Geringer Platz - formally Bemo HOm coupling question

[Satan's Goldfish]

Because I don't have enough projects to avoid, some Brunigbahn HOm has happened over Christmas.*

 

I have a coupling question however: the couplings on the locos seem to stick out further than those on coaches. And the HGe4/4ii is much worse for coupling length than the Deh4/6. Is this normal or is there other coupling length options? Especially for the HGe!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, didn't realise there was such a length difference between the Brunig EWiii coaches and the 'old' LSE coaches... well i found it interesting anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

*I already had the LSE coaches.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Satan's Goldfish

[hayfield]

I found the coaches are very close coupled, on the Bemo website there are two types of couplings shown in the spares section

[PaulRhB]

There are various loco couplings but beware the fitting at the loco end as they aren't all interchangeable. You'd need to look at the spares sheets on the Bemo website for each loco to see if there's something that looks shorter. Go to the loco page and some, unfortunately not all, have a little page symbol under the photo with an 'E' on it that is a link to the parts leaflet for that loco.

[Satan's Goldfish]

Cheers guys, I'll see what I can find.

[Satan's Goldfish]

As an FYI, the couplings are correct, the HGe is missing end detail that helps hide how far out it is. So I need to order that.

[Satan's Goldfish]

I don't know what the record is for first item of stock bought before starting building the layout, but I got the first LSE coach in the very early 1990s...

 

My other on going layout projects are quite large or complex and taking a long time which can be a little disheartening when you just want to operate something. After starting this thread I was fortunate enough to get a couple of ready built Tim Horn boards at a price too good to refuse, so I'm using them for a small 'Minories' inspired Brunig Bahn layout. A completely fictitious location somewhere around Lake Luzern at the end of an S-bahn route.

 

A third board is still required for the fiddle yard, a lift-off turntable design Tim has been working on, but rather than be the full board width I've left mine narrow enough to still work even if the layout is positioned against a wall.

 

 

'Geringer Platz' loosely translates as 'Minor Place' as there was no direct German translation for Minories! It doesn't have the characteristic S bend approach or urban grot environment of the traditional British version, plus I've added a loop with a goods shed and loading platform where the pilot stub should be to make it look a little more Swiss.

 

 

Trains are a maximum length of loco+3, which manages to fit into the 3 main platforms very comfortably, with space for an extra vehicle at the end of platform 3. 1+3 can also just fit into platform 4 if required.

 

 

I'm working on 'universal' PWM DC controllers and power supplies for all the different layouts I'm building at the moment from N to G, so this will be built to work with that. I already have enough spare point motors for this, I just need to investigate what the most reliable uncoupling method is for the standard Bemo couplings.

 

 

Stock so Far is all Bemo, the 2x engines and 4 coaches pictured further up the thread. Worked out it'll run smoothly with 4 engines, 8 coaches, and a couple of 4 wheel wagons, so I'm about half way there. I'd like to find one of the LSE baggage rail cars for 1 of the engines, but everything else will be SBB. The wagons will most likely have to be re-branded RhB items.

 

 

 

 

 

SBB Brunig Bahn stock is good for this, there's not so many different items that it's easy to get carried away wanting more and then wishing the layout was bigger. Once an S-bahn set, a Geringer Platz - Luzern Express set, and an LSE set have been covered, there's really nothing else to do/buy anyway. I like the Deh 4/6 rail cars though, but I'll be happy with 1 in LSE (if I can find 1) and a couple in SBB. Were any still green when they sold 2 to the LSE?

 

Thanks for watching, I'd best order some track now I know what I need...

[PaulRhB]

Well if you buy more stock you can always extend the layout

Looks good!

[Satan's Goldfish]

Any suggestions for items similar to the buffers in the below link, or am I looking at scratch building?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Zentralbahn_trains,_Luzern.jpg

 

The fall back option would be something like the Peco OO sleeper built buffer stop but with plants/flowers growing out of it.

[Joseph_Pestell]

This looks  fun!

 

Just for info, Minories, like quite a few street names in the City of London, refers to a religious order (of nuns). I'm sure that should give you some sort of basis for translation into German (not that I dislike the name you have chosen).

