Sandy's lock down work bench.

[Sandy Harper]

A test build, sort of, of a redesigned kit soon to be released.

 

More details to follow

 

Sandy

Edited October 25, 2018 by Sandy Harper

[david.hill64]

Intriguing!

[Sandy Harper]

This Stanier Class 3 tank was originally drawn by Mike Williams and may, in the distant past,  have been marketed under his College Models label but I am not 100% sure about that.

 

The etching tool and casting moulds passed to Walsworth Models some time ago, along with some spare etches and castings, but other priorities meant that the project languished at the back of Johns workshop until recently.

 

I offered to resurrect the model, do a test build, and write a set of instructions which were not included in the original transfer from Mike. If there were any to begin with?

 

The N/S etchings that I have are well etched and I have managed to identify most of them but, there are still a few that are a mystery to me that I hope will become apparent as the build progresses.

 

As this is effectively a  'test build' I will not attempt to introduce any 'modifications', that I would normally consider if it was my own model, so it will have fixed axle bearings, and the motor/gearbox will drive the centre axle, as designed. I always prefer to drive the rear axle on tank engines and would need a motor/gearbox combination with a 90 degree drive to avoid it protruding into the cab space. It would also require the spacers to be modified. All for another time!

 

No 'upgrades' will be sought to replace castings and I will attempt to make them all fit and look the part. It is obvious that the casting masters are from another age and would probably be considered as 'rough' when compared to modern day items and will require a little bit of TLC by the builder. If they are completely unusable then John will upgrade them.

 

As per usual I started with the rods. They were nicely etched and consisted of 12 parts to make up jointed rods with a prototypical forked joint. Not really required for fixed axle bearings but I did them anyway to see how they came out.  The usual method of construction was employed and using a selection of files, followed by some wet and dry, to obtain a neat finish. The crank pin holes need drilling out to take Slaters crank pin bearings. 

 

The Hobby Holidays jig was set up using the rods and the prepared chassis sides were offered up and the axle bearings soldered in. The centre axle bearing hole in the chassis side need a few thou' removing from one side to allow the bearings to fit neatly. I suspect that this slight discrepancy was due to having  jointed rods, rather than fixed.

 

The not insignificant spacers, front and rear, were soldered to opposite sides of the chassis and the other sides soldered once the chassis was back in the jig. This resulted in a very square chassis. The intermediate spacers were then fitted which slotted neatly into the half etched locating grooves on the inside of the chassis and soldered. All in all a very neat chassis design that even without a jig you would be hard pressed to get wrong!

 

The last job is to solder 6BA nuts over the inside of the fold up pony truck cross members before you solder them into their grooves. If you forget, they are a h*ll of a job to get out again!!

 

The result is a very neat and square chassis that runs very freely.

 

I tidied up the brake hanger/shoe castings and the brake hanger pivots. The hole in the chassis side for the pivot is overly large for the cast spigot on the back of the pivot casting. As I was initially concerned about clearance between the casting and the wheel tread, I fixed the pivot to the furthest point away from the wheel that I could. However, after refitting the wheels and studying the photographs I think I was too generous with my clearance allowance and I think I can afford to move the brake pivot casting a little bit nearer the wheels, which, in turn,  will bring the brake shoes closer to the wheel rims.

 

So far so good!

 

 

 

 

Regards

Sandy

 

 

Edited December 28, 2017 by Sandy Harper

[Stanley Melrose]

Is this kit for 7mm or 4mm?

 

Stan

[davefrk]

I was just about to ask that....

Sounds like 7mm though and the wheels look like Slaters..

 

Dave Franks.

[Sandy Harper]

I was just about to ask that....

Sounds like 7mm though and the wheels look like Slaters..

 

Dave Franks.

Woops! Forgot to put the scale in the title. Sorry.

Yes, it is 7mm F/S.

Regards

Sandy

Edited December 28, 2017 by Sandy Harper

[Sandy Harper]

Three drill bits later, and a lot of sweat and profane language, I have managed to get the slide bars on this afternoon! They were cast in Nickle Silver and as hard as granite with no hole cast for the piston rod. In retrospect, and if I build another one, I will get them glowing red red first to try and soften them. 

 

 

Regards

 

Sandy

 

 

[Blandford1969]

An interesting thread. I got a photocopy of Mikes etchings a few years ago to help with drawings. The only thing I noted was that the drawings I saw did not represent the rivet details at the bunker on the fireman's side was out as there is a diagonal line.

 

Is there any chance you might reduce the etchings only to 4mm?

 

Really look forward to watching this develop.

[PAD]

Hi Sandy,

First the  Ace kit now  College models. It seems  you  have  moved on from self flagellation to something less pleasurable!

 

I built the College Ivatt 4F some  years  ago and took no pleasure  at all from the  experience. The castings were all brass and appalling.  They took so much filing to get them something like  useable, that my hands ached after every session. If I had not  been building  it for  my brother  it  would have  gone  into the  bin. To be  honest it did make  a  nice  model and  I have seen some  good  ones by other  builders over the  years, but  the  amount  of  effort required was unbelievable.

