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New ESU Dynamic Brake Feature





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#1 two tone green

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 10:15

I managed to get hold of an updated projected from South West Digital loaded onto my O gauge Jinty that has the new ESU Dynamic brake feature on it that acts like a real brake.
 
Reduce the throttle to zero and touch the function key and the loco bakes, take your finger off and the loco coasts. It works well and works via a combination of CV's one of which is a new one introduced yesterday by an ESU update.
 
This is not scale specific nor do you need a sound decoder as its on the Lok Pilots as well. You juts need the updated firmware loaded by the Lok Progrmmer for those who have it or of course via your decoder supplier.
 
Here is a short video of what its like. Sorry about the jerkiness of it but trying to hold the camera as well as control the loco.


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#2 pauliebanger

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 12:36

What a marvelous idea -  we've had working brakes on ZIMO decoders for the last 3 years. LOL.

 

(Standard features on Minerva Models' Peckett, Victory and Pannier, Little Loco Company Class 15 plus RAIL EXCLUSIVE's Nothern Belle 47s and Suttons Locomotive Workshop Class 24, Graham Farish Castle Class).

 

Nice to see it's catching on. 

 

You'll get a better coasting effect with a high value in CV4

 

Is the effect progressive?

 

Does it work on non-sound ESU decoders so that sound and non-sound can be consisted?

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul


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#3 John K

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 12:41

Nice to see ESU playing catch-up.

John



#4 two tone green

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 15:25

Hi Paul, yes it works with non sound decoders.

 

As for CV values , depending which has the higher value  it can be set either way depending what the end user wants.

 

If the end user wants no 'safe mode' and wants to use the brake feature all the time using a momentary function key that is available as well again depending which way the CV's are set  

 

All tastes it seems are catered for.

 

As for playing catch up John, Zimo may not be able to come January :jester:


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#5 pauliebanger

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 18:38

Sounds like an interesting development.

 

I guess all end users are winners eventually as new features are developed by one or the other, pushing further the realism which can be achieved.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul


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#6 PaulRhB

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 18:42

So this is in new uploaded projects or can an existing project be updated without affecting the sound files?

#7 two tone green

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 19:54

If you have a Lok Programmer and able to update the firmware in the decoder it’s a user selectable feature. New docoders should have it on as long as your supplier is using the latest firmware.

Once the firmware is updated just adjust the CV’s 4 and 179 accordingly and that’s it. Find some one with a Lok Programmer, update the firmware and enjoy. Simple.

It’s not embedded in the project so very much an end user function. You may have to tweak the CV affecting break sound threshold to make sure brake sounds match the braking but that’s easy as well.

#8 PaulRhB

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 20:15

Thanks I have the lokprogrammer but I was just curious if it affected the soundfile with a major update.
Just need to remember which locos are v4's ;)

#9 two tone green

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 20:24

It’s quite a small update really. Read the release notes that download along side the firmware update.

Forgot, you need to allocate a function key to the brake function but it’s easy using the Lok Programmer.

Edited by two tone green, 21 December 2017 - 20:26 .


#10 two tone green

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 20:44

Just found this on the South West Digital web site news page that may help understand it better

http://www.southwest...design news.htm

#11 Nigelcliffe

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 22:03

Scratching my head, didn't the old V3.5 have a similar feature, though not as many parameters which could be set ?

 

And, as for originality on other brands, its been a standard feature on Soundtraxx for ages, probably ten years if not more.  

 

 

 

- Nigel



#12 pauliebanger

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 22:27

Yes there was a thing they called dyamic brake, I think, which was basically a facility to halve the value in CV4 which could be assigned to an F key.

 

Zimo had something very similar from inception with CV156, but neither of these, nor the Soundtraxx equivalent operate in the same way as the current ZIMO system or what Two Tone has described for SWD's scheme for ESU.

 

As the i-phone has demonstrated, it's not always originality which is key, but how it is deployed and how well it achieves what it sets out to do.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul



#13 pauliebanger

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 22:35

Just found this on the South West Digital web site news page that may help understand it better

http://www.southwest...design news.htm

 

Thanks for this link.

 

Had a look at this and it appears that two momentum values are used, one set in CV4 and a lower one set by CV179. It is possible to toggle between the two manually to produce a braking effect. Or to use the lower one to temporarily defeat the value in CV4 for 'failsafe' braking.

