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Bridge bashing


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They are available but aren't cheap so many folk do with a car one instead.  I had an app for my phone that I could use for the coach and it never got me into any problems.

 

Ah yes.

 

Had fun in a rail replacement bus once. Driver had no idea of the route. Car satnav was available but wasn't really geared up for something the size of a bus....and didn't have any kind of "multi-stop" facility so had to be reprogrammed at each station, often deciding on a U-turn which wasn't very easy.

 

(For extra fun, there was nowhere to power it on the bus so it had to go in a car belonging to someone else from the bus company which went ahead with the bus following! Once I got close enough to home to know my way around I took over...until it got to my station).

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I thought this was going to be a thread about dissing bridges   :jester:

 

If any bridge is replaced I wouldn't imagine it would get planning permission from the council or Network rail if it introduced a low structure where there wasn't before - lorries aren't getting smaller.

 

I thought it was a thread about discussing modifying the Triang/Hornby brick viaduct..........  

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O/T - dropping into driving standards territory. Far more "experienced drivers" would fail a current day theory test. I once carried out a test on thirty 50-80 year olds. Only 1 got the required percentage pass and that was only because he had just taken his minibus MIDAS test and been studying the Highway Code

Thats because I dont consider a lorry approaching me on the correct side of the road to be a hazard unlike the hazard perception test, just as I dont consider a car approaching me on the correct side of the road, which apparently isnt a hazard.

 

How is a lorry being driven correctly on the correct side of the road a hazard?

Edited by royaloak
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For a while during the 1970s I lived close to the bridge over Chertsey Lane, Staines. As I had an interest in trains, and a camera, I was asked by the local residents to record the various bridge strikes to help their campaign for a pedestrian tunnel (which has never happened). The headroom was about 13ft 3in at the time but it had progressively lost 3in every time the road was resurfaced. This was one of the worst incidents that I photographed. The jib of the crane has swung round and taken out some of the brickwork on the left-side pier. A 25mph TSR was put in place. A night-time strike from the opposite direction peeled the metal lower flange off the girder and resulted in several new layers of metal being riveted in place. The last time I looked, a few years ago, that repair was still exactly the same. More recently, after the establishment of Thorpe Park, the bridge was hit by buses taking kids to the park, so elaborate fenders have been built across the road ahead of the bridge. At first, one of these had a serrated edge which would have done horrific damage to anything and anyone that hit it. Someone saw sense and torched off the serrations before they could do any harm. (CJL)

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For a while during the 1970s I lived close to the bridge over Chertsey Lane, Staines. As I had an interest in trains, and a camera, I was asked by the local residents to record the various bridge strikes to help their campaign for a pedestrian tunnel (which has never happened). The headroom was about 13ft 3in at the time but it had progressively lost 3in every time the road was resurfaced. This was one of the worst incidents that I photographed. The jib of the crane has swung round and taken out some of the brickwork on the left-side pier. A 25mph TSR was put in place. A night-time strike from the opposite direction peeled the metal lower flange off the girder and resulted in several new layers of metal being riveted in place. The last time I looked, a few years ago, that repair was still exactly the same. More recently, after the establishment of Thorpe Park, the bridge was hit by buses taking kids to the park, so elaborate fenders have been built across the road ahead of the bridge. At first, one of these had a serrated edge which would have done horrific damage to anything and anyone that hit it. Someone saw sense and torched off the serrations before they could do any harm. (CJL)

 

A mark two Cortina - that takes me back. I bought one as my first car in 1973 and then spent the next two years trying to stop it going rusty. I lost.

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I find that the biggest offenders these days are the white van man that do the deliveries for the likes of Amazon. I had a week where the bridge by the box (8 foot high) was hit by three different drivers. The most hauling thing about this is that they then came up to the level crossing to wait. Did they tell me they had hit it? Did they b*ggery. I took great delight it taking their registrations and then reporting the bashes.

Fortunately the bridge concerned has a light vehicle dispensation on it (which means that trains can run normally if hit by a transit sized vehicle or less, as long as it's not wedged or on fire. The bridge itself is built like a brick outhouse) so delay to the railway is small.

But it does make you wonder what else these drivers do and don't report...

 

Andy g

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If you've ever watched Russian dash-cam videos on You Tube, then Be Afraid.

 

Be VERY Afraid. :nono:

No need for that, we just go and watch a few of idiots driving HGVs round the Peak District. 60mph+ downhill on narrow single carriageway roads is common, as are holes in the walls. Some years ago I asked the police why they didn't get booked the reply from the Inspector was that it was too dangerous for his men to go on to the road to do speed checks.
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or the bridge moved  -  well trees frequently jump out in front of drivers who hit them    :scratchhead:

There is a major bridge in Melbourne called the West Gate Bridge - similar in design to the Erskine Bridge in Glasgow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Gate_Bridge

 

It carries enormous volumes of traffic on its 5 lanes each way. However it is expected to be a problem in the future as container ships get larger. The height above water, will cause problems. At 58 metres, they are talking of clearance problems!

