Bachmann announce RTR 009 Quarry Hunslets, Slate wagons and Ashover Light Railway coaches

[HonestTom]

Re the slate wagons, perhaps the loophole is that the Thomas wagons don't actually look like the ones in the TV series. I don't know my slate wagons well enough to say what the TV ones were based on, but they certainly weren't Talyllyn.

 

The Quarry Hunslet is just perfect for me, not so much for my bank account. I have two narrow gauge projects on the go at the moment, and up until now none of the RTR offerings have quite fitted. The Hunslet is ideal for my Victorian mineral railway - plus it's an engine I'm very fond of, having ridden behind Cloister at Kew Bridge Steam Museum many times. I didn't much fancy the idea of tackling a kit with those fiddly-looking outside frames.

[Quarryscapes]

I'm not sure whether a 2'3" gauge locomotive would have been inside framed or not, The 3' gauge Penmaenmawr locos were inside framed and there were some inside framed locos in Man Abell Quarry where the frames were so close together the smokeboxes were heavily waisted to fit between the. I'm not sure of the gauge, I think 2'6" 

[eastglosmog]

Just been looking at "Hunslet Narrow Gauge Locomotives" Andrew Neale, Plateway Press) and of the 3 "Quarry type" locos illustrated, the 3ft 0in gauge one is inside framed, the 2ft 1.19in one outside framed and the 1ft 10.75in one outside framed.  I would suspect that a 2ft 3in one would have been built outside framed as the firebox probably would not fit between inside frames.

I believe widening the gauge of an outside framed loco was no more difficult than an inside framed one - the frames and cylinders of both were moved out with packing pieces or new frame spacers.  Narrowing the gauge of either could be a lot more difficult if the firebox was a close fit between the frames.

Edited January 11, 2018 by eastglosmog

[Corbs]

Just been looking at "Hunslet Narrow Gauge Locomotives" Andrew Neale, Plateway Press) and of the 3 "Quarry type" locos illustrated, the 3ft 0in gauge one is inside framed, the 2ft 1.19in one outside framed and the 1ft 10.75in one outside framed.  I would suspect that a 2ft 3in one would have been built outside framed as the firebox probably would not fit between inside frames.

I believe widening the gauge of an outside framed loco was no more difficult than an inside framed one - the frames and cylinders of both were moved out with packing pieces or new frame spacers.  Narrowing the gauge of either could be a lot more difficult if the firebox was a close fit between the frames.

 

If you have read the excellent 'The Chronicles of Pendre Sidings', the TR went through a phase of looking for second hand locos to adapt and ran into this problem. It's a lot more work. They looked at adapting Linda and Blanche and it would have involved a lot of surgery.

If you have it, take a look at the widening of 'Douglas' in 'Locomotives of the Talyllyn and Corris' - it's a much easier job. You don't need to move the frames out at all.

I believe it involved new axles, spacing the motion out, and adding spacers to the cylinders to move them outboard. This was a big factor in using an inside framed loco.

[Titan]

Narrowing the gauge of either could be a lot more difficult if the firebox was a close fit between the frames.

Surely the frames stay where they are and you just push the wheels in on the axles?

[AMJ]

I suspect that there will be no space for sound chip and speaker.

 

Recommended reading Quarry Hunslet or north Wales by Cliff Thomas. My copy is signed by the author.

[Quarryscapes]

I suspect that there will be no space for sound chip and speaker.

 

Recommended reading Quarry Hunslet or north Wales by Cliff Thomas. My copy is signed by the author.

 

There won't be space for DCC never mind anything else. 

 

Surely the frames stay where they are and you just push the wheels in on the axles?

 

Nope, you move the frame, wheels, valve gear and cylinders together so that you can use the same cylinder castings. 

[Titan]

Nope, you move the frame, wheels, valve gear and cylinders together so that you can use the same cylinder castings. 

 

You would still use the same cylinder castings if you only pushed the wheels in. Running with additional clearance between the frames when the gauge is narrowed is not a problem. No need to narrow or move the frames in any way. Indeed, since the wheels are the only thing that changes position, as frames, crankpins, connecting rods, valve gear, axleboxes, axles, etc. all remaining the same size and exactly where they are, different cylinder castings would not fit...

