Haigh Sidings - Inglenook Shunting Layout - OO Gauge

[JSModels]

As it will be a small, well detailed layout, are you likely to rethink the wagon turntable and make it an operating one for further interest?, your 3D skills seem to make it an ideal candidate for re drawing, although there's nothing wrong with the detail on the existing one.

 

I am thinking about remaking the turntable due to the fact that the infil around the rails is a little too high & makes cleaning the rails very tricky. If I were to, I'd probably make it a working one just for the challenge, but I can't see it adding anything to the operational interest as a) moving the wagon off it at 90 degrees would be nigh on impossible (although I have seen motorised wagons done before), and b) there's not really anywhere for them to go anyway.

 

 

"Speaking as someone with zero practical experience in matters S&T, but wouldn't the lever frame have been located at the front side of the trackwork to simplify the rodding? It's placement and "complication" of the rodding runs looks a bit jarring in my eyes.

The rodding and lever frame is wrong anyway, since it simply wouldn't have been there in real life; there would have just been a ground lever next to each point. I added the rodding just because I wanted to try the ratio kits, and put the lever frame on the mill side as I figured that would be easier for the workers to get to from the loading platform. Plus, if it was on the other side I'd no doubt destroy it when cleaning the track on a regular basis...

 

 

JRB

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

I am thinking about remaking the turntable due to the fact that the infil around the rails is a little too high & makes cleaning the rails very tricky. If I were to, I'd probably make it a working one just for the challenge, but I can't see it adding anything to the operational interest as a) moving the wagon off it at 90 degrees would be nigh on impossible (although I have seen motorised wagons done before), and b) there's not really anywhere for them to go anyway.

 

 

The rodding and lever frame is wrong anyway, since it simply wouldn't have been there in real life; there would have just been a ground lever next to each point. I added the rodding just because I wanted to try the ratio kits, and put the lever frame on the mill side as I figured that would be easier for the workers to get to from the loading platform. Plus, if it was on the other side I'd no doubt destroy it when cleaning the track on a regular basis...

 

 

JRB

 

Not that I'm trying to create work for you, but,

A few of these;

 

http://www.lanarkshiremodels.com/lanarkshiremodelsandsupplieswebsite_156.htm

 

and a length of this;

 

https://www.maritime-models.co.uk/acatalog/model-ship-rigging-thread.html

 

and away you go!

 

I remember a layout at one of the RMWeb open days operating in such a fashion, fascinating watching it.

 

Mike.

[dpaws]

The overall size of the stack pictured is 134 x 67 x 29mm, with a material volume of 64.58mm2. Cost for that from Shapeways in FUD is around £90, without any discount codes.

 

JRB

 

I feared as much... I guess you'd save a tiny amount by scaling it down to HO for a back-scene to force perspective a little - but obviously to reproduce your full building puts it into commissioned scatch-build territory.  Despite this I'm still sorta tempted! 

 

Does the 29mm include the steps - and how much further out from the steps would you expect the rail-side edge of a loading bay?

[JSModels]

Not that I'm trying to create work for you, but,

A few of these;

 

http://www.lanarkshiremodels.com/lanarkshiremodelsandsupplieswebsite_156.htm

 

and a length of this;

 

https://www.maritime-models.co.uk/acatalog/model-ship-rigging-thread.html

 

and away you go!

 

I remember a layout at one of the RMWeb open days operating in such a fashion, fascinating watching it.

 

Mike.

Cheers Mike - I might well use those!

 

JRB

[JSModels]

Does the 29mm include the steps - and how much further out from the steps would you expect the rail-side edge of a loading bay?

Yes, it includes the steps. The loading Bay would be quite a bit further out, but I'd probably do that a bit differently anyway.

 

 

Shapeways are on the ball - I ordered the print on Saturday around noon; I got an email from them less than 24 hours later to say it had been checked, approved, printed, and was on it's way to me already! Should arrive tomorrow, or Wednesday at the latest.

 

JRB

[JSModels]

The Shapeways delivery arrived yesterday as promised, and everything looks really good!

 

One minor note for future reference - it's all very well stacking multiple items closely together to try to keep the costs as low as possible, but it's also good to leave enough room between them that you can actually fit a tool in between them to cut the supports! I've done a tiny amount of (repairable) damage to one of the modules, as I had to basically prise some apart as I couldn't cut the support. The FUD is great, but it's extremely brittle!

