Haigh Sidings - Inglenook Shunting Layout - OO Gauge

[JSModels]

Hello,
 
I got back into model railways 2 years ago, after a break of around 20 years, with a couple of N gauge layouts (details are on the NGF) but recently I decided to start building a OO gauge shunting puzzle. When I got back into N gauge I started with a shunting puzzle, but was never happy with the hands-free uncoupling; there are a few ways to achieve it in 'N', but none of them are anywhere near 100% reliable, and they're all very fiddly in their own way. I ended up selling that little layout, but I do like wasting time shunting stuff round so I decided to give it a try in OO on the basis that hands-free coupling would be easier to achieve - although it was the very timely (at least for me) release of Peco's new bullhead points that actually kick-started this project.

 

This was my initial (very!) rough sketch:

 

 
After purchasing two points (one each hand), a length of flexi track, and a couple of wagons, I determined the required length of each siding, tweaked the overall dimensions (increased the length & height, but reduced the width) & built the baseboard - actually a 5-sided box:
 

 
Overall dimensions are 1400mm long, 400mm high, and 260mm deep; there's still a front to go on yet, which will be cut-out in the centre to frame the layout (and will block the glare from the lights that's visible in some of the pics!).Points are wire-in-tube, operated by slide switches at the front. Or at least, they will be, when I fit them! Until then, it's all hand-of-God.

 

The track was glued onto cork, with droppers soldered to the underside of the rails, and tested, before spraying with RailMatch 'Sleeper Grime', and then ballasting (the ballast still needs cleaning up a bit, and then weathering). I've also recently purchased the Ratio point rodding and lever frame kits, and will be adding those. In reality it's unlikely these points would have had a lever frame & rodding (just a single lever adjacent to each point) but I like them & am claiming modeller's licence. ​  In retrospect, perhaps I should have done those before ballasting, rather than afterwards...   
 
Inspiration for the (future) look of the layout came from Dean Clough Mills which is local to me, and is a complex of many large & imposing mills. There used to be a goods line into the complex from North Bridge Station in Halifax, and there were several wagon turntables allowing wagons to be shunted into the mills (one of which is still in place in one of the car parks). So i decided that the tracks would be surrounded by large, stone-built mills. Here's one of the mills, designed & drawn in SketchUp & a mock-up printed out:

 

 

There will be several more; basically, almost the whole of the 3 sides of the layout will be covered by similar structures, and I want it to feel claustrophobic. I looked around for suitable large mill kits, but nothing really exists in plastic, nor even in card kits - I've found that, without exception, kits of 'large mills' aren't actually that large; they're of quite small mills, and are also significantly under-scale it terms of ceiling heights, window sizes, etc. (the one I've designed has 8'x4' windows and 12' ceilings, which are pretty average for mills of this type). The mills themselves will be scratchbuilt; more on that later, possibly in another topic.

 

I decided to add a non-functioning wagon turntable, with a track going off it into one of the mills. This was scratchbuilt, with code 100 FB rail soldered to a 48mm dia circle of veroboard, and infilled with plasticard:

 

 

 

 

It's far from perfect (the rails are a bit wonky, they're significantly wider than the bullhead rails, and I made the infills a little too high which makes cleaning the track impossible without damaging the paint) but overall I'm pretty pleased with how it turned out. At least all my stock runs over it without stopping, stalling or derailing!

 

The two buffer stops are L&Y style from Lanarkshire Models, inserted into the sleepers from the Peco flexitrack. I replaced the supplied whitemetal buffer beams with coffee stirrers (doubled up) to avoid any possibility of short-circuiting the tracks:

 

 

The centre siding will eventually go into a mill across the end of the layout, hence no buffers required.

 

I've looked at various methods for achieving the uncoupling, and am hoping to use a method employed on a couple of exhibition layouts I've seen; remove the lift arm from one end of each wagon (and from the loco) and have a tuft of grass that lifts the arm as the trucks are pushed over it. I hope that makes sense, I can't think of a better description. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, and can point me in the direction of any threads about such a technique, I'd be grateful for the help (search boxes are great, but only if you know the correct terms to search for!).

