Godstone Road

[Lacathedrale]

Thanks to the wonderful help in this thread: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/129304-cementaggregate-business-in-the-80s-90s-and-a-some-br-questions/ I think I have enough to go on to come up with a fully fledged plan for my first go at a layout as an adult. It sounds silly to say that out loud but my previous sophomore efforts were as a teenager or a child; but this time I think I've got a cracker.

 

Purley's difficult gestation ended in the 20th Century with the quad-tracking of the mainline to Brighton and double tracking of the branches nearby. A large engine shed was built by the SE&CR and an impressive open goods yard was set up on the east side of the station, dealing almost exclusively with coal and aggregates. As the freight yard itself came out of use the sidings were sold to private owners. In the 1980's Charringtons was being supplied with coal (presumably for the waterworks and some odd domestic use) and Marinex was recieving aggregate dredged from the Thames up in Cliffe/Angerstein Wharf. While the coal dealer has gone, the yard still exists today. 

 

Layout Plan

This is the layout plan as envisaged, all 5' of it, with a 3'6" visible area. I wanted it to fit into the Diamond Jubliee Layout Challenge, but the 600mm length is just too small for me without building very complicated pointwork which I'm trying to avoid at this early stage!  Here's a render:

 

Some visualisations:

Looking across to the conveyor equipment building: https://i.imgur.com/LBLds1P.png

Looking along the tracks towards the office: https://i.imgur.com/aFv7O2o.png

 

Description

From left to right, there is the building housing the conveyor equipment (the rear track may have the under-track conveyor modelled if I'm feeling brave!) and the distribution conveyor above. Loads of aggregate are kept in bins behind a wall made of old sleepers (no doubt from the now deceased yard) and are painted on to the backscene. The second yellow section is the movable arm of the conveyor and some more substantial concrete bins which butt directly on to the track area. Charringtons the coal merchant is nowhere to be seen on the current layout, so I have hypothesised an additional spur with an under-track chute and conveyor leading to the rear-right building. Nowadays it looks something like this: https://i.imgur.com/YsYDEtU.jpg but I believe is aggregate related rather than being anything to do with the old coal loader - I'll use for the latter however, because it's a unique design and something I can model effectively. The ochre coloured building is a substantial two storey office of the aggregate firm. Closest to the platform is an engineers siding, and directly infront of that is the end of the station platform. There are hoardings there I'll use to cover up the rather abrupt end

 

Construction

I cannot think of any reason why I should make the fiddle yard detachable or hinge, given the meagre length of the layout, as such it will be constructed as a single integrated unit of 6mm ply, backscene will be 3mm hardboard. The fiddle yard, such as it is - will be cassette based using aluminimum angle. Once I'm happy with the scenics and track laying I'll be fitting a fascia to bring the view down to track level. Broadly speaking I'm expecting it to go together like so: 

 

Gauge, Scale and Standards

I will be building this layout to 2mmFS (my first time trying to lay a whole layout by hand instead of just a solitary turnout) and thus technically 1:152. My scratchbuilds will be to this scale and anything from the 2mm Society, but realistically there's not alot in it! Turnouts will be (for now) Easitrac B6 and Easitrac flex.

 

Control

Control will be via my little Hornby trainset controller while I'm testing, and then via DCC at some point. I want to try some automation out (although I do admit with a cassette fiddle-yard I'm limited basically to shuttling a loco back and forth!) and get some sound in there.

 

Era, Stock and Motive Power

The Purley sidings here saw regular visitors from Class 73's, and 33's and then 37's as the trains got longer and heavier. I'm modelling the mid 80's so can get away with anything from BR Blue to sectorisation and NSE, but I'm going to stick to the former. Maybe the Purley platform will have some NSE branding?

 

Stock-wise, I have JGA (short) and PHA (long) aggregate hoppers, various open and hopper coal wagons, and whatever the engineers bung into their siding. 