 

Anyway, here's the stack pretty much as it arrived (I had cut a couple of bits off already):

 

 

 

They were so close together (as little as 0.5mm in places) that there was quite a bit of the support wax still present, so the first job after separating them was to give them a good clean with warm soapy water & an old toothbrush. Then I trimmed back the last bits of the supports, and checked to see if they fitted together - and they do!!!

 

 

 

On the warehouse door module, you can see a 'ghost' image of the left-hand door module. This is because that was printed above it, so there was support wax on some areas & not on others, and the surface is very slightly different. This shouldn't be noticeable once there's a dusting of primer on them (I'm going to spray them before I make the moulds, since it's very difficult to see what's going on with them because they're so translucent!):

 

 

Here's the larger height warehouse door module, and the extension modules too:

 

 

I couldn't stand those up, as the support columns would need trimming to length.

 

Next up I need to spray them, check them, make any minor alterations, and then I can start making some moulds...

 

 

JRB

[luke the train spotter]

This is such a good idea. I look forward to seeing how the modular buildings progress

[JSModels]

Today was another good day for progress; firstly, I got a couple of light coats of primer on all the modules. After drying, I got a few pictures of them on the layout:

 

 

 

A close-up of the door and step modules:

 

 

And the extended open door, showing the clearance around a wagon; there's way more space than I expected, particularly on the height:

 

 

I also got a few pictures of my latest aquisition; another LMS 1F, this time the closed-cab version, so I now have a choice of loco to run on here. I picked it up for a very good price, mainly because the toolbox at the front was missing:

 

 

Since I was getting the modules printed, I made a very quick 3D model of the missing box, using the one on the open-cab 1F to get the measurements from, and got a couple of those printed at the same time. Once painted it looks pretty good, and once the loco is weathered you'll never be able to tell!

 

 

 

The modules are now bonded into some shallow trays I made, ready for pouring the rubber mould (I ordered that, along with some casting resin yesterday, and should get it all on Monday). I'm hoping to get chance to get the mould made, and get a few resin copies made to prove that the whole concept works, before next weekend; if the castings come out ok, and this project looks like it's going to be successful, I can then order the rest of the modules from Shapeways before the BRM discount code expires at the end of the month!

 

 

JRB

[JSModels]

OK, I need a bit of advice regarding the large door opening. Originally, I put the large lintel right to the top of the module to give as much space as possible in the opening, even though it interrupted the continuous stone 'floor line' (for want of a better phrase!) as per the module pictured above.

 

Now I'm thinking that, since there's ample space, I could restore the 'floor line' stones, and put the lintel under those.

 

Here it is as originally planned:

 

 

And the proposed lower version:

 

 

This would still give enough space for rolling stock to fit in. Which do you all think looks better?

 

 

JRB

Edited March 24, 2018 by jrb

[luke the train spotter]

I think you would have just enough room to clear the stock as long as you don't have any significant roof vents on it. Personally I prefer the lower one but I think they look equally good but the thing is with industrial buildings there wasn't really a standard design for everything so you could use either.

[Guest ShildonShunter]

Great work on the modules jrb and the box on the LMS loco is nicely done looking forward to seeing more.

[JSModels]

The rubber and resin arrived yesterday as expected, so last night I was able to pour the initial moulds:

 

 

I could say that the different shades of grey were a result of me experimenting with the amount of catalyst used in the rubber; in truth it was just a **** up on my part!

 

They were left roughly 24 hours to cure, and then earlier tonight I pulled the moulds, and they were way better than I could have hoped - hardly any air bubbles in them, very little clean-up required either. I was so excited I forgot to take any pictures of the moulds before I mixed & poured the first castings:

 

 

 

This resin cures quickly. And I mean, really quickly. It starts going off in 2-3 minutes, so you have to work fast. It mixes clear, but then becomes opaque white as it cures, which is cool because you can literally see it going off, here it is just starting to go under the window:

 

 

First castings:

 

 

 

 

I was able to take these out of the moulds within about 1/2 hour, so I managed to get 3 sets made in a pretty short space of time. I need to do some experimenting to determine the best level to fill the moulds to (too little and you miss some details, too much, and there's more flashing in the windows to clean up) but once I've got the hang of it I figure I can get quite a few made in a couple of hours. Here's the first couple of batches just loosely assembled:

 

 

And here's some with a bit of cleaning up done (though there's still a little bit more to do):

 

 

Again, these aren't glued, just pushed together.

