Should those who display at exhibitions engage with members of the public?

[2ManySpams]

Layout staffing numbers is also an interesting point to think about.

 

In the ideal world you'd take a spare operating team with you, to give everyone a break (toilet, food, sleep, look around the show). This would also provide resilience to have folk spare to talk to punters without disturbing the operators.

 

The issue is cost. Extra operators means extra fuel/vehicle/accommodation costs for the exhibition organiser. Some shows can cover the extra costs but most these days are looking for the lowest costs and therefore one casualty is the number of operators on a layout.

 

On all the layouts I've exhibited we have steadily reduced the number of operators taken to a show. For example Treneglos when first shown 14yrs ago had a crew of 5, generally 3 on and 2 off. This required two vehicles (car and hire van), two lots of fuel and 2-3 rooms for two nights. At the final few shows we were down to a crew of 2 or 3 which could halve our costs. In some cases even this was too steep for a smaller show and in some cases we paid part of the costs ourselves because we enjoyed doing the show.

 

Unfortunately this does result in the crew being over-subscribed trying to operate, answer questions and take a break to eat/drink/pee. We couldn't always devote time to someone asking questions without it affecting the operation being viewed by others.

 

That said, I do get brassed off when there are obviously plenty of space folk behind a layout who could easily engage but, for whatever reason, decide they can't be bothered or you don't fit in their little 'club'.

 

(Just to be clear I always like talking to and engaging with punters at shows, it can be very rewarding and often result in useful info being exchanged)

[Guest spet0114]

Slightly off topic, but only a bit....

 

Our club has a 'kids' layout - two loops of track and some basic scenery where little hands(*) can get control of Thomas and Percy. Running this layout is all about talking to the public, mainly the members who are under 10, but public nevertheless. That, and catching Thomas when he flies off at speed on the curves - something that happens roughly twice per circuit!

 

The reason I mention this is that at our most recent exhibition, I was on the roster - a task I approached with some trepidation. In the end it was by far the most rewarding thing I did that day and a stark contrast to my attempts to attract the attention of any of the operators of a large southern-themed layout when I noticed a derailment.

 

Cheers

Adrian

 

(*) - kids, not Trump. He's got other buttons to worry about.....

[Barry O]

If at all possible yes operators should engage with the people "outside" of the layout.

 

However, some of the "spectators" can start talking about the layout, stock, operation etc. as if the operators don't exist. And it is hard not to laugh or butt in to explain what is real rather than what they are imagining.

 

Baz

[Stubby47]

Where is it you're from Stu?

The clue is under my avatar picture...

[2ManySpams]

The clue is under my avatar picture...

Obviously pure coincidence Stu. We're always very pleased to see you, particularly when you bring the clotted cream, jam and scones...

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

I have yet to be a layout exhibitor but I have attended Warley as a member of a sales company ( who no longer goes due to rising costs against stagnant sales }.

 

It does seem a bit odd to go to an exhibition that involves members of the public being admitted only for the exhibitors to ignore them. I do appreciate that one needs to go for a break but one can bring a flask and sandwiches but I suppose that a bucket for discharge might be a step too far!

 

From my experience there are lulls in footfall on the stand and this is an opportunity to have a look round/eat something/have a comfort break. Most of these activities take minutes.

 

I am of the opinion that most exhibitions are more a chance for old friends to mingle and swap ideas among themselves.

[ardbealach]

Of course there is always the spectator who engages the operator in idle chat - very important idle chat to the spectator - and its usually trivial - and who continues idling chatting when the operator has more important matters requiring his / her immediate attention to keep things running for the other spectators.  The idle chatterer often is oblivious to all going around him and gets 'put out' when the operator excuses himself.   This 'excuse' is often an occasion when a stalled locomotive can bring a welcome break. .  

[roundhouse]

Don’t always assume that it’s operators chatting behind a layout.

 

Quite often it may be the organisers or even visitors who have been invited around the back to see the fiddleyard etc.

 

But yes we are all there with the layout to enjoy ourselves and do often have a chat as others have said otherwise it would just be like work but unpaid. We also appreciate that visitors are paying to see the layouts work so it’s not always easy to get the right balance and of course something will go wrong just when you are either short of operators or having a conversation with a visitor.