 

 

Operation

Honestly, not a huge amount - pushing and pulling aggregate hoppers through the unloader (or staging them appropriately on the under-track conveyor), spotting coal wagons and changing out empties, and working the engineers siding. I have been FULL ON with operation on my previous layouts, and so I think something small and relatively sedate might be worth a go. I'd like to exhibit the layout just to get an idea of how all that works too.

 

 

Edited January 1, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

I have broken ground today, which makes this already my third most complete layout! Huzzah!  It turns out that you might be able to build a monocoque layout with integrated fascia and backscene without screws if you are a good carpenter. I am not a good carpenter. It also might be possible to get dimensionally perfect sheet cuts by hand if you are a good carpenter. See previous.

 

I decided to try the Iain Rice style of construction, using 6mm ply panels for both the exterior and self-supporting structure and have had mixed success - I feel like since basically every joint requires a stiffening brace, one may as well have just made the frame in the first place. Unfortunately the B&Q near me had their cutting service out of action  (of course) and so I had to cut the sheet material all by hand. I think I was fairly accurate but the nature of the beast isn't a perfectly straight line, which compounds over the course of multiple cuts - it's meant that my benchwork is out by a few mm at least across the length on most joints. I've smoothed the least egregous and I will attempt tomorrow to plane down the remainder. One unfortunate decision early on was to attempt to do this entirely with a nailgun too, instead of via screws - it just made life more difficult, especially when some errant bend in the material required more than one dimension to be fixed simultaneously. Tomorrow I'll go down there and screw the more important sections together. 

 

Any thoughts on the staging would also be very appreciated.

I have just realised that bare aluminium angle can't sit directly on the fiddle yard baseboard as a cassette! It needs if nothing else, it needs something to hold it in gauge, right!? I think the most pertinent course of action is to lower the fiddle yard baseboard height by 5.5mm (i.e. the thickness of the plywood I'm using for the majority of the structure). This will involve removing the intermediate scenic break board (again) and the fascia (again). then slicing down the dividing line as neatly as possible. 

 

Once reaffixed, this will leave me a 'tray' on which I can sit either a sector place or cassettes using the same 5.5mm ply to bring it back to track level. 

 

I would REALLY appreciate any advice from people who have used either method (being quite a boring sod I've gone the whole hog with turnouts in the past so have no practical experience of this fancy gadgetry!). As most of the layout's operation work will seem to involve shunting stock into the rear or front roads, and then running around it to either leave off-scene or get onto the other end to shove, an easy run-around move would appear to useful and thus a sector plate make the most sense, but really I don't have the first clue.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

My membership to the 2mm Association has come through, so have placed an order for the track for this project. (10m track, 3m sleeper bases, gauges, three Easitrack pegged turnouts and the various associated sundries like PCB sleepers, brass chairs, etc.) and the required loco conversion parts (wheelsets for the 37, DG couplers), and some conversion parts (axles for Graham Farish HEAs, wheels and bearings in preparation for some Stephen Harris etched kits in future).

 

Sneakily, I used the Ebay code yesterday to get 20% off a used Farish 37 and new Dapol 33 - saving myself £40 that was immediately eaten by such exciting objects as 'brass coupling jigs' and 'pcb sleepers'. 

Edited December 29, 2017 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

I took a swipe at this today and it went MUCH more smoothly with a drill and some short screws. Unfortunately the hardboard formed a small crease while I was fixing it, which is not ideal. If it shows up when the layout is lit from the inside then I'll try to sand/filler it, and if not use lining paper over the top.

 

The main structure of the layout is complete nevertheless; minus the fascia.

 

The layout plan is tacked in place. I was not sure about the track layout at first, so only cut portals in the plywood rather than the hardboard - but while I was talking the layout through to myself I realised that the layout will be mostly out-and-back work with a tiny bit of shunting, so easy runaround use is not a priority.

 

Also, rather than chop down in the fiddle yard, I will kill two birds with one stone and lay foamcore board to raise the track level slightly on the scenic section.