 

I think that's it for now. I'll hopefully be posting regular updates in this topic, but if anyone has any questions I'll be happy to answer if I can.

 

 

Jonathan

[jcm@gwr]

Hello Jonathan,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Nice little layout, looking good!

 

Jeff

[Alex TM]

Hi Jonathan,

 

Welcome to RMweb.

 

That track looks fantastic; only the tie-bars on the points give away that it's not something like EM or P4.

 

The wagon turntable is really quite clever, too.

 

Good luck with this.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[Gordon A]

Have you seen the Scale scenes factory card kit. Lt looks like it could be modified to meet your needs.

 

https://scalescenes.com/product/t026a-factory-warehouse/

 

Gordon A

[marc smith]

Hi Jonathan,
Welcome back to railway modelling. I too had a lengthy absence, for quite a number of years, in fact, I'm sort of on another one now, as I don't get much modelling time lately.

A shunting puzzle of this sort of size is a great project, as it doesn't take up too much space / money / time etc. And like you, many of us like to lose an hour just shunting wagons about. It's more fun than it might sound at first. I can often lose far more time than I had intended, when I originally just wanted to test some new couplings on a single wagon - before I know it, I started adding further wagons, tried another loco etc etc

I like the fact that you wanted a "claustrophobic" feel to this layout. It can be hard to achieve that without the layout itself looking small, or often, the layout appears short because of the composition & layout of the buildings..., So good luck with achieving that "hemmed in" atmosphere. Re large buildings, factories & warehouses - Skytrex do some great modular resin building components. You can build them in low relief form, or full depth. The parts are interchangeable and you can swap different elements, such as loading doors / bays or plain wall, or different window sizes.... Though buying quite a number can be expensive. (a tip here - if you see Skytrex at a show, take a look in their bargain box - sometimes they sell imperfect castings. But you can adapt / repair these)

I wouldn't be concerned about the different rail on the wagon TT - or worry about any wonky track - just take a look at any old yard.... there are often wonky rails, far-from-smooth rail joints, and sagging tracks etc. If we modelled such features as per real life, we'd never get anything running! lol  Really like the look of this project - will follow with interest. Keep up the good work

EDIT: There are several versions of auto-coupling around. I won't attempt to list them here
But as for the method you describe - I've seen Stubby (Stu) do a similar thing, whereby he attaches a bent piece of paper-clip to the dropper on a standard tension lock coupling - and a magnet is used, to attract the paper clip... raising the tension lock... This might be a more reliable method than using tufts of grass? I've also seen modellers use a neat little trick, involving a wooden plank walkway, which is hinged at one end, and a bar underneath the baseboard, which raises the walkway to uncouple... Sounds odd - but when a wagon is parked on top of it - you don't really notice the walkway lifting at one end....

Edited January 3, 2018 by marc smith

[Jerry1975]

Hi Jonathon.

 

Looking good, your wagon turntable looks good too.

 

Looking forward to more.

 

Jerry.

[JSModels]

Have you seen the Scale scenes factory card kit. Lt looks like it could be modified to meet your needs.

 

https://scalescenes.com/product/t026a-factory-warehouse/

 

Gordon A

Gordon,

 

Thanks. I did look at that warehouse (I even bought it) but it isn't quite the right architectural style, and it's a little on the small side. I know it could be expanded, but TBH I'm not a fan of card kits. No offence to anyone that is, I just think that no matter how much work you do to them, it always still looks like a card kit (to me anyway).

[JSModels]

Re large buildings, factories & warehouses - Skytrex do some great modular resin building components.

Marc,

 

Yes, when I started this project I had Skytrex in mind as I'd seen them at a show a few months ago - but I couldn't for the life of me remember the name, and thus couldn't find them online. I saw them again at Warley.