[PaulRhB]

Any suggestions for items similar to the buffers in the below link, or am I looking at scratch building?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Zentralbahn_trains,_Luzern.jpgThe fall back option would be something like the Peco OO sleeper built buffer stop but with plants/flowers growing out of it.

Bemo do one of the right shape but it's solid.

https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/Bemo/37-11-0-27848-007001-0-0-36-0-2-0-grp-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html

 

A TT one that's similar

https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/Tillig/4-3-0-220508-007001-0-0-0-0-0-0-grp-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html

[Satan's Goldfish]

Cheers Paul, didn't think of TT, that Tillig option looks ideal as a start plus will fit the track.

[Satan's Goldfish]

The wife has gone and messed up the operational plan of mostly SBB stock. I'm not complaining though! Revised operations will be LSE all S-bahn services, SBB set for an Express. Just need another SBB zebra at a sensible price and work out how to improvise LSE motive power.

 

 

The 2x second class coaches have different numbers, need to check if I'm lucky and my previous middle entrance coach is different as well.

[Satan's Goldfish]

 

LSE bought some Deh 4/6's from the SBB, only to return these to their previous owner in the SBB-Brünig+LSE merger into ZB a few years later   IIRC Bemo has done the LSE version, or at least planned to release it, when they announced their Deh 4/6.

Alternatively, repaint one (or rather a pair) of the RhB ABe 4/4 Bernina "Motorwagen" from the 50 series for freelance power. The BOB did purchase a rack-version of the series, going by the look of it. It could be conceived the LSE did the same

 

 

Funnily enough, I've just been doing some hunting for options. I was aware that Bemo had done one the LSE Deh 4/6 as I've been looking for quite a while but never found one for sale. But, there is only minor livery differences between the plain Red SBB version and LSE (remove SBB logos, add LSE logos and dark window surround) so a minor re-spray is an option and I'd be able to create both of them.

 

Also found the second series RhB Bernina motorwagen (not sure of the numbers) is a possible base for the LSE ones; not quite the same type of doors or number of windows in the second class portion, and the 1st class portion would need removing and replaced with baggage doors, but close enough. That then leads on to needing a driving coach at the other end to complete a 3 vehicle set (I already have a proper intermediate coach). but it's options at least

 

Probably should build the layout before worrying too much about that, I have all the track now.

[Talbotjohn]

I don't know what the record is for first item of stock bought before starting building the layout, but I got the first LSE coach in the very early 1990s...

 

My other on going layout projects are quite large or complex and taking a long time which can be a little disheartening when you just want to operate something. After starting this thread I was fortunate enough to get a couple of ready built Tim Horn boards at a price too good to refuse, so I'm using them for a small 'Minories' inspired Brunig Bahn layout. A completely fictitious location somewhere around Lake Luzern at the end of an S-bahn route.

 

A third board is still required for the fiddle yard, a lift-off turntable design Tim has been working on, but rather than be the full board width I've left mine narrow enough to still work even if the layout is positioned against a wall.

 

Brunig HOm Turntable Minories.jpg

 

'Geringer Platz' loosely translates as 'Minor Place' as there was no direct German translation for Minories! It doesn't have the characteristic S bend approach or urban grot environment of the traditional British version, plus I've added a loop with a goods shed and loading platform where the pilot stub should be to make it look a little more Swiss.

 

20180120_195635.jpg

 

Trains are a maximum length of loco+3, which manages to fit into the 3 main platforms very comfortably, with space for an extra vehicle at the end of platform 3. 1+3 can also just fit into platform 4 if required.

 

20180120_195941.jpg

 

I'm working on 'universal' PWM DC controllers and power supplies for all the different layouts I'm building at the moment from N to G, so this will be built to work with that. I already have enough spare point motors for this, I just need to investigate what the most reliable uncoupling method is for the standard Bemo couplings.

 

20180120_200156.jpg

 

Stock so Far is all Bemo, the 2x engines and 4 coaches pictured further up the thread. Worked out it'll run smoothly with 4 engines, 8 coaches, and a couple of 4 wheel wagons, so I'm about half way there. I'd like to find one of the LSE baggage rail cars for 1 of the engines, but everything else will be SBB. The wagons will most likely have to be re-branded RhB items.