 

Sometimes I have been in a conversation with a visitor and have had to stop operating for a while but Luckily on most of our layouts we can have two or more operators as something will still be moving.

[Jamiel]

Thank you for all the replies, and especially thank you for keeping the discussion away from anything personal.

I feel some posts bring a wonderful balance to the topic pointing out that exhibiting for many hours has times when the exhibitors need to have a break, to chat among themselves and to make it possible to survive the day. I have not exhibited at model rail shows, although have worked the entry desk, but I have exhibited at computer graphics/video and film trade exhibitions, so I do know how long a day can be when you are stood waiting to show your skills and answer questions. I do know that at times you do need to just find a quiet place and chat with fellow exhibitors to get through it all.

I think one thing I should have said in the original post is that being a good modeller is not necessarily the same as being a good orator, or interviewee. In a similar way there are many times I have seen interviews with musicians I admire only to find they are excellent at communicating through music and not through their words.

I am also delighted to see some replies from those who I have been fortunate enough to have very rewarding conversations with at shows.

Jamie

Edited January 5, 2018 by Jamiel

[Gilbert]

I have small layouts in several scales but we always seem to end up with one of us talking about something to someone so we take often 3 of us and if shows are (genuinely) strapped we will contribute to costs as we enjoy it - we now operate where possible from the front and are happy to pause to chat - if you tell people what you are doing and why you are stopped they are usually very happy.

Regular topics include Kadees and DCC sound but I take people round the back to show then stuff as well - this includes baseboard joints, cassettes, weathering, stock storage etc - the list goes on.

We are also happy to pause and let people test run stuff  - I even have a yard of track with an extra DCC controller AND DC control available as we run DCC and I hate to see people buying bad runners....I do see some very iffy sales to the "innocent" from traders at some shows I go to...not often but it happens - don't forget - we are the face of the hobby to the new recruits...

Chris

[tamperman36]

When ever I have been at a show as an exhibitor I have tried to talk to the public when they have asked, however I have also operated several layouts on which certain operators have to concentrate on the actual layout operation, such as loading stone trains. On such layouts its generally better to have a spare operator who can talk to the public. Personally I would always talk to the public to help keep the interest in the hobby and I believe that as an exhibitor you should talk to the public, afterall if they didn't pay to visit the shows, we wouldn't be able to take our layouts out.

[justin1985]

Exhibitors have a duty to entertain paying visitors. I completely agree that exhibitors have a should always engage with paying visitors. I would even say it is quite wrong for exhibitors to chat with each other (unless it is pertinent to the running of the layout) when there are paying visitors who may wish to speak with them. 

 

"I've paid therefore I have the right to your attention" is a very crude and transactional attitude to what is still a hobby and a voluntary activity for everyone involved. Exhibitors might get paid expenses, but you still always end up out of pocket, one way or another, after a weekend at an exhibition. If nothing else, these people are giving up their time freely to be there.

 

Of course, when someone has a question or wants to see something up close, or to chat about the prototype or whatever, the operators should do their best to help, and I always do. But it is going too far to say that it is not legitimate for them to talk amongst themselves about expenses (which almost always have to be dealt with before a certain time on the day - no come back for anything sent in later), or just chat with fellow operators who might have come from the opposite end of the country to operate. On one recent show with the layout I help operate, one of the operators had flown in from the USA (at his own cost) specially to help operate - was he not allowed to have a chat with fellow operators he hadn't seen for the past year?

 

If people want to trot out the "I'm a paying customer" attitude, you should remember not only that the operators don't make a penny from your entry fee, but that as a fundamentally voluntary activity that usually only just covers its costs, the overall fee for a model railway show is remarkably low compared to any other organised weekend activity. If you see yourself first and foremost as a customer, and want "professional" customer service, perhaps you should consider what a model railway show would cost, and be like, with operators being paid employees at your beck and call? Its certainly not the kind of experience I'd want, on either side of the layout.

 

Don't get me wrong, there is no excuse for rudeness or disrespect on the part of operators, and of course they should engage so far as is feasible at the particular time, but please do remember that they are volunteers, and part of the reason they give their time up will be for the social side of the show too.