 

Unfortunately, the more modular products are only available in brick, not stone. They do do a couple of stone warehouse mouldings, but they're not really 'modular', they're a little under-scale, and to me they look a bit continental (possibly French?) in design. So it was a 'no' (or should that be 'non'?) on those, too.

 

I do have, as baldrick would say, a cunning plan for the warehouse(s). Hopefully it'll be more successful than his generally are! I'm away from home at the moment and trying to answer on my phone, so I'll leave it for now and post more details in a day or two.

 

Thanks to all.

 

 

Jonathan

[sb67]

Nice start Jonathan, I'll be following this with interest. I like the wagon turntable and I like the idea of an imposing warehouse. Keep up the good work.

Steve.

[JSModels]

A little bit of progress at the club this afternoon - I made a start on the point rodding:

 

 

 

 

Luckily I didn't have to remove much of the ballast I'd laid (though it did come up surpisingly easily!) just mainly where the rod goes under the rails to go to the second point which is off to the right. The first run is too short to require a compensator, but I think there'll need to be one in the second (somewhere near where 'comp' is written on the baseboard!). With it just being sidings there's obviously no need for FPL's either!

 

I glued it all to some plasticard strip to raise it up a little, as without it I think it'd be too close to the baseboard to get any groundwork around/under it. Didn't have time to get it all done, but hopefully will finish it off next time I'm there.

 

Really liked these Wills kits, but the instructions leave a little to be desired. For example, there's nothing to indicate how you go underneath a track as I've done (I just did the best I could!) or how it should connect to the ground frame. I've assumed that the rodding is connected to the lever below the pivot point, so that it moves like this:

 

 

If they connect above the pivot point, then the rodding would move in the other direction, in which case I'll need to change the levers to the pulled position.

 

Despite being far more fiddly to assemble than I expected, it's all surprisingly sturdy once it's glued together & stuck down. I'm hoping to get the other bit done on Tuesday evening, and then I can paint it & make a start on the groundwork.

 

 

I've done some more design & development work on the warehouse, too; what started as a fairly simple project to make just what I needed for this layout, has morphed into an entire modular construction system! The masters will hopefully be 3D printed, then moulds made from those, and the parts cast in resin. I'm just waiting on some test prints before I can finalise the design of the various modules (there are currently 21 separate modules, and I keep coming up with more!). This part of the project may take some time...

Edited January 6, 2018 by jrb

[andyram]

This looks a nice shunting puzzle project. I like these types of layouts and will follow with interest.

[emjay68]

I've used the magnetic method of uncoupling tension locks on my dockside layout which abounds with tight radius curves.

To get reliable coupling and un coupling, I've used Bachmann small tension locks on one end of wagons and have substituted the other end with plug in Dapol couplings( minus hooks) on the other end as there is a wider area for the tension lock to couple to and therefore increased reliability.

 

The Dapol couplings were sourced from Replica Railways. Warning, the pack contains 3 pairsof couplings, each pair with a different hieght  step between the plug and the coupling.

 

For older Mainline wagons, Bachmann do a sustitute coupling that is screwed in place of the Mainline tension lock. On the other end, just remove the mainline hook.

 

Nice Claustraphobic Inglenook, by the way.

[JSModels]

I finished installing the point rodding today:

 

 

Not a lot of progress really, but I don't like to rush things! 

[luke the train spotter]

Looks really good. Look forward to following your progress.

[JSModels]

Looks really good. Look forward to following your progress.

 

Thanks. I hope you're a patient man, because my progress is glacial!

 

There has been some work done, though. I've finally added the switches & rods for the two points, and wired the unifrogs to the switches:

 

 

You can see there's now a third switch in between them, too - I wasn't particularly happy with the loco on the Gaugemaster model W controller I was using; the slow running wasn't great, and it kept stalling no matter how much I cleaned the track. I started to look for a very basic and cheap DCC option, but they were all way more than I wanted to spend. The only one that seemed vaguely cheap enough was the Bachmann E-Z Command (available split from sets) but I really didn't like the size & style of the controller, as I wanted something hand-held.