 

A photograph explains:

 

Before:

 

 

After:

 

 

No moving of frames, changing of cylinders etc. Just moving the wheels on the axle and nothing else. In the case of this model an allen key is all that is required rather than a hydraulic press for full size.

Edited January 11, 2018 by Titan

[Quarryscapes]

You would still use the same cylinder castings if you only pushed the wheels in. Running with additional clearance between the frames when the gauge is narrowed is not a problem. No need to narrow or move the frames in any way. Indeed, since the wheels are the only thing that changes position, as frames, crankpins, connecting rods, valve gear, axleboxes, axles, etc. all remaining the same size and exactly where they are, different cylinder castings would not fit...

 

A photograph explains:

 

Before:

 

 

After:

 

 

No moving of frames, changing of cylinders etc. Just moving the wheels on the axle and nothing else. In the case of this model an allen key is all that is required rather than a hydraulic press for full size.

 

Not on a full size quarry Hunslet, no. There is very little leeway to move the wheel between the inside motion and the frames. Not that it matters, Hunslet didn't design a style of locomotive for variable gauges as did Bagnall and Kerr Stuart, Hunslet would take a design and alter it as necessary and use as much 'existing tooling' if you like to create the new design. That's how we've ended up with so many similar locomotives with lots of variations. For example if you were to dismantle Velinheli, you could fit 4 other shapes of frame and still put it together with the rest of the original loco. 

 

This is something I can't wait to see tackled by Bachmann since there are in the same basic family of locomotives the following non exhaustive list of possible options:

 

Frames: 5 variants

Buffer Beams: 5 variants

Injector Position: 2 main variants

Safety Valves: 3 Types

Domes: 3 Variants

Boiler Height: 2 variants

Buffers & Couplers: Several variants

Cab/Side Sheets: At least 5 variants

Handbrake Columns: 2 variants

 

Chimneys, Smokebox Doors, Tanks and associated fittings, lubricators and other sundry details all varied. Very much a case of no two locos being exactly alike. 

[9402 Fredrick]

I am actually very excited about these annoucements as I've been wanting to do a narrow gauge layout for quite some time, it was actually what I wanted to model before 00, so I now I can model a narrow gauge 009 slate quarry/passenger layout like I did when I was a teenager.

[rockershovel]

Oh, I need to see photos of these..

[9402 Fredrick]

Apparently Hattons project updates says the Quarry Hunslets are at the decorated sample stage.

[Pre Grouping fan]

Makes you wonder how accurate that is seeing as the baldwin hasnt moved even though its in production.

[Ryde-on-time]

Apparently Hattons project updates says the Quarry Hunslets are at the decorated sample stage.

The thread showing the 2018 Bachmann announcements included details at the bottom of the first post showing the position of each of the locos, the Hunslets show as in the Drawing Office. As this is direct from Bachmann I would take the info to be more accurate?

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/129822-Bachmann-announcements-2018-full-list/

[9402 Fredrick]

Yeah, that makes sense, honestly, that's the one thing with Hattons, their project updates oage isn't 100% accurate sometimes.

[rockershovel]

If you have read the excellent 'The Chronicles of Pendre Sidings', the TR went through a phase of looking for second hand locos to adapt and ran into this problem. It's a lot more work. They looked at adapting Linda and Blanche and it would have involved a lot of surgery.

If you have it, take a look at the widening of 'Douglas' in 'Locomotives of the Talyllyn and Corris' - it's a much easier job. You don't need to move the frames out at all.

I believe it involved new axles, spacing the motion out, and adding spacers to the cylinders to move them outboard. This was a big factor in using an inside framed loco.

There’s a description somewhere around, of the conversions Beyer Peacock (?) carried out on ex-WD Baldwin 4-6-0 for the Snailbeach and GVT lines. AFAIK, this apparently involved fitting new axles and fitting spacer blocks between the two halves of the cylinder/valve chest castings.