 

I hope this is not as bad and after what you did with the  Ace A3,  I'm sure that a fine model will result. Look forward to watching your progress.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Sandy Harper]

Thanks Peter. I am under no illusions what to expect but it is a 'test build', so no holds barred. To be fair, the rest of the castings don't look so bad. They are in brass and may have been done by a different caster but the slide bars  in N/S were a right pain.

 

Happy New Year to you.

Sandy

[WilliamsModels]

May I please make readers aware that I am Mike Williams of WilliamsModels (Gauge 3) and nothing whatever to do with Mike Williams of College Models, latterly Agenoria.  Having read some of the remarks here I feel I need to make that clear!

 

Sorry to hi-jack your thread.

 

Mike

[Sandy Harper]

The holiday period and the period after, coincided with trips to the Welsh coast, Germany and Northern Scotland hence very little modelling to report.

 

However I have eventually beaten the valve gear into submission and have now stripped it down again for chassis painting, so no photographs at present.

 

Further posts when I have something interesting to photograph.

 

Regards

Sandy

[Sandy Harper]

 

I have managed to put the pony trucks together after a bit of head scratching but I'm not there yet. There are serious issues with clearances.

 

The castings act as bearings for the axle so they need to be reamed out to take the 3/16" axle and then fitted to the frame , square and in line.

 

 

 

 

Having got the bogie together I opened the Slaters wheel pack!

 

 

Fortunately it is only a light surface rust and a spin up in the drill, and a wipe with a 3M scotch pad, soon brought it back to bright and shiny!

 

 

 

After fitting to the chassis it is apparent that clearances are going to be a big issue. I haven't yet got the 'angle of dangle' quite right but even that is not going to help. Some serious chassis cutting needed me thinks!

 

 

 

I identified earlier that clearance behind the crosshead was also going to be an issue and this is how I solved it using the time honoured method of replacing the 12BA crank pin bolt with a 10BA one and cutting a thread inside the crank bearing. The two V cut slots are so that I can use a 'Gibson' wheel nut spanner to tighten the bearing. There are other methods I have seen used.

 

 

 

REgards

Sandy

 

 

 

[Sandy Harper]

Clearance issues are now almost resolved by pairing back the top of the cast spring units and a slight reprofiling of the chassis cutouts above the pony trucks.

 

I also set to with the riveter to push out the rivets on the tank sides before bending them where they form one side of the cab opening and the front of the tanks. The sides were then soldered to the footplate. 

 

 

 

 

Regards

Sandy

 

 

[Sandy Harper]

Continuing on with the  body work. It has not been exactly straightforward. Having attached the  main side tanks I moved onto the rear bunker area. The etch is in one part and folded at the rear corners. However, when I bent it up I found that is ended up about 1mm too wide across the rear foot plate. There are half etched lines on the footplate to assist with the location. My solution was to 'break' the etch into three and file back the rear vertical edges of the bunker until it fitted neatly into the half etched line. The sides of the bunker were treated the same way, using the same method, to make a neat butt joint at the rear corners.

The rear of the cab, or front of bunker, is designed with a tab and slot to help with location but, the slots are in the wrong place in the footplate so I removed the tabs and fitted it in the correct location.

 

The inside of the cab was a bit sparse so I added some detail to represent the access doors to the bunker and a hand brake handle.

 

The other issue was that the floor, if fitted as designed, fouled the rear wheel flanges so I raised the floor by about 2mm to gain the clearance needed.

 

Because the floor was raised, the front of the cab needed a couple of mm's taking of the bottom before fitting it to the side tanks.

 

 

If anyone knows what fits in the two large circular holes, either side of the bunker door, are for I would be grateful?

 

 

 

This shows the small length of scrap etch used to raise the cab floor.

 

Regards

Sandy

[Michael Edge]

The holes are where the water pickup comes should be - if you have any of course.

[Sandy Harper]

The holes are where the water pickup comes should be - if you have any of course.

Thanks for that Michael. I don't suppose you have a photograph by any chance?

 

Regards

Sandy

[Blandford1969]

HI Sandy,

 

The build is interesting. Decent photos of the inside of the cab are not very common. I can point you in the direction of two of 40146

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A4-Gloss-Print-Photo-Steam-Train-40146-Interior-1962-Vintage-Bw/280970111689?hash=item416b1faac9:m:mSZrWWeVFT32sZq3F4pFwng

 

and

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A4-Gloss-Print-Photo-Steam-Train-40146-Interior-1962-Vintage-Bw/280970111749?hash=item416b1fab05:m:mYn7THoonOi-pi1dnBbJS-g

 

In terms of the bunker the only photo I have ever seen was originally in a Bylines and later appeared on Western Thunder (I hope I will not be excommunicated for suggesting there is anything else bar RMweb, lol) on a thread by one of my friends

 

http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/a-west-midlands-works.3825/page-4

 

As you may know I have been working on drawings based on drawings from various sources, which are now at long last nearly finished. The key bits for you for now are

 

The one with the cab shields is specifically related to engines based in Scotland and was a modification on a small number of engines. If you look at the other thread on the Stanier 2-6-2 I have worked on a list of publicly available photos of the class as some which had keyholes lost them, a smaller number gained them, there were changes to the vents and some had an additional strengthening strip on the back of the bunker (I have not documented this yet)

 

Strictly speaking the rear pony truck is a different shape to the front one, but who knows on a model.