 

Rail gradients (down a few mm into the engineering siding)

Land gradients (up towards front-left and rear-right, the latter to permit the termination of the aggregate track in a dock infront of the Victorian office building for the firm).

[Lacathedrale]

I decided to keep track of what I'm doing with a few video vlogs (it is one of these which encouraged me to keep the trackplan), if you prefer a video format here they are:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urp4knJ9X30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4w1zL5NHsg

[Lacathedrale]

Last update, built a quick mock-up of the Day Aggregates office to sit in the back corner where that sodding crease is:

 

The very slight mis-cut on the roof is reflected cruelly in this zoomed photo Using paper was a big mistake even for this dry run.

 

I could repeat the above process with some card to get a much better result, buy I don't know if that's the best course of action. Any advice on material?

 

I also  wonder if it's possible to get window frame etchings? I think I might go mad cutting those all by hand...

 

BTW, the real one is centre frame here: 

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=2c7e6816-eb99-4278-8b9c-93bc328316a7&cp=51.336987~-0.112976&lvl=20&dir=180&style=g&imgid=07c0db29-2229-4498-b3d9-5d636cce4cad&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027

[Lacathedrale]

Well, speaking to SED Friedman in the prototype questions thread and it seems that he following things exist now, but not during the period I'm modelling:

1. The steel constructed building I'm constructing for the left view break didn't exist
2. The runaround loop connection didn't exist
3. The coal siding was on the other side of the aggregate piles (i.e. behind what is now the backscene) and consisted of two sidings.

I have played around with the idea of putting in platform 4 and the branch runaround loop, but suddenly the layout has sprouted a vestigial extra arm and I found myself saying "well if I can just squeeze in..." and that flashed a warning in 30' high letters that it's a mistake.

 

With that in mind, it looks like I need to consider a name change. Purley went through three names: Caterham Junction, Godstone Road and then Purley as we know it now. I live about 1/4 mile from Purley station, in an area known as Foxley Wood (which would be a great contrast to the subject matter!).

 

I think Godstone Road has a nice ring to it, but I will put it to the floor - any suggestions? 

[KeithHC]

I would go for Godstone road but rule no.1 always applies. In my mind Godstone its self was not rail connected(yes there is a station in South Godstone) also the village is surrounded by sand pits so a connection to the aggregates that your layout is based around.

 

Good to see a central division layout.

 

Keith

[cornish trains jez]

Hi,

 

Been following this one last few days, being a 2mmFS modeller too, I think Foxley Wood sounds quite a good name too, something a bit different.

 

Best regards,

 

Jeremy

[rob D2]

Foxley sounds a bit posh for a stone depot to my ears...

 

Godstone has a mundane urban ring to it which I think fits

[Lacathedrale]

Well, Godstone itself is about 7 miles away from the site of the station, it is after all just the station at <the other end of> the road to Godstone

 

I think Foxley Wood does sound a bit posh, which in my opinion might make it a good contrast - but alot more location ambiguous than Godstone Road. Godstone Godstone Godstone. Updated the thread title to Godstone Road. Doesn't that look funny now you've seen it so many times? Speaking of which, I think my new lense has gone a bit funny:

(just some old ScaleSeven kits I built a few years ago before I realised that a legit B6 turnout in S7 was something like 18" long by itself)

 

 

Here are a couple of views of the layout as it stands. The fascia is just propped into place, it will be screwed and glued after all the really dirty stuff is complete. I build the conveyor building exactly to scale (4" x 5" or something) and then had to slice it down to about a third of the size. to fit in the spot. I am expecting the upward sweep of the conveyor to be about half as long, and the horizontal length to run roughly to about where the join in the black foamcore is:

 

This view highlights that sodding corner again. I've braced it from behind to stop it tearing any more; looks like the building is going to get a suitably large tree behind it :/

 

As you can see I've cut the foamcore to fit, and ordered some sheets of 1mm and 2mm card and plasticard to construct the buildings/etc and raise up the engineer's siding to about 2mm below the main track level.  My plan is to have some gentle ground-level undulations using the 2mm card and foamcore (think: topographical map) with the front-middle being the lowest point. 

