Modelling a traditional GWR parcels train.

[OnTheBranchline]

Hi everyone,

 

There is a long running thread in modelling musings & miscellany area. I thought I would transpose the GWR part to the relevant forum.

 

The following research on GWR vehicles that could be used was provided by Fr. Castle of this parish:

 

Dia. P18*Monster No. 484 - Conversion from outside to inside framed Coopercraft kit.
Dia. P19* Python No. 565 - Parkside Dundas Kit
Dia. Y11 Fruit D No. 2913 - Parkside Dundas Kit
Dia. Y9 Fruit C No. 2862 - Parkside Dundas Kit Conversion
Dia. S10 Bloater No. 2671 - Parkside Dundas Kit Conversion
Dia. Y2 Fruit No. 47886 - David Geen Kit
Dia. Y7 Fruit B Banana Van No. 105599 - Parkside Dundas Kit Convertion
Dia. L23* Travelling Post Office No. 814 - 247 Developments Kit
Dia. K40* Collett Bow Ended Full Brake No. 1184 - Comet kit although I will do this vehicle as preserved with one end bowed as built and one end flat + offset gangway to go with TPO No. 814. Some of these vehicles were so treated in service but not No. 1184. It gives the C & W gang a reason to restore it though...
Dia. K41* Collett Full Brake No. 111 - Comet Kit Conversion (new gutters mainly - these vehicles were also an inch different in width from the K42s* the kit is based on but life is too short...)
Dia. K45* Hawksworth Full Brake No. 316 - Hornby RTR or Comet Kit
Dia. K14* Dean Full Brake No. 933 - you can get enough bits from Shire Scenes and Dart Castings to make this one just about feasible... Unbelievably, this was still in service in the late 1950s!
Dia. O33 Churchward Siphon G bogie Milk Van - Adapted Lima RTR.

Diagram numbers with * are in the carriage index, those without are in the wagon index".

 

Are there any other vehicles that could be done with either kits or RTR items?

[sandwich station]

Can we have a link to the original thread please?

[Nearholmer]

And, did the GWR actually run ‘block’ parcels trains?

 

It might have, between the big centres like London and Wolves, but such trains were largely a BR thing.

 

Kevin

[OnTheBranchline]

Can we have a link to the original thread please?

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66383-modelling-a-traditional-parcels-train/

[Castle]

Hi All,

 

The list above is just what I’m doing for my Little Didcot collection and is in no way exhaustive! Remember that I only do the vehicles preserved in the GWS collection.

 

An obvious omission is the GWR parcels railcar (we don’t have one at Didcot!) which is / was a Lima / Hornby product and is an instant parcels train once placed on the track!

 

I sent that list a while back and I think I have a full kit for the Dean full brake No. 933 now but I can’t remember where it came from off hand. I will have a sift through the pile and find out at some point.

 

There are obvious conversions based upon the MONSTER to GIANT by adding corridor connections.

 

I’m sure that there will be lots more suggestions here!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

Edited December 30, 2017 by Castle

[Penrhos1920]

The K14/15/16 can also be made from the old Ks kit.

 

Do Siphon C and F count? From Shires Scenes and Ks.

[Miss Prism]

I suppose we all have different perceptions of what a 'traditional parcels' train was or might have been. My feelings about the OP list is that:

 

- a TPO is unlikely to be in a parcels train;

- 4-wheel vehicles allowed only if they are XP rated;

- Y2, Y7 and P19 probably unlikely in a parcels train (but no doubt there were exceptions, and the Fruits often doubled for milk and other perishables);

- on the GWR, milk vehicles were endemic for all different types of trains, and would feature strongly in most 'parcels trains'.

 

Here's a nice one:

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrls891.htm

[Nearholmer]

My question is more along the lines: were parcels trains actually a tradition of the GWR?

 

I genuinely don't know, but I do know that pre-BR a huge number of railway parcels travelled by ordinary passenger train, and that BR spotted how inefficient this was, and concentrated the traffic into 'block' trains.

 

I'm no GWRologist, but I'm sure those who are can enlighten me.

 

Kevin

[petethemole]

From the same site, http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh1780.htm  and possibly more of the same train, http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh1797.htm although the Southern van isn't the same one.

[NCB]

Can remember in the early 60s went from Paddington to Stroud in a parcels train, just like an ordinary train except maybe more capacity for parcels (not sure what). The noticeable difference was the piles of parcels being loaded and unloaded at each stop, so of course the stops were longer. This was late at night, so it was quite atmospheric looking out of the window at dimly lit platforms with a fair amount of activity going on.

 

Worsley Works does a toplight K22 full brake in 4mm, probably a good candidate for a parcels train. Etchings only, I believe, but it's an ex 5522 Models kit so is a bit more complete than Allen's usual scratch-aids. I built the 3mm version. He also does K1, K4 and K15 Dean brakes in 4mm. He does K14/15/16 in 3mm, as built or as later with some steel panels and guards' lookout removed, and would probably do them in 4mm if asked.

[Castle]

I suppose we all have different perceptions of what a 'traditional parcels' train was or might have been. My feelings about the OP list is that:

 

- a TPO is unlikely to be in a parcels train;

- 4-wheel vehicles allowed only if they are XP rated;

- Y2, Y7 and P19 probably unlikely in a parcels train (but no doubt there were exceptions, and the Fruits often doubled for milk and other perishables);

- on the GWR, milk vehicles were endemic for all different types of trains, and would feature strongly in most 'parcels trains'.

 

Here's a nice one:

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrls891.htm

Hi Miss P,

 

I was giving a vague range there - I bow to superior knowledge on the part of you and others!

 

I’m good at questions on Castles however...