 

I'm really pleased with how this has worked out. I haven't done any resin casting for about 25 years, since my dad and I built this OO gauge model of the viaduct in Todmorden, for the Tod MRS layout. That was in polyester resin, with moulds from homemade masters:

 

 

That's the only picture I have of that layout (the days before digital cameras!) and I've no idea what happened to that layout; I assume it got broken up when the club folded (I was no longer a member when it did, I was in my late teens IIRC, and had developed other interests...). If anyone has any other pictures or info about it, I'd be curious to know!

 

Anyway, back on topic. The last couple of evenings have convinced me that this is definitely the way to go with the buildings for the layout, so the next step is to order some more 3D printed masters, and make more moulds (and obviously more castings, too!).

 

JRB

[luke the train spotter]

Those moulds look amazing and congratulations on them - you've inspired me to want to have a go at it and I'm sure many others are thinking something similar. As well as looking great you will be able to save a but of cash I imagine as you wont have to buy all the stuff for industrial buildings now that you've got your modular system.

[Guest ShildonShunter]

As Luke says those are amazing moulds the details is nice and sharp.

[Philtown-Branch]

Hello Jonathan,

 

many thanks for showing the development of your shunting-puzzle-layout! I am very impressed of your simple magnetic uncoupling method, and I´m thinking about trying this method on my own Inglenook sidings at "Plankwell Yard".

 

Best regards,

 

Phil

 

P. S.: I will open an extra topic about my "Plankwell Yard" Layout soon.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Philtown-Branch

[JSModels]

Phil,

 

The uncoupling method is not mine, I copied it from others, but thank you.

 

Have just seen your thread, that's a very nice layout you've got there.

 

JRB

[dpaws]

Yes, it includes the steps. The loading Bay would be quite a bit further out, but I'd probably do that a bit differently anyway.

 

 

Shapeways are on the ball - I ordered the print on Saturday around noon; I got an email from them less than 24 hours later to say it had been checked, approved, printed, and was on it's way to me already! Should arrive tomorrow, or Wednesday at the latest.

 

JRB

 

My compliments! The 3D model looks amazing with the primer on it, almost too clean, but after the clean up the mouldings are surprisingly good - how many fills do you thing you'll get from each mould?

 

Will you be springing up onlne somewhere and offering both versions for sale?

[JSModels]

My compliments! The 3D model looks amazing with the primer on it, almost too clean, but after the clean up the mouldings are surprisingly good - how many fills do you thing you'll get from each mould?

The silicone is very durable, and I don't think there's a particular limit on how many castings I can get out of each. Obviously they won't last forever, but they last for years.

 

Will you be springing up onlne somewhere and offering both versions for sale?

That's a very good question, and one I've been pondering for some time. I have already been asked the same by a few others.

 

I realised pretty early on that there's potentially a market for this, and I've already developed the system on paper way beyond what I initially needed for this layout - for example, I could in theory build the warehouse I originally designed with as few as 9 different modules; so far I've got 26 drawn up & ready to print*, with at least the same number again as a rough outline, plus ideas in my head for even more that I haven't even sketched out yet!

 

*This includes duplications/variations of commonly used modules, e.g. four of the 2-window modules, identical other than a slightly different stone pattern (there's nothing worse than a 'random' pattern that repeats across every module!).

 

The other consideration is cost; with so many potential modules, the cost of 3D printing them runs to several hundred pounds at a minimum. Then there's the cost of making moulds of them all (which isn't nearly as much, but still considerable).

 

I wouldn't want to bring this to market with only part of the system available; it would have to be a complete offering from the get-go, and I fear I have neither the money nor the time to do it justice at the moment.

 

 

So the short answer is, I don't know yet!

[JSModels]

The layout is now set up and ready for our open day this coming Sunday, so if anyone wants to come and have a play, you're more than welcome.

 

AVRMC Open Day Spring 2018

[retiredoperator]

Hi JRB.  Very good. When I tried the tension lock staple idea , it worked fine, at first, but after a while the hooks fell off. I did write to the various manufacturers of the wagons, and they sent me some spare Couplings, but then I found Kadee, and I was hooked.   Happy Modelling Kev 

[JSModels]

Wow, nearly 18 months since I last updated this thread!