 

It's surprising just how much stock a little layout like this can support even in a relatively narrow period of latter BR freight:

• Classes 33, 37* and 73
• Limestone in BR ex-Iron Ore Tipplers: http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ironoretipplermsv (MSV)
• Aggregate in bogie hoppers (JGA/PGA)
• Domestic coal in bauxite BT 16T Minerals (MCV) or Speedlink Coal Network HEA hoppers later on.
• Spoil for engineering trains in bauxite BR 16T minerals (MCV). 

* from what I can gather the 37s were relatively rarely seen in the BR(S) until they started turning up on... speedlink coal services, engineering trains, and aggregate trains. How oddly convenient

 

So this is where I am now; I think that's a decent amount of progress for 48hrs or so, but I most definitely need a breather to rest and repose while I wait for railmatch paints, card, plasticard and my locos to be delivered.

Edited January 1, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

A little light reading:

 

 

My Class 33 has turned up too - although where I am going to find cheques to give to the chap who will reprofile the wheels I do not know.

 

And here's 37254. The previous owner fitted buffer beam detail but packed the model really badly; the three link is lodged somewhere inside the front bogie

 

Edited January 4, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

Well, my first 2mmFS shipment - replacement wheels for Farish wagons, new wheels + bearings for scratchbuilt/kitbuilt wagons, brass turned vacuum cylinders, a back-to-back gauge and two sets of DG couplers/height setting gauges:

 

 

The latter was a mistake on my part, but in reality I think sixteen pairs is more like what I need so I'm not too worried.

[Lacathedrale]

My lord some of these pieces are very, very small. I know that goes without saying, but gosh.

[rob D2]

How many has the carpet monster got so far ??

[Lacathedrale]

So far nothing joins up - I've got locos but no track, wheels but no wagonsm etc. but I have a feeling these will need to be done in a dinner tray. I've already lost the three link from my Class 37 (somewhere in the front bogie mechanism)...

[Lacathedrale]

I stopped by the Croydon Military and Aviation Toy and Collectors fair and picked up a Stug IV - no direct relation to this project other than I intend to try out weathering on it using the railmatch paints, and a set of oils, brushes, odourless thinner I picked up from hobbycraft after the show. I also grabbed some boxes, clips, cutters, plastic cement and so on.  I still don't have a 'workbench' as such, all of my modelling kit is in the garden office but the only furniture in there is a chair!

 

The only major change to the layout is that I've gone from B6 to B7 turnouts after digesting the 'Track' book by the 2mmFS just because i've got the space and no real issues around capacity for runarounds/etc. as a B7 is a 'natural' turnout where the radius of the curved switchblades and the diverging route all match nicely. The book really is quite fabulous and I would heartily recommend it to anyone - of course I've yet to implement any of it since the Shop1 chap from 2mmFS association appears to be on holiday; but it all makes alot of sense.

 

I did make another short vlog video, and it will be my last a) using my cameraphone and b) without a tripod - so please just bear with it for now if you fancy watching, it'll be better soon - I promise!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1H8Qrx26hw

Edited January 7, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

So thanks to some wonderful help in the prototype thread, arrangements for the stone terminal are coming together nicely.

 

Here's a mirrored version of Ardingly. From the perspective of my layout, you'd be looking from the middle of the backscene towards the front corner, which will be somewhere where the tall trees are.

 

 

To the right of the photo you can see the conveyor, shown in more detail below, this view would be from where the back where aggregates office would be, looking again towards the front/middle of the layout.

 

 

If my fiddle yard was scenic'ed, this is what it would look like from the 'other' side of the unloading shed:

 

 

All of these have trees in fairly high proportion, so I don't feel bad about using them for a scenic break on the left of the layout.