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[Siberian Snooper]

Roxey Mouldings do kits for the Diag K4 (4C109) Diag K14 (4C110) and Diags K15/16 (4C111) non of these kits are shewn on the website, so you would need contact Dave direct. http://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/.

 

The difference between the K15 and K16 is the K15 had gangway connectors and the K16 had provision for them, but they were not fitted.

 

Edit for clumsy fingers.

Edited December 30, 2017 by Siberian Snooper

[Coach bogie]

Roxey Mouldings do kits for the Diag K4 (4C109) Diag K14 (4C110) and Diags K15/16 (4C111) non of these kits are shewn on the website, so you would need contact Dave direct. http://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/.

 

The difference between the K15 and K16 is the K15 had gangway connectors and the K16 had provision for them, but they were not fitted.

 

Edit for clumsy fingers.

A pack of three rebuilds to three different specific ex K15 vans from Martin Needham was/is available available from David Geen. Here is one of them built up.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Coach bogie]

From the same site, http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh1780.htm  and possibly more of the same train, http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh1797.htm although the Southern van isn't the same one.

The clerestory is a K17 built for TPO work. When the steel sided stock came in, a couple were kept as TPO reserve vehicles, the others became general vans. One was regularly seen as milk train brake, others in general parcels use. Trevor Charlton made zinc etches for the K17.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Nick Holliday]

The clerestory is a K17 built for TPO work. When the steel sided stock came in, a couple were kept as TPO reserve vehicles, the others became general vans. One was regularly seen as milk train brake, others in general parcels use. Trevor Charlton made zinc etches for the K17.

K17 Mial.jpg

 

Mike Wiltshire

Without wishing to open up that particular can of worms, the current Kemilway website lists etchings for two GWR TPO's, one of which is described as clerestory, and shown as one of Peter K's special offers. I don't know if they are actually available, or which diagrams they are meant to represent, but maybe worth a phone call.

[Coach bogie]

Without wishing to open up that particular can of worms, the current Kemilway website lists etchings for two GWR TPO's, one of which is described as clerestory, and shown as one of Peter K's special offers. I don't know if they are actually available, or which diagrams they are meant to represent, but maybe worth a phone call.

The clerestory is the original (L3 I think) that had a passenger compartment at one end. This did ot last long in this condition. The other is a Steel sided TPO. There is a challenge with this one unless the films have been updated. The recessed net etching is too short and does not fit between the vertical side sections at each end. I had to make a new one on mine.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[twiggy1969]

Without wishing to open up that particular can of worms, the current Kemilway website lists etchings for two GWR TPO's, one of which is described as clerestory, and shown as one of Peter K's special offers. I don't know if they are actually available, or which diagrams they are meant to represent, but maybe worth a phone call.

been on special offer for a few years ive sent emails and phoned got no where so gave up but if you are lucky please let me know

[M.I.B]

There is the outside framed SIPHON G from Airfix/Mainline and an outside framed SIPHON H also from Airfix/Mainline.   Plenty of "parcels" service seen by these items.

 

K42 can be made with Comet kits or Comet sides on RTR bodies ( see my link in the sig below)

 

Same for K36 (from Frogmore I think).

 

L10s from 247 if you can find a kit second hand on Ebay - they were mail vans for a while and then got demoted to parcels work.

 

K22 from an old Mailcoach kit ( all plastic - see Ebay)  or from a Comet kit ( brass) or Comet sides onto a 57' RTR Hornby body (as done in link below)

 

SIPHON F - plastic kit - turns up on Ebay from time to time.

 

K19 - brass kit or brass sides on Hornby RTR

 

O13 Milk Brake - brass kit - long out of serivce - see Ebay

 

K42  Comet kit or brass sides onto Hornby RTR

[81E]

 

Above is one of my Lima Siphon G fitted with some 3D printed Collet 7' Bogies that I have developed (see  https://www.shapeways.com/product/SUT5JRGJW/gwr-7-collett-bogie-lima-fit?optionId=64877661). A close-up is shown below

 

[57xx]

 

Dia. O33 Churchward Siphon G bogie Milk Van - Adapted Lima RTR.

 

 

O33 soon to be available in brass kit form.

[robertcwp]

Early BR but still GWR in character:

4935_LeamingtonSpa_1950 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[Jim Martin]

My question is more along the lines: were parcels trains actually a tradition of the GWR?

 

I genuinely don't know, but I do know that pre-BR a huge number of railway parcels travelled by ordinary passenger train, and that BR spotted how inefficient this was, and concentrated the traffic into 'block' trains.

 

I'm no GWRologist, but I'm sure those who are can enlighten me.

 

Kevin

I know nothing about the GWR, but I seem to recall Steve Banks making this point about the LNER. Whether it was in one of his articles in Modeller's Backtrack or on his website, I don't remember.

 

Jim

[The Fatadder]

On 22/04/2018 at 18:25, robertcwp said:

Early BR but still GWR in character:

4935_LeamingtonSpa_1950 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Very interesting photo, showing just how

many different designs are needed to make a convincing parcels train.   Can anyone identify what is in this set?

[Coach bogie]

The last coach is a K22. The second to  last is an 022 siphon. This is one of the rarer diagrams as the planking is horizontal., compared to the vertical planking seen on the ex Lima body.  I am not sure about the third one in as the window layout was the same over several diagrams.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Wenrash]

There has been a publication produced. "Train Formations & Carriage Workings of the Great Western Railway" by W.S.Becket. This is based on the 1931/32 winter time table. Its shows that the first six trains out from Paddington  were parcel or newspaper trains. But they all had some passenger accommodation.

The book contains Bradshaw extracts, Train formations and Daily carriage diagrams. To show the content I have copied the 00:10 information for all to see.

 

Richard A