 

20180120_200156.jpg

 

20180120_200207.jpg

 

20180120_200358.jpg

 

20180120_200655.jpg

 

SBB Brunig Bahn stock is good for this, there's not so many different items that it's easy to get carried away wanting more and then wishing the layout was bigger. Once an S-bahn set, a Geringer Platz - Luzern Express set, and an LSE set have been covered, there's really nothing else to do/buy anyway. I like the Deh 4/6 rail cars though, but I'll be happy with 1 in LSE (if I can find 1) and a couple in SBB. Were any still green when they sold 2 to the LSE?

 

Thanks for watching, I'd best order some track now I know what I need...

Hi,

I have found this very interesting. For my sins I get to help operate a P4 layout called "London Road" depicting the LNWR railway pre 1914 that was originally built in the 1980's using a track plan very similar to Minories. It is now a through station but I always wondered what it would look like with modern stock - now I know - and your interpretation looks good.

[Satan's Goldfish]

Been a while since I updated this one, but DIY from house move has had to take priority.

 

However, stock has increased by another SBB coach so that's the full set of 3 for the Express complete.

 

I've started control panel designs, slightly inspired by operating Sheffield Exchange (thanks Clive). The plan is to have everything fitted to a single control panel that can be orientated either way up for operating from either side of the layout. Still a lot to work out on it, but there's 2x panel mounted controllers, 4 sections of the plan, and 4 centre off switches to select which control operates which part. Pencil and stud operation for the points. I need to investigate how HOm uncouplers work.

 

 

Plus I think I'm going to need more platform isolating sections to work it properly as the eventual plan would see LSE railcar sets (3 coach lengths) which would sometimes tow an additional coach, but I don't want to overly complicate the panel. Maybe the isolating mark needs to be at the 3x coach distance from the buffers rather than 1?

 

I'm torn on whether to have a dedicated station pilot or not. Is there a source of 'cheap' generic HOm diesel shunters available anywhere that could be made to look SBB/LSE rather than Bemo prices? my other option to just use which ever engine is on the freight as pilot, the layout/wallet can only really accommodate 4 trains max.

[PaulRhB]

You could look at TT shunters and just put a new cab on? Roco, Piko and Tillig worth a look.

[Satan's Goldfish]

You could look at TT shunters and just put a new cab on? Roco, Piko and Tillig worth a look.

Good idea, will keep an eye out, not anti a little modifying.

[Satan's Goldfish]

Laying awake at night, unable to sleep, working through operating scenarios in my head and figuring out how to make the control panel work either way up...

 

Think I've got it now. Platform end isolating section moved to the 3x coach length from buffers, uncouplers at the 1x and 3x length positions (I really must look into the options there, will a loose sprung piece of plastic work with Bemo couplers? (Paul?!)) and that allows most of the operations I can imagine in my head.

 

Control panel seems to work both ways up too. Printed it out on A3 for a test, needed to stretch the image up/down to fill the sheet which has distorted it slightly but will see how it works with switches etc.

 

 

Wiring is very simple for this as no light indications on the panel, not even going to draw that up.

 

Feels like progress

[Satan's Goldfish]

Fed up with DIY and unpacking, figure today can have a hobby element

 

Geringer Platz boards are set up ready for point motor holes to be drilled so I've treated myself by seeing where I'm at with HO/HOm stock and items. A plain red 2nd class SBB coach completes the 'express'

 

 

 

 

The station fills quite nicely with stock now if everything is in at once.

 

 

 

 

Still lacking LSE motive power. More Deh 4/6 are definitely on the wish list, but depending what I find at the right price next will probably determine whether I go 'station pilot', or LSE 'railcar', etc.

 

For freight, found a HO standard gauge wagon that I bought quite a while ago. This can sit on a pair of 'rollwagen' https://www.shapeways.com/product/9AXDDYDQ3/neubau-rollwagen-rf4-mit-saugluftbremse-in-h0m?optionId=6554537&li=marketplace Not quite the SBB version but close enough and will fit in the goods loop.