 

Wootton Bassett (not pictured but very similar to the above shots) has the same trees which get smaller and smaller and peter out into scrub just ahead of a siding - that would be a perfect space filler for the front of the layout, which as discussed has got proportionally bigger after the geometry change.

 

Lastly, Lincoln Coal Depot remained mostly unchanged until the late 80's so I will use that as inspiration for the Charrington's siding, albeit with a mobile conveyor instead of a chute:

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[justin1985]

 

My Class 33 has turned up too - although where I am going to find cheques to give to the chap who will reprofile the wheels I do not know.

 

 

 

Slight devil's advocate question, and I say this as a 2mm Association member (and intermittent modeller), but have you considered using Finetrax \ "Finer" N gauge rather than 2mm for these projects?

 

I'm sure you're aware of TomE's Ropley in N layout, which uses a combination of 2mm Easitrac components but to N gauge clearances. The Finetrax product has subsequently simplified this approach with a range of cast crossings and pre-drilled turnout bases for pegged rail chairs, which are directly equivalent to the latest generation of 2mm Association Easitrac turnout kits (and of course for custom turnouts you can do as Tom did and use the plain Easitrac strip and non-pegged chairs).

 

I've been dabbling in both N and 2mm for years, and have come to the conclusion that while full 2mm standards are really worthwhile for steam-era modelling, the costs (both time and financial) of using full 2mm standards for diesel era layouts probably outweigh the benefits. Wheels are much more visible on steam locos, and spoked steam type wheels are simply not available as standalone parts for N gauge, so 2mm is the only viable route for kit or scratch building steam. I think Tom's layout shows how good N / 9mm gauge can look when constructed using finescale components, and used with "new generation" models.

 

Just a thought based on my own experience with similar projects - obviously ignore if you've already considered and come to conclusion of going for pure 2mm!  

 

Justin

[Lacathedrale]

I'll check the layout link now. Honestly after seeing the size of the bearings for the wagon wheels I'm a little nervous. My other muses (as have been mentioned elsewhere) are the glory days of steam in the start of the 20th century and I'm not sure I'll be up to a full rebuild of full valve gear in 2mm! 

 

Anyway, I have ordered railings, truss, beams and rod to construct what I believe should be the sum total of the buildings on the layout; buying it all again (having chucked out alot of my old materials) has meant I've paid seriously over the odds (probably in the region of ~£150 now just on raw materials and tools) but it does mean that I should be in good stead to move onwards. Lesson learned for next time I need to put the trains away: don't throw out the baby with the bathwater! 

[Lacathedrale]

Well, it looks like a local RMwebber who is also into 2mm is in the area, so that's lovely - already I have learned a fair deal. Hopefully several pints will repay...

• I'll be using cobalt digital point motors instead of manual actuation - pushbuttons recessed on the front of the layout as well as via DCC.
• I'll be using moving pcb sleepers as point rods rather than wire droppers or bolts on this layout - then experiment with those finer alternatives at a later date.
• I should consider the long term suitability of 2mmFS for layout construction beyond just Godstone Road; specifically it would be nice to revisit some steam layout ideas I had, and how practical that will be. I did arbitrarily start naming locomotives and then subsequently finding that the association supplies wheels for them, so that is heartening. 

The gent also suggested BritishFiNescale/FiNetrax as an alternate track standard; that is something I will definitely investigate, but as I'm already somewhat deep into 2mmFS for this layout I don't think I'll be changing here regardless.

 

If you poke your head into this video you can see the Purley sidings from the driver's eye view, showing the cripple siding, lead into the unloading building and the two runaround loops, and the proximity to the Caterham branch platform:

https://youtu.be/L_dYNHm0bWA?t=1315

Edited January 9, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[justin1985]

 

The gent also suggested BritishFiNescale/FiNetrax as an alternate track standard; that is something I will definitely investigate, but as I'm already somewhat deep into 2mmFS for this layout I don't think I'll be changing here regardless.