 

Surely the easiest solution, is to lower the Yarra River at that point!

 

:jester:

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No need for that, we just go and watch a few of idiots driving HGVs round the Peak District. 60mph+ downhill on narrow single carriageway roads is common, as are holes in the walls. Some years ago I asked the police why they didn't get booked the reply from the Inspector was that it was too dangerous for his men to go on to the road to do speed checks.

What's wrong with remote cameras?

Seen that on the M6 where the Fuzz put a camera on an over bridge but move the car/van back so it's not readily visible to traffic.

Some forces however seem to like to have the car readily visible so that the traffic actually slows down, rather than getting lots of fines.

 

Keith

Edited by melmerby
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Thats because I dont consider a lorry approaching me on the correct side of the road to be a hazard unlike the hazard perception test, just as I dont consider a car approaching me on the correct side of the road, which apparently isnt a hazard.

 

How is a lorry being driven correctly on the correct side of the road a hazard?

If you do the IAM test, you get taught that anything on the roads is potentially a hazard, & should be regarded as such. Anything could happen. The driver could lose control & swerve at you. His brakes could fail. Especially if it's a slow lorry, another vehicle could try to overtake it from behind, and steer into your path. If you treat it as a hazard waiting to happen, you are likely to be that much more able to react.

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The bridge on the A41 going from Bicester to Aylesbury has had to have warning lights ,detetectors etc for a long time now and it seems to be working also there are road signs well away from it warning of height restrictions .But I have seen lorries having to stop and turn are people total idiots?

Yes. There are some amazingly stupid people out there.

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Why is there this underlying view that drivers "get away with" this sort of thing? Any serious incident that is the driver's fault has been a sackable offence at the companies I've worked at, & their name will be noted so they aren't allowed back as an Agency driver either. A bridge strike does carry a charge of driving without due care & attention, or even dangerous driving if other people are involved.

Of course, the stereotype view of HGV drivers as "total idiots" etc does nothing for the image of the job; nor does the pay on offer reflect the real responsibilities of it - "you just sit there & steer" is a common view. So often it isn't a job people want to do or care much about.

No wonder there is a shortage of around 40,000 - 60,000 drivers in the UK, & the gap is being plugged by drivers from Eastern Europe.

If you've ever watched Russian dash-cam videos on You Tube, then Be Afraid.

 

Be VERY Afraid. :nono:

I have to say, as a cyclist & car driver, some of the best drivers on the roads are lorry drivers, followed closely by bus drivers. Of course there are total idiots aomngst them, but there are idiots in every level, section & strata of society.

I had more problems as a cyclist with other cyclists than I did with drivers. Don't get me started about the idiots who insist on cycling at night with no lights & no high vis, then try to blame you for nearly running into them. Are people total idiots? Some of them, yes.

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So is the height of lorries marked when it is empty or full?

Is there a system for measuring the maximum height on the spot after loading/unloading?

 

Modern trucks and trailers tend to be the same height loaded or empty nowadays . They have load sensing valves which automatically adjust ride height and braking systems .

 

Rgs

 

Mike b

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There is a major bridge in Melbourne called the West Gate Bridge - similar in design to the Erskine Bridge in Glasgow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Gate_Bridge

 

It carries enormous volumes of traffic on its 5 lanes each way. However it is expected to be a problem in the future as container ships get larger. The height above water, will cause problems. At 58 metres, they are talking of clearance problems!

 

Surely the easiest solution, is to lower the Yarra River at that point!

 

:jester:

 

there are a couple of low bridges around Melbourne's rail system where there are frequent strikes. One is at Dynon. A friend tells the story of one such hit by a container lorry, which got wedged under the bridge. The driver swore that he had been under the bridges many times in the past with no incidents. the difference this particular time was that there were two C class diesel locomotives, each weighing approximately 135 tons, sitting on the bridge at the time! The deflection under their weight made all the difference.

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An earlier post mentioned lorry drivers 'getting away with it' after bridge strikes

 

I see the driver who demolished a pedestrian bridge on the M20's been 'sentenced' to 12 months, suspended for 2 years, so basically nothing as he's unlikely to get the chance to do that again!

Even though, even the judge said it was "remarkable" no-one was killed as a result.

Presumably, someone will have to be actually killed before the courts take this issue seriously

 

A motor-cyclist broke three ribs puting bike on it's side to try to stop

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An earlier post mentioned lorry drivers 'getting away with it' after bridge strikes

 

I see the driver who demolished a pedestrian bridge on the M20's been 'sentenced' to 12 months, suspended for 2 years, so basically nothing as he's unlikely to get the chance to do that again!

Even though, even the judge said it was "remarkable" no-one was killed as a result.