 

 

 

 

Also on there is a 40ft HO container that came on a 4 wheel flat (pretending to be an OO ferry wagon), was never sure what to do with the container, but glad I didn't dispose of it as I now have at least 1 scenic item

 

Parts for the control panel are on order, let's see how long it takes for Mrs SG to tell me to stop having fun...

[Satan's Goldfish]

Last night's 'operating' session has highlighted a couple of issues.

 

1. A shunter for pilot is definitely a good idea, there's even a short gap to stable it in at the end of platform 4 next to the goods loop:

 

 

It's now a case of how to create one. I'm not familiar at all with what runs well and what doesn't on 12mm gauge, I had an eBay hunt to see what shunter were available in TT, the very cheap end seems to be a Triang 08 (i suspet that's a no!) and then it's various European models which look much better and start at around £100. That's quite a bit for something I might ruin as soon as I try to replace the cab :/

 

Going the other way, in my OO9 box I have an old Egger-Bahn diesel as per the one on their Wikipedia page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egger-bahn it needs quite a bit of work anyway (missing roof, motor doesn't work, etc) so is there a HOm/TT equivalent of a black beetle motor?. As I already have it, it was free, and needs work anyway, I don't mind chopping it around a bit to create a bigger footplate, wider cab, etc. From recollection, most of the LSE diesels were quite small compared to other stock... apart from Jumbo.

 

 

 

2. There's an operational interest issue with the current and imagined stock; if the mainline roster is a SBB HGe 4/4ii, LSE Deh 4/6, and an LSE railcar, then each engine is restricted to working just 1 set of coaches and the only variation is when a set of coaches is stabled so an engine can work the freight.

 

Part of the idea with this plan is shunting interest, and the prototype companies were not shy about shunting around coaching formations. When I first imagined it as mostly SBB with a single LSE visitor it seemed to work in my head but that was with 3x large SBB locos and no dedicated shunter (there's only so much this can sensibly hold) so loco swapping would be regular. I can't quite make the same happen with the majority of stock being LSE; it gets too cluttered with 2x Deh 4/6 and a railcar (plus shunter, plus SBB loco), but it's a bit better with 2x Deh 4/6 and no railcar. A single 4 wheeled wagon as occasional tail load would help mix it up a bit as well.

 

The other option is I fix a year for the layout and get the second Deh 4/6 and any additional coaches in ZB colours. The SBB and LSE coaches could get mixed up then (I think) and I don't need to risk trying to respray and accidentally ruining any good Bemo models :/

 

 

 

 

Other than that, the minories format works really nicely holes have now been drilled for the point motors.

[PaulRhB]

Keep an eye on eBay as Tm2/2's come up for around £70-80 and run well if you add a bit of weight on the deck. You can disguise it in a toolbox or use cast pieces if you find the right size.

[PaulRhB]

This one looks to be HOm from the pics

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F202407869582

[Satan's Goldfish]

Cheers Paul, that one hasn't appeared on my recent searches. Perfect.

 

 

Edit: another option could be to add the engine hood from the egger-bahn to hide the added weights and work towards something like this: https://depositphotos.com/177870740/stock-photo-locomotive-of-the-zentralbahn-railway.html

Edited August 26, 2018 by Satan's Goldfish

[Salmotrutta]

Keep an eye on eBay as Tm2/2's come up for around £70-80 and run well if you add a bit of weight on the deck. You can disguise it in a toolbox or use cast pieces if you find the right size.

PECO electro-lube on the wheels helps too. Later ones have a more dirt-resistant finish on the wheels which helps pick-up apparently. 

[PaulRhB]

PECO electro-lube on the wheels helps too. Later ones have a more dirt-resistant finish on the wheels which helps pick-up apparently.

Fine on a flat layout but a nightmare if you have hills, my mate decided to use a similar contact oil and the first train up the spiral disappeared into the tunnel and didn't come out! Had to clean the whole layout again with the cmx cleaner and alcohol

That's another thing to consider btw cleaning under the wires