 

 

Not to labour the point too much, but the actual practical difference really is minimal - 0.42mm on the gauge and a bit more on the crossings\flangeways. In all practical terms, everything else is the same between the two standards, and you can use 2mmFS plain track interchangeably with Finetrax when using N gauge wheels. And obviously you can use N gauge stock out of the box, at least as far as wheels are concerned. Pointwork clearances and wheel profiles are literally the only aspects which would differ. 

 

As I don't think you've yet built any points, and haven't had any loco wheels turned down yet, its probably actually the ideal time to change if you were going to consider it! But obviously if you're sold on the fineness of the 2mm trackwork standards and purity of combining with 2mm wheel dimensions, that is of course a technically superior route

 

J

[Lacathedrale]

Hi Justin, 

 

I really can't find much out about Finetrax and infact, I was hoping to pick your brain over a pint at some point. To be absolutely clear, the pointwork in FiNetrax is N scale standards with British timbering and Code 40 rail? I am not really all that excited about buying off-the-shelf point kits for £20 a pop. I've inherited some wariness of the plastic timbered turnouts after treading the 2mmFSA 'Track' book, which implies they need a fair bit of modification to be robust enough for normal use.

 

Should I assume then that standard N-scale roller/triangle gauges will get the equivalent of Finetrax, using Templot templates? If all it will require is a few chunks of brass it would be remiss of me not to try, at least while my Class 33 is yet to be re-wheeled. 

 

Cheers,

Edited January 10, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[justin1985]

Exactly - no need to use the commercial kits, I think I (and others) are simply using "Finetrax" as a generic term for track to "Finer N" standards.

 

The actual standards are defined in NMRA and NEM (US and European respectively) standards which are summarised on this random Danish site I found on Google. The NMRA RP25 standards for N gauge wheels are the best known, and ones you'll hear manufacturers claim their wheels conform to. The most critical one is the flangeway gap (FMax on that diagram) which is 0.76mm in the NMRA standard and 1mm in the NEM standard. 2mmFS flangeway is 0.5mm, compared to a true scale of 0.29mm. 

 

When I was building my bodged "finer Z" points I began with nothing but some offcuts of scrap etch carefully cut to size to act as a gauge. Obviously roller gauges etc made it easier, but its certainly possible to bodge as well. Ready made roller gauges (and wheelset back to back gauges) are available from N Brass Locos here: http://www.nbrasslocos.co.uk/fitall.html#GAUGE and as far as I'm aware the only triangular gauges for N are from FastTracks in Canada: https://www.handlaidtrack.com/rail-nmra-gauge 

 

J

[Lacathedrale]

So thanks to the generosity of Justin above, I now have picture of my rewheeled Class 37 on some 9.42 gauge 2mmFS track:

 

 

Can you tell? Apart from the fine appearance of the track, the wheels (while definitely finer when viewed from below or in direct comparison) are hidden almost entirely by the bogies. I'm going to hope that the running qualities of 2mmFS make up for the rather underwhelming result shown above.

 

If I can find a set of roller gauges that work for Code 40 rail in N, I think making a set of turnouts and some track for both may be a good idea to get a view on what compromise would be made in order to retain compatibility with RTR stock and the ability to resale equipment. I am very much looking at hand laying track using PCB and chairplates either way, but if the difference is as marginal operationally as visually then it seems silly to go with 2mm when N would happily suffice. Time will tell.

 

I now also have all the supplies I'll need to scratchbuild the structures for Godstone Rd. The only thing I'm not 100% sold on is the fairly large girdering I was planning on using for the arms of the conveyor A-frames - it looks like it would be robust in OO, let alone N. I also put an order in with Stephen Harris for some etched wagon kits, and a sneaky bit on a spares/repairs Class 47 I can use to test repainting, weathering,. etc.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Lacathedrale