 

Then I discovered some Roco LokMaus/Loco Mouse controllers on eBay that looked promising; I'd never come across them before, but after a bit of research I decided that one of those would be perfect. I was watching a couple of auctions, but then at the Pontefract show last weekend I was rummaging round on the ContiKits stall, and they had a complete set (controller, base station, transformer, and leads) there for the bargain price of £25, so I snapped it up. I then went to the DigiTrains stall & got a suitable 6-pin decoder with stay-alive (from DCC Concepts) for the 1F. Luckily there's just about room for the stay-alive under the chip without having to make any alterations to the loco, and after a bit of playing about with the settings, the loco was running superbly. I don't really know how much difference having the stay-alive makes, as it's very small capacity (no-where can I find anything that states what the size of the capacitor(s) actually is) but it does run very well.

 

 

Also last week I picked up another wagon from eBay, so I now have 6 of the 8 needed.

 

One other change that I've not mentioned previously - I've changed the LED strip along the front of the layout. Originally I fitted some that came from Ikea & must be getting on for 10 years old, but they were only temporary. The replacement lighting consists of a length of dual-chip (warm white + cool white) LED strip, with a basic remote controller allowing me to adjust the colour temperature and brightness, and 3x 450mm lengths of aluminium 45 degree LED channel to hold it in. The layout is 1400mm long, so allowing for the thickness of the end boards, the 3 pieces at a total of 1350mm long were perfect, and I didn't even need to cut any of the channel!

 

This little lot came to a grand total of just £22.86 delivered, and I still have over 3 and a half metres of the LED strip to use on something else! The combination of warm and cool LEDs gives a lovely daylight feel, and the diffuser gives it an even spread of light:

 

 

I really need to get some more work done on the buildings now though!

[JSModels]

Another very small update - I've been working on the automatic uncoupling system I'm going to use, and yes - I've changed my mind! After a bit more research I've decided to try a variation* of the Brian Kirby method. I think it's the same one Marc mentioned ages ago at the beginning of this thread, using magnets and staples.

 

*I say a variation because I'm removing the dropper from one end of all the trucks (and the loco) so there's only one to lift, not two.

 

First off, I ordered a selection of small magnets from eBay, as I had no idea what size would work best & knew some testing would be involved. They're all neodymium, grade N35:

 

 

From left to right, they are 2mm dia x 3mm long; 3mm dia x 4mm long; 4mm dia x 4mm long; and 5mm dia x 3mm long.

 

Whilst I was waiting for them to arrive, and to make testing them a bit easier, I made a small test rig duplicating the construction of the layout:

 

 

That's 6mm ply, 2mm cork, and a spare piece of the bullhead track.

 

The next step was to bend the staples, and attach them to the droppers on the couplings (they were removed from the couplings to make this a lot easier):

 

 

before refitting them to the NEM couplings:

 

 

I started testing with the smallest magnets, and worked my way up; the 2x3mm and 3x4mm weren't strong enough, but the 4x4mm ones were perfect. You can see one mounted between the 3rd & 4th sleepers from the left, with the top of the magnet flush with the top of the cork layer:

 

 

I've now got to test this arrangement on the actual layout to make sure the ballast doesn't interfere with the magnetic field in any way (there's no reason why it should, but you never know for certain until you try!) which hopefully I can do at the club tomorrow, but on the workbench it works perfectly:

 

 

The magnets are just strong enough to lift the coupling when the truck is pushed (i.e. when there's zero tension on the dropper) but when the truck is pulled the dropper can't lift (because it's in tension) thus avoiding unwanted uncoupling.