Presumably, someone will have to be actually killed before the courts take this issue seriously

 

A motor-cyclist broke three ribs puting bike on it's side to try to stop

 

Said motorcyclist should learn how to brake effectively while upright. "Laying it down" hasn't been the most effective stopping option for several decades now.

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If you do the IAM test, you get taught that anything on the roads is potentially a hazard, & should be regarded as such. Anything could happen. The driver could lose control & swerve at you. His brakes could fail. Especially if it's a slow lorry, another vehicle could try to overtake it from behind, and steer into your path. If you treat it as a hazard waiting to happen, you are likely to be that much more able to react.

 

That's what my dad said to me when I was learning back in 1970. Expect everyone to be a complete idiot - trouble is these days he is increasingly correct.

 

Brit15

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If you do the IAM test, you get taught that anything on the roads is potentially a hazard, & should be regarded as such. Anything could happen. The driver could lose control & swerve at you. His brakes could fail. Especially if it's a slow lorry, another vehicle could try to overtake it from behind, and steer into your path. If you treat it as a hazard waiting to happen, you are likely to be that much more able to react.

If you're prepared for everything that could happen you won't be able to move, and you need to keep your concentration where it's needed, and not at too high a level all the time, because maintaining high levels of concentration for long is very tiring. You should certainly have an awareness of what's going on around you but that's not quite the same thing. If you treat everything as a hazard waiting to happen, trying to plan for the worst-case scenario, you're more likely to not be directing your concentration towards where it's most needed.

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A mark two Cortina - that takes me back. I bought one as my first car in 1973 and then spent the next two years trying to stop it going rusty. I lost.

Wasn't that fundamental to Ford's/British Leyland's/Vauxhall's business case?

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If you're prepared for everything that could happen you won't be able to move, and you need to keep your concentration where it's needed, and not at too high a level all the time, because maintaining high levels of concentration for long is very tiring. You should certainly have an awareness of what's going on around you but that's not quite the same thing. If you treat everything as a hazard waiting to happen, trying to plan for the worst-case scenario, you're more likely to not be directing your concentration towards where it's most needed.

Veering off OT now towards the bad driving thread I guess but it is all related and as the question has been asked.

 

There is a big divide between expecting something to jump out at you from every blade of grass and just watching the front of your bonnet.  Hazard perception is all about recognising there is something there and then you are ready to deal with it.  An experienced switched on driver will recognise something and still manage to move forward without it affecting their concentration.  An inexperienced or poor driver will not see it in the first place so won't have as good a chance to react should they need to.

 

I would like to think that I am a good driver (don't we all?)  I have had plenty of training over the years with the Police, being a motorcycle rider instructor up to Advanced and in recent years taken three full DSA driving tests for Public Transport and a DSA course to be an ADI.  Included in most of them was the Hazard Perception test and I am the first to admit I found it difficult.  Why?  Well because I would look at the video see something and not even consider it to be a hazard because I had identified it and tucked it away very early on and was looking for more serious stuff that could happen.  That is wrong they want you to press the button at every hazard BUT if you press it too often you can fail because they consider you are doing it randomly to improve your score.

 

If I then look at the PCV training I did and what I believe is taught in cars these days I have an issue with the constant checking your mirrors that they seem to insist upon.  To such an extent where I believe they are distracting the pupil from looking where the real danger is i.e. in front of you.  All the time I was being asked to look in my mirror on a town road where there was very little realistic chance of being overtaken whilst driving a coach I could have easily missed a small child running out in between the many pared cars.  I commented on this but was told this is what the DSA (or whatever it is called now) wanted and to not do so was to fail.

 

Oh and bear in mind we are talking about checking three mirrors each time here!

 

Concentration is vital when we are driving and we can all recall an incident where we or others have come unstuck in some way minor or worse.  Prioritising that concentration is the key and that is where the skills of Advanced Teaching are.

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What's wrong with remote cameras?

Seen that on the M6 where the Fuzz put a camera on an over bridge but move the car/van back so it's not readily visible to traffic.

Some forces however seem to like to have the car readily visible so that the traffic actually slows down, rather than getting lots of fines.

 

Keith

That isn't practical on the roads in question as there aren't any bridges and nowhere suitably concealed to catch the drivers out. My son has all of the speed recording gear for his business We sat in a layby on the A628 Woodhead Pass one afternoon in a plain car but wearing hi-vis and with a speed camera visible on the dashboard. First two lorries passed at over 50mph then all the rest crept through at about 35mph. The wonders of instant mobile communications.

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50mph for a lorry (road and type dependent) may not be illegal although you do say over 50.

 

http://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/changes-and-answers/new-higher-speed-limits-for-lorries-in-england-and-wales

 

There is also a chance to try the Theory test on there as well but without the Hazard Perception test.  Anyone brave enough to have a go and reveal their score?

 

http://theory.1driver.co.uk/driving-test-by-DSA/free-demo-test

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