 

Best wishes

 

Duncan

[N15class]

Interesting build sandy. I built a college models Ivatt 2MT which was not to bad to do. Unlike the 4MT which I've heard was a nightmare.

 

will follow with interest.

[Blandford1969]

I should have said I have not seen any evidence of water pick up on any of the NRM drawings which I have seen.

[Michael Edge]

Thanks for that Michael. I don't suppose you have a photograph by any chance?

 

Regards

Sandy

They don't appear to have ever been fitted with water scoops but the holes in your etch are where they would have been.

[Sandy Harper]

HI Sandy,

 

The build is interesting. Decent photos of the inside of the cab are not very common. I can point you in the direction of two of 40146

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A4-Gloss-Print-Photo-Steam-Train-40146-Interior-1962-Vintage-Bw/280970111689?hash=item416b1faac9:m:mSZrWWeVFT32sZq3F4pFwng

 

and

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A4-Gloss-Print-Photo-Steam-Train-40146-Interior-1962-Vintage-Bw/280970111749?hash=item416b1fab05:m:mYn7THoonOi-pi1dnBbJS-g

 

In terms of the bunker the only photo I have ever seen was originally in a Bylines and later appeared on Western Thunder (I hope I will not be excommunicated for suggesting there is anything else bar RMweb, lol) on a thread by one of my friends

 

http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/a-west-midlands-works.3825/page-4

 

As you may know I have been working on drawings based on drawings from various sources, which are now at long last nearly finished. The key bits for you for now are

drw1.jpg

drw2.jpg

drw3.jpg

 

The one with the cab shields is specifically related to engines based in Scotland and was a modification on a small number of engines. If you look at the other thread on the Stanier 2-6-2 I have worked on a list of publicly available photos of the class as some which had keyholes lost them, a smaller number gained them, there were changes to the vents and some had an additional strengthening strip on the back of the bunker (I have not documented this yet)

 

Strictly speaking the rear pony truck is a different shape to the front one, but who knows on a model.

 

Best wishes

 

Duncan

Terrific stuff Duncan and nicely detailed drawings but most annoying being slightly out of focus. I have discovered that I need to reposition my handbrake, It was a best guess anyway. Thanks also for the links to the other photos. Excellent.

 

Kind regards

Sandy

[Blandford1969]

Terrific stuff Duncan and nicely detailed drawings but most annoying being slightly out of focus. I have discovered that I need to reposition my handbrake, It was a best guess anyway. Thanks also for the links to the other photos. Excellent.

 

Kind regards

Sandy

HI Sandy I will do a proper scan later this evening. I have still not quite finished the drawings, you may have spied the return crank rod and eccentric are missing, along with a view of the fireman's side bunker, which as you probably know has a difference in the riveting.

 

Best wishes

Duncan

[Marshall5]

I should have said I have not seen any evidence of water pick up on any of the NRM drawings which I have seen.

I had the opportunity, today, to ask a friend who used to be a fireman at Newton Heath and regularly fired Stanier class 3 & 4 tanks. He was certain that the class 3's never had water pick up gear fitted unlike the class 4's which had a bidirectional scoop.  He also stated that, by the early 60's, most of the 2-6-4T's he worked on had had the gear removed.

Ray.

[Sandy Harper]

Moving on!

 

Having completed all the beading, that was a big job!! I had a go at rolling up the boiler and smoke box yesterday. It was all going swimmingly until I tried to attach the coned boiler to the smokebox. Instead of it sloping up towards the firebox, it sloped down.  Sumit wrong here me thinks. So, back to the photocopy of the etch I went and, there it was, a light bulb moment.   The etch for the boiler front had a very slight convex shape to it whereas  it should have had a concave shape   Take it apart, reshape and resolder. Phew, that's better. The other end, the bit  that abuts the firebox , of course , also needed adjusting. In the end all was well.

 

Putting the parts together was a little tricky as there are no reference marks to help  with aligning it up apart from the  inverted 'U'  shape of rivets where the firebox fits against the front of the cab. Small dabs of solder were used to hold the bits in place and make any realignment easier.

 

Fortunately I remembered, before soldering it all up, that there were a number of washout plugs that needed to be fitted to the boiler and firebox and needed to be soldered from the inside to make a neat job.   The final job of the day was to fit the smoke box door casting.

 

 

 

Regards

Sandy