 

Here's a very short video of the test:

 

[JSModels]

Oh, and whilst I'm remembering to put videos up, here's one I shot the other week with the loco running beautifully on the DCC controller:

 

 

This isn't the slowest speed it will run, though - on the very slowest setting (and with very clean track!) I timed it at well over 3 minutes (around 3:15, IIRC) to go from one end of the layout to the other. Taking into account the length of the loco, that's 400mm  (16") per minute, which I think is pretty darn good for a budget DCC controller (even if it's painfully slow to watch!).

[luke the train spotter]

Oh, and whilst I'm remembering to put videos up, here's one I shot the other week with the loco running beautifully on the DCC controller:

 

https://youtu.be/OoKxkLtnaXo

 

This isn't the slowest speed it will run, though - on the very slowest setting (and with very clean track!) I timed it at well over 3 minutes (around 3:15, IIRC) to go from one end of the layout to the other. Taking into account the length of the loco, that's 400mm (16") per minute, which I think is pretty darn good for a budget DCC controller (even if it's painfully slow to watch!).

Better to be running too slow than too fast. I think high speed shunters on shunting layouts kind of ruin them so nice to see you have a good slow speed shunter.

[JSModels]

Better to be running too slow than too fast. I think high speed shunters on shunting layouts kind of ruin them so nice to see you have a good slow speed shunter.

Thanks Luke,

 

I've limited the top speed too (another benefit of DCC) so there can be no unrealistic speeding on the layout!

[luke the train spotter]

Thanks Luke,

 

I've limited the top speed too (another benefit of DCC) so there can be no unrealistic speeding on the layout!

 

Well done! A definite need on most shunting layouts and if anyone else who doesn't do model trains opperates your they cant destroy your locos by driving them at 100000000000000000000 mph into a buffer stop.

[JSModels]

Today I installed the magnets on the layout, and fitted the modified droppers to all the wagons, and gave it a thorough test. One of the droppers needed a slight tweak with a pair of pliers (as it was a little higher than the rest) but other than that it all worked perfectly. Here's a little video showing the couplers in action:

 

 

Still to do:

 

Paint the staples black;

Buy 2 more wagons (I only have 6 of the 8 required at the minute).

 

Oh, and do some actual work on the buildings/scenics...

[JSModels]

It's been a while, but I've finally got somewhere with the warehouse/buildings on the layout. By that, I don't mean I've actually made anything physical yet, but I have made some progress...

 

You may recall from my initial post that I was looking for big structures, but couldn't find what I was looking for. So, I decided to make my own modular system. The idea was that I'd draw up a series of interconnecting modules in CAD, then get one of each 3D printed, and use them as masters to cast multiples of them in resin. I started drawing up various ideas & designs, and that went through various iterations before I reached a point where I simply couldn't get it quite right, but couldn't work out why. I decided to leave it alone for a while, and I came back to it yesterday with fresh eyes.

 

I'd already sketched out a rough idea of the overall design of each module, I just needed to finalise those and add all the details. I'd also done some test prints to establish some of those details. For example, I printed a couple of window modules with glazing bars that were 0.6 x 0.6mm, which is roughly 2 inches in 4mm scale. That was within the limits of the printer, but physically they were just too weak, so I increased them to 1 x 1mm. They're well overscale at 3" (a full-scale glazing bar on this type of window would be half that) but it looks OK. I would put a picture in of these test prints, but I can't find them!

 

Here's a test print I did to determine what width & depth the mortar courses needed to be, with 2 coats of brushed Railmatch acrylic:

 

 

And here's an identical one, with a (very badly applied!) simple dark grey wash to highlight the mortar courses:

 

 

Each of those test prints had 6 repeating sections, with different width/depth combinations. Those at the bottom were near correct scale, but too small in the model. The two at the top were too big, but like Goldilocks' porridge the ones in the middle were much better, and in the end I decided on a compromise between those 2.

 

I also experimented with various ways to create a realistic rough stone texture to each block. It was extremely difficult and time consuming, but in the end you couldn't really see it once it was painted & weathered. So, I stuck with just making them rectangular blocks, which is much, much easier!