 

I haven't really done much modelling at all in the intervening period, I lost my mojo a bit, but it's slowly coming back. I have done a little bit more work on it, so a couple of updates:

 

Warehouse Modules:

 

I did quite a lot more work on these. Basically I got all the different modules drawn up (over 30 different ones!) & ready to print, however the total cost to get them all printed ran to several hundred pounds, which I didn't have. Also, I made loads more castings from the moulds I had, to work out the best/most efficient way of doing it. Doing this I discovered that the moulds weren't quite as good as I thought, and contained hundreds of tiny air bubbles just below the surface. As the moulds got more used, more and more of these holes became exposed, resulting in tiny little 'balls' of resin on the surface of the casting. The only way round this would be to 'de-gas' the rubber in a vacuum chamber after mixing, before pouring the moulds. Again, more investment that I couldn't afford to make.

 

I costed it all out as a business plan, and the figures just didn't add up. The price I'd have to charge for the castings is considerably more than I feel the vast majority of modellers would be willing to pay. This, combined with the lack of funds to invest, meant I abandoned the whole idea just over 12 months ago (this was partly to blame for the loss of mojo mentioned previously!)

 

The Layout:

 

Having abandoned the warehouse modules, I needed to go down a different route for the buildings I needed. A few people at the club had bought laser-cut MDF kits, and this looked like a promising option. There were no 'standard' kits that I felt were right, so having found someone willing to cut some of my own designs I set about trying to get some designs done.

 

Firstly, I used some polystyrene blocks, timber offcuts, etc to 'block out' where I wanted the buildings to go. From the left, we have a mill chimney in the back corner, and then a stone-piered, cast iron road bridge at an angle across the track. This will function to block the view of the left hand end of the layout where the track just ends (and IRL, would continue to the rest of the world):

 

 

This will be further obscured by other buildings to the front of the layout:

 

 

Progressing from this I drew the layout up in sketchup in order to block out the rest of the buildings in increasingly more detail:

 

 

 

The mill next to the wagon turntable is the only one I've draw in full detail yet; it's a big learning curve, but I've had some help from the guy who's hopefully going to be cutting it for me. I'm hoping to get this laser cut in the next week or two, and use this to enable me to be more efficient in designing the other buildings (I don't want to draw them all, get them all cut, and then find I've made a schoolboy error that affects all of them!). Plus, I want the buildings to differ from each other in terms of architecture, so hopefully they'll look like an evolving collection of buildings rather than all looking the same. Drawing them separately helps massively with this.

 

Here's a screenshot of the 2D drawing, done in LibreCAD:

 

 

This should (!) all fit together nicely; the 3D sketchup model of this building was created from this 2D drawing, so should eliminate any stupid mistakes (in fact it did help me spot, and correct, a dimensional error on the inner window skin).

 

I've also used the sketchup drawing to get an idea of how the layout will look with the facsia on:

 

 

 

 

The other buildings are shown just as blocks, and will be 'fleshed out' as each of them is designed.

 

Lastly, since it's a shunting puzzle (and therefore requires 8 noticeably different wagons) I decided that a wagon works would be a good reason for so many varied wagons. The layout now has a name, "Haigh Sidings", and the mills will represent the wagon works of "Frank Haigh & Son", in memory of my dad.

 

Hopefully, it won't be 18 months before the next update...

[Marly51]

I am very impressed with your resin casting system! It reminds me of the Linka system which used quite expensive rubber mould modules - the modelling medium being Plaster of Paris.

 

Marlyn

[JSModels]

2 hours ago, Marly51 said:

I am very impressed with your resin casting system! It reminds me of the Linka system which used quite expensive rubber mould modules - the modelling medium being Plaster of Paris.

 

Marlyn

 

Yes, I have fond memories of building buildings with the Linka system, my dad (also a railway modeller) had a pretty much full set of the moulds. It's a shame that it's not available any more. Occasionally a set comes up on eBay & I nearly buy it just for sentimental reasons!

[Marly51]

1 hour ago, jrb said:

 

Yes, I have fond memories of building buildings with the Linka system, my dad (also a railway modeller) had a pretty much full set of the moulds. It's a shame that it's not available any more. Occasionally a set comes up on eBay & I nearly buy it just for sentimental reasons!

 

Linka system still available: http://www.linkaonline.co.uk/linka-moulds.html 

[JSModels]

11 hours ago, Marly51 said:

 

Linka system still available: http://www.linkaonline.co.uk/linka-moulds.html 

Thanks, didn't know it was still available!