[rockershovel]

Not on a full size quarry Hunslet, no. There is very little leeway to move the wheel between the inside motion and the frames. Not that it matters, Hunslet didn't design a style of locomotive for variable gauges as did Bagnall and Kerr Stuart, Hunslet would take a design and alter it as necessary and use as much 'existing tooling' if you like to create the new design. That's how we've ended up with so many similar locomotives with lots of variations. For example if you were to dismantle Velinheli, you could fit 4 other shapes of frame and still put it together with the rest of the original loco. 

 

This is something I can't wait to see tackled by Bachmann since there are in the same basic family of locomotives the following non exhaustive list of possible options:

 

Frames: 5 variants

Buffer Beams: 5 variants

Injector Position: 2 main variants

Safety Valves: 3 Types

Domes: 3 Variants

Boiler Height: 2 variants

Buffers & Couplers: Several variants

Cab/Side Sheets: At least 5 variants

Handbrake Columns: 2 variants

 

Chimneys, Smokebox Doors, Tanks and associated fittings, lubricators and other sundry details all varied. Very much a case of no two locos being exactly alike.

 

It’s remarkable that such a small class (21 examples?) should have survived in such large numbers

[Chameleon]

I think 20 1/2 of them survive?

[HonestTom]

It’s remarkable that such a small class (21 examples?) should have survived in such large numbers

I guess such a small loco is quite an attractive proposition as a private preservation project - it needs considerably less space than a standard gauge loco (nearly said "full size," that's a great way to get kicked out of the 009 Society) both to store and run, and I would imagine they were designed to be fairly low-maintenance. I think the fact that they were still working when the preservation movement was taking off also helps.

[AMJ]

There are various other detail differences such as the stepped running plate for the lower cab on a few of them. Domed and domeless boilers.

 

Many of the survivors have new boilers.

 

According to the catalogue it's supposed to be DCC ready 6 pin!

 

For pictures of the prototypes see my Leeds Engine site, link below.

[Quarryscapes]

There are various other detail differences such as the stepped running plate for the lower cab on a few of them. Domed and domeless boilers.

 

Many of the survivors have new boilers.

 

According to the catalogue it's supposed to be DCC ready 6 pin!

 

For pictures of the prototypes see my Leeds Engine site, link below.

 

None of the basic types covered loosely by the Bachmann model have stepped cabs, one has a dome. If you extend the 'class' to cover the 20s built locos which are a modernised version of the basic design then you get 4 with domes and a new style of cab, frame and boiler but which is interchangeable with the others. 

[Pre Grouping fan]

These Cad images have appeared in the latest Bachmann collectors club magazine. Looking great I think. Although I imagine some comprimises have been made because of the large number of variations these locos had in their lives.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Andy Y
Image removed - copyright issue.

[happyChappy]

These Cad images have appeared in the latest Bachmann collectors club magazine. Looking great I think. Although I imagine some comprimises have been made because of the large number of variations these locos had in their lives.

Thanks for the images which, I agree,  look great. Although I'm really a diesel man I'm sure I'll be able to squeeze in a 'heritage day operation' as an excuse for one of these. I'm hoping the chassis, (minus connecting rods etc.), will also provide great scope as a diesel chassis - if I can bring myself to sacrifice such a good looking loco. Lets hope it runs as good as it looks. HC

[Quarryscapes]

They are both shown without the brake rod crank, presumably because the frames have been mirrored in CAD. They are clearly as preserved locos - Alice has a strange looking injector on her tank and Britomart has vac pipes and a lamp iron. Not too bad for 4mm given their size I guess. I don't much like the look of the Motion, the bracket is far too weedy and the crosshead and gap between slidebars far too large. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Quarryscapes

[PaulRhB]

They are both shown without the brake rod crank, presumably because the frames have been mirrored in CAD. They are clearly as preserved locos - Alice has a strange looking injector on her tank and Britomart has vac pipes and a lamp iron. Not too bad for 4mm given their size I guess. I don't much like the look of the Motion, the bracket is far too weedy and the crosshead and gap between slidebars far too large. 

Remember this is just initial CAD The 'weedy' bracket is probably a consequence of 2ft 3in gauge and the thickness of the frames reducing the clearance and pushing the cylinders out a bit. I'd also guess the bigger crosshead is a consequence of robustness. What's really remarkable is that they've been able to squeeze in a dcc socket although not the inbuilt speaker of the Baldwin