 

J

[wombatofludham]

In my limited experience of exhibiting "Kings Oak", which wasn't the most operationally challenging or engaging layout to be truthful, I always made an effort to engage with viewers as that was the purpose of the layout - to show what a newbie, or returning more senior modeller could achieve in a relatively small space. It was at a kid-friendly height, and with modern trains they could recognise it would often attract youngsters with a slightly bored parent in tow, so I would always try to strike up a conversation with the parent as well as the child, helped when I added the "Crossroads Motel" module which would often gain a laugh or two from older members of the public. Once the ice was broken, quite a few people were interested in how much you could cram into a small space and how being dismountable it could provide a solution for their own circumstances. At least twice a wife has said to a bloke "I could live with something like that in the conservatory/spare room" after I explained how with a more involving trackplan you could easily turn it into a small yard, or a country branch terminus!

 

I have to admit I've never had anyone criticise the layout or be an a*se, and although a lot of work and very tiring I felt I had done my evangelising role for railway modelling in a positive way and hopefully some people went away thinking they could do something similar. Sometimes at exhibitions you see the superb Club layouts, large and with high levels of professionalism and come away feeling a bit dispirited, thinking "I'll never achieve that". Then there was King's Oak, the equivalent of a cake made out of a packet as everything was either kit built, kit bashed or RTP buildings, and RTR stock, and you could show your mistakes and bodges whilst having a light hearted chat about Crossroads. People seemed to respond to it in a way that got them thinking, which is what it was all about for me.

 

Now I've given up the exhibition circuit and the layout has a new owner, but I am still involved in a way with exhibiting through the former Liverpool MRC "Dolgellau" layout. Because it is a permanent exhibition on it's own, public engagement is vital and again, people respond positively, whether it's talking about the scenery and history of Dolgellau station, or with enthusiasts interested in the model itself.

 

So yes, interaction is vital. On larger layouts, perhaps to avoid potential clashes with operating issues, it might help to have perhaps a wife, partner or other member of the team appointed to interact with people at busy times. We do this with the Dolgellau layout and it's amazing how positively people respond to it.

[Chamby]

When taking a club layout to exhibitions, we always have a planning meeting beforehand to review arrangements and crewing requirements. A more local one-day exhibition requires one crew and a couple of relief operators. We always like to have at least one person clearly there to answer questions, and everyone follows a pre-determined rota, so also gets a scheduled time out for mooching round the rest of the exhibition, getting their lunch etc. More intense exhibitions like Warley require two full teams in order to cover all the requirements for the visitors and operators alike.

 

It is a very different proposition when you exhibit your own layout. Yes you can take a couple of mates with you to help operate it, but you tend to be ‘it’ when questions are asked. It can be much harder to get It all right, especially at the bigger shows. I think this is where a certain type of visitor (from Truro or otherwise) needs to be more understanding and patient at times. I have learnt the hard way that exhibiting my own layout is best suited to smaller, one day shows simply because of these logistics.

[Ravenser]

 

 

 

 

Catch 22 situation - been there, done that.

 

I had a small shunting layout that was operated from the front - even the stock storage was under the layout and very visible, and thus easy to engage the public.  It was a one-man (*) operated layout and once someone asks questions about a particular model or aspect of the layout, it becomes very difficult to carry on shunting. It wasn't like we could leave a train to go round.

 

(*) There were usually two of us taking the layout to a show, but more likely than not, the secondman would be away on a break/looking around rather than available to chat.

 

.......

 

I note that the majority of replies from above are from exhibitors who are willing to engage. And I reckon that most exhibitors will interact with the public in the right circumstances as after all, we are making an exhibition of ourselves.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

 

I have increasingly ambivalent feelings about this issue. 