 

The first module I drew up was the one I'll need most of, the Double Window Module:

 

 

To try to cut down on repeating the same stone pattern, I've actually done 2 versions of this, with the second one having a slightly different pattern. The disadvantage of doing them in 'random' stone, rather than regular brick! I may even do a third.

 

The other modules are variations on that one, and are a Door/Window Module:

 

 

There's obviously the possibility of doing a mirror-image version of this.

 

Warehouse Door Module:

 

 

And the last of the 'standard' modules is the pier that joins them together, which is 2x modules high:

 

 

Again, I've done a second pier with a different stone pattern to reduce repetition.

 

I also wanted a version of the warehouse door that could be used for rolling stock, so there's an extended version (the same width, just taller):

 

 

And the same, without the door:

 

 

The opening in this is the correct loading gauge for 4mm stock (the horizontal bars were just added in to try to stop it warping, and will be cut out) .Because of the extra height, I then needed some extension modules to bring the standard ones up to the same height Here's the plain one:

 

 

And one with steps, for the door module:

 

 

The modules all fit together with tongues & grooves in all the right places, so you can build up pretty much any combination you want. Here's a quick example:

 

 

And the same, in a stone (ish) colour, with the edges turned off & a light source to show the textures:

 

 

That's it in theory, anyway! There are still a lot of modules to draw up, including tower modules (the sticky-out end bits on the initial mock-up pictured at the beginning of the thread) and corner modules. I've ordered a final test print of some of the modules I have drawn up, so I can make sure they fit together properly, and then make some moulds. If I can't reliably cast these in resin, then the whole thing's a waste of time, really - I certainly can't afford to 3D print all the multiples I'll need!

 

 

 

To clarify - I'm getting these printed in FUD from Shapeways; it's not cheap by any means, but I want the masters to be as clean & crisp as possible. The resolution of cheaper home printers isn't really suitable for this, I don't think. I've bundled the modules together for printing to keep the costs down:

 

 

Even so, just for these few modules the cost (before discounts/voucher codes, anyway) is getting towards the cost of a small shunting loco!

 

 

JRB

Edited March 17, 2018 by jrb

[dpaws]

It's been a while, but I've finally got somewhere with the warehouse/buildings on the layout. By that, I don't mean I've actually made anything physical yet, but I have made some progress...

 

To clarify - I'm getting these printed in FUD from Shapeways; it's not cheap by any means, but I want the masters to be as clean & crisp as possible. The resolution of cheaper home printers isn't really suitable for this, I don't think. I've bundled the modules together for printing to keep the costs down:

 

ModuleStack02PTP.jpg

 

Even so, just for these few modules the cost (before discounts/voucher codes, anyway) is getting towards the cost of a small shunting loco!

 

 

JRB

 

I'm curious - what are the dimensions overall, and what's the cost of printing a complete "set"? Much obliged...

[Enterprisingwestern]

I like claustrophobic urban layouts and will be following your project with interest.

A couple of observations/questions, (not criricisms!)

As it will be a small, well detailed layout, are you likely to rethink the wagon turntable and make it an operating one for further interest?, your 3D skills seem to make it an ideal candidate for re drawing, although there's nothing wrong with the detail on the existing one.

Speaking as someone with zero practical experience in matters S&T, but wouldn't the lever frame have been located at the front side of the trackwork to simplify the rodding? It's placement and "complication" of the rodding runs looks a bit jarring in my eyes.

Also, the modular brickwork looks interesting, keep us informed of developments for those of us without your skills.

 

Mike.

[JSModels]

I'm curious - what are the dimensions overall, and what's the cost of printing a complete "set"? Much obliged...

The overall size of the stack pictured is 134 x 67 x 29mm, with a material volume of 64.58mm2. Cost for that from Shapeways in FUD is around £90, without any discount codes.

 

JRB