 

Have I understood this correctly?

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul



#14 two tone green

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 10:27

In fail safe mode with the function off it uses CV4 as normal. Turn the function on and CV179 takes over allowing the loco to coast as the value set in it is very high. So by turning the throttle to zero and then turning the function off and back on you toggle between CV179 high value to CV4 low value so by braking. The default setting for the function key in this situation is push on push off,

If you set it up the other way around, pro driver mode if you want then CV4 is set high, CV179 low and the function key set to momentary. You really do need to use the brake function as the loco will coast after the throttle is set to zero and just run on and potentially hit something or fall off the end of the layout. So as you dab the brake function key on and off you toggle between high CV4 and low CV179.

The failsafe mode is the delivered option with the function key off so it’s in the normal state using a low CV4 so people who are unsure what the function is can get on and play straight out of the box but once used to things either use the new function as is or change over to pro driver mode.

The function is on F9 so people who only have a low range of F keys can enjoy it as well.

I hope this makes sense. It certainly works well.

Edited by two tone green, 22 December 2017 - 10:29 .


#15 pauliebanger

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 11:06

Thanks for the clarification - I mistakenly understood 'failsafe' to mean 'brakes always active' not 'brakes inoperative'. Curious choice of terminology, but once understood not much of an issue.

 

As you said, all tastes catered for. The Pro Driver mode gets closest to how the ZIMO works, so it is a worthwhile upgrade for ESU users.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul



#16 wiggy1

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 18:15

Without wishing to split hairs, shouldn't this be called an independent brake rather than a dynamic brake?

A dynamic brake uses the reversal of the generator to slow a Diesel locomotive down.

I think everyone gets the idea and the programmer is using the 'Dynamic Braking' function to achieve this or was in the later programmer.

Just my opinion.

 

Wiggy.



#17 PaulRhB

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 18:20

In real terms yes but no doubt they were thinking it was 'dynamic' in buzzword terms ;)
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#18 HLT 0109

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 20:39

In fail safe mode with the function off it uses CV4 as normal. Turn the function on and CV179 takes over allowing the loco to coast as the value set in it is very high. So by turning the throttle to zero and then turning the function off and back on you toggle between CV179 high value to CV4 low value so by braking. The default setting for the function key in this situation is push on push off,

If you set it up the other way around, pro driver mode if you want then CV4 is set high, CV179 low and the function key set to momentary. You really do need to use the brake function as the loco will coast after the throttle is set to zero and just run on and potentially hit something or fall off the end of the layout. So as you dab the brake function key on and off you toggle between high CV4 and low CV179.

The failsafe mode is the delivered option with the function key off so it’s in the normal state using a low CV4 so people who are unsure what the function is can get on and play straight out of the box but once used to things either use the new function as is or change over to pro driver mode.

The function is on F9 so people who only have a low range of F keys can enjoy it as well.

I hope this makes sense. It certainly works well.

This looks like an interesting development where a loco is used both on its own and in a consist.  I have a "Paul Chetter" 9F used in both roles and do not use the dynamic brake function because of the hassle of changing CVs between each type of operation.  To have the facility available on a single function key would be very nice!

 

Harold.



#19 pauliebanger

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 10:02

This looks like an interesting development where a loco is used both on its own and in a consist.  I have a "Paul Chetter" 9F used in both roles and do not use the dynamic brake function because of the hassle of changing CVs between each type of operation.  To have the facility available on a single function key would be very nice!

 

Harold.

 

Harold.

 

I don't understand your point.

 

There is no need to change CVs for the Brake Function to work in any mode in the 9F or indeed any other of my projects.

 

Where does it say such a thing in the User Notes?

 

If you could explain why you believe CV changes are required, I might be able to assist you.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul



#20 HLT 0109

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 21:00

Paul,

 

I use the 9F in a consist with locos controlled by other sound chips, so i have a relatively low value set in CV4.  If I want to use the dynamic brake function when running the 9F alone, I have to put a very high valuie into CV4 - and remeber/record what value I need to speed-match the rest of the consist.  I guess that's not a great problem - or is there something I have missed?

 

Thanks,

Harold.









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