 

The layout has been out 3 times (plus a small "open day" type event) . It's a small terminus /fiddle yard layout operated from the front by a single operator and more often than not unbarriered  Two operators go to the show, and my firm intention is to work one hour on/one hour off through the day. It's not a club layout - everything is my personal responsibility. I try to deliver something a little more advanced than the manual equivalent of a Gaugemaster shuttle unit

 

I've read many minatory threads on various sites over the years laying down the law to layout owners and operators about the fraud they are committing against the spectators if they fail to deliver continuous high intensity operation throughout the day. It's generally agreed that layouts have an absolute duty to deliver a very high level of reliability , otherwise they'll be off the circuit

 

And there's a demand for operators to interact continuously with the spectators 

 

I do try to interact with those watching - operating from the front unbarriered makes you very open to the public. I also try to keep things moving - that means delivering a couple of movements a minute (On an 8'6 long layout you're pushed to make a movement last 10 seconds) 

 

But I'm increasingly uncomfortably aware that operational standards are not as flawless as I would wish, that 95% of problems /derailments are down to operator error (the operator forgot to set the road/ the operator forgot which train he meant to move, and moved one for which he hadn't set the road / the operator was distracted and walloped the buffers/ the operator didn't quite rerail everything properly after one of the preceding.. etc).

 

And I'm becoming conscious that these errors happen when I'm trying to operate while holding a conversation with a punter. Often setting off a vicious circle of errors 

 

I'm starting to suspect that a) the public require high intensity operation, flawless reliability all day long, and showman levels of personal interaction and b) you can deliver any two of those at one time.  But not three....

 

And I would respectfully suggest that if I've asked someone to give up a day of his life to help me exhibit my layout, spending the whole day blanking him is not good form

Edited January 5, 2018 by Ravenser

[Edwardian]

It may just be me, though I hope not, but I find that viewing any given layout is enhanced by a chat with the operator and learning something more about it, the 'hows' and 'whys'.

 

If this were not the case, there'd be no point in having words as well as pictures when layouts feature in magazines.

 

I like 'information sheets' as part of the display, but they are a means to a more informed conversation with the operator, not a substitute for one.

 

No one has yet hidden on perceiving my approach, so I conclude that, subject to the demands of operating, most exhibitors are happy to chat.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Edwardian

[SM42]

I think that for the ultimate exhibition experience there has to be give and take on both sides of any conversation so that both exhibitor and viewer don't get frustrated, distracted or disheartened. There can be no excuse for rudeness on either side. 

 

I spent a very enjoyable week-end at Warley with our club's small demo layout which was designed to get people talking and it did exactly that. (We do like to talk and I do apologise if I forced you to talk to me. )  However you can get a poorly timed question on occasion and a polite request to "hold on a moment please " while you try not to ram a loco though the end of the layout has yet to be met with any sort of negative comeback.

 

So yes, talking is great and great fun and I've learnt a lot over the years and I hope I have encouraged and enlightened too,  but it can even more rewarding when both sides of the conversation can appreciate that occasionally other things are going on as well and make allowances so that full attention can be given as appropriate.

 

What I do find extremely frustrating is when you are mid conversation and someone comes along who is obviously known to the exhibitor / visitor and  suddenly the conversation shifts to how are the kids, the dog or whatever and suddenly you don't exist anymore. This happens a lot more than you would think. Perhaps I'm just boring .. 

 

Andy

 

 

Andy 

[Dick Turpin]

Just in case anyone else hasn't offered this answer - YES

[2ManySpams]

When taking a club layout to exhibitions, we always have a planning meeting beforehand to review arrangements and crewing requirements. A more local one-day exhibition requires one crew and a couple of relief operators. We always like to have at least one person clearly there to answer questions, and everyone follows a pre-determined rota, so also gets a scheduled time out for mooching round the rest of the exhibition, getting their lunch etc. More intense exhibitions like Warley require two full teams in order to cover all the requirements for the visitors and operators alike.

It is a very different proposition when you exhibit your own layout. Yes you can take a couple of mates with you to help operate it, but you tend to be ‘it’ when questions are asked. It can be much harder to get It all right, especially at the bigger shows. I think this is where a certain type of visitor (from Truro or otherwise) needs to be more understanding and patient at times. I have learnt the hard way that exhibiting my own layout is best suited to smaller, one day shows simply because of these logistics.

Just in case anyone has the wrong idea. The reference to a visitor in Truro was completely tongue in cheek. Stubby is a great chap and has not only helped out on many occasions operate one of our layouts but has also regularly fed us.

[Stubby47]

Just in case anyone has the wrong idea. The reference to a visitor in Truro was completely tongue in cheek. Stubby is a great chap and has not only helped out on many occasions operate one of our layouts but has also regularly fed us.

Yeah, as if anyone is going to believe you.

