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Bachmann announce RTR 009 Quarry Hunslets, Slate wagons and Ashover Light Railway coaches





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#26 HonestTom

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 13:32

Re the slate wagons, perhaps the loophole is that the Thomas wagons don't actually look like the ones in the TV series. I don't know my slate wagons well enough to say what the TV ones were based on, but they certainly weren't Talyllyn.

 

The Quarry Hunslet is just perfect for me, not so much for my bank account. I have two narrow gauge projects on the go at the moment, and up until now none of the RTR offerings have quite fitted. The Hunslet is ideal for my Victorian mineral railway - plus it's an engine I'm very fond of, having ridden behind Cloister at Kew Bridge Steam Museum many times. I didn't much fancy the idea of tackling a kit with those fiddly-looking outside frames.





#27 Quarryscapes

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 18:30

I'm not sure whether a 2'3" gauge locomotive would have been inside framed or not, The 3' gauge Penmaenmawr locos were inside framed and there were some inside framed locos in Man Abell Quarry where the frames were so close together the smokeboxes were heavily waisted to fit between the. I'm not sure of the gauge, I think 2'6" 



#28 eastglosmog

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 07:40

Just been looking at "Hunslet Narrow Gauge Locomotives" Andrew Neale, Plateway Press) and of the 