[Corbs]

An interesting discussion. I have a slightly different problem but often find myself wondering if it's just me.

 

First I'll name and fame a few people. Ullypug and Captan Kernow of this parish, Rod Allcock, Robin who owns the K&ESR layout and is now building a model of Wantage, John who built the EM model of M shed, the Baron and Re6/6, Simon of Hobbiton End are all really nice people and were more than willing to chat to me when they were operating. I was particularly impressed by Robin's ability to carry on operating whilst holding a conversation - something I find more than a little bit difficult!

I've not attended hundreds of exhibitions but I have never had a bad experience talking to an operator or exhibitor, everyone has been very nice.

My problem is actually the opposite. Sometimes, I just want to walk up to a model or demonstration, just watch the trains go by and let the operators do their thing for a while. The problem is I have this feeling of awkwardness build up (like bringing a pan of water to boil) the longer I stand there, and that I MUST INTERACT, I MUST SAY SOMETHING. When sometimes it's just nice to watch people play trains, and I'd be quite happy to do that. I just feel like I'm being rude by not saying anything or commenting. This is true of layouts but also of demonstrations, sometimes I just want to watch someone at work.

The upshot is that I sometimes don't spend enough time looking at stuff as I'd like to.

 

As layout operators, do you find it rude that a member of the public would be quite happy not to interact but to watch trains for a long period of time? Or is it all in my head?

[2ManySpams]

An interesting discussion. I have a slightly different problem but often find myself wondering if it's just me.

 

First I'll name and fame a few people. Ullypug and Captan Kernow of this parish, Rod Allcock, Robin who owns the K&ESR layout and is now building a model of Wantage, John who built the EM model of M shed, the Baron and Re6/6, Simon of Hobbiton End are all really nice people and were more than willing to chat to me when they were operating. I was particularly impressed by Robin's ability to carry on operating whilst holding a conversation - something I find more than a little bit difficult!

I've not attended hundreds of exhibitions but I have never had a bad experience talking to an operator or exhibitor, everyone has been very nice.

 

My problem is actually the opposite. Sometimes, I just want to walk up to a model or demonstration, just watch the trains go by and let the operators do their thing for a while. The problem is I have this feeling of awkwardness build up (like bringing a pan of water to boil) the longer I stand there, and that I MUST INTERACT, I MUST SAY SOMETHING. When sometimes it's just nice to watch people play trains, and I'd be quite happy to do that. I just feel like I'm being rude by not saying anything or commenting. This is true of layouts but also of demonstrations, sometimes I just want to watch someone at work.

The upshot is that I sometimes don't spend enough time looking at stuff as I'd like to.

 

As layout operators, do you find it rude that a member of the public would be quite happy not to interact but to watch trains for a long period of time? Or is it all in my head?

IMO it's all in your head. You may watch the layout for 5 or 10mins. We operate for about 15 hours over the weekend. So unless you're so interested that you spend hours in front of the layout, it's unlikely I'll notice. As an operator you don't really mind folk not talking, I certainly don't mind folk quietly watching. As long as you get enjoyment from watching, chatting or both that's our job done.

[newbryford]

 

 

As layout operators, do you find it rude that a member of the public would be quite happy not to interact but to watch trains for a long period of time? Or is it all in my head?

 

Not at all.

 

It can make it quite worthwhile when a visitor watches the layout for some time, comes back again later to watch some more and then finally departs with a little "thank you" nod of the head and appreciative look.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Dagworth]

Don't forget that railway modelling is the safe space for a lot of people who sit within the autistic spectrum, don't force people to talk if they are uncomfortable doing so. Sometimes when I'm out with a layout I want to talk to people, other times I want to play trains in my own little world in my head.

 

Andi

[The White Rabbit]

 

As layout operators, do you find it rude that a member of the public would be quite happy not to interact but to watch trains for a long period of time? 

 

No. Been there, done that... As a visitor, I'd try and acknowledge the operator, if only a nod and/or saying 'good morning', so they knew I'm not ignoring them/sulking. But often I have no questions, just like to take in the atmosphere of a layout. And on the other side of a layout, you know some people just like to do that. If you're too eager to 'engage' them, you can actually put them off. Be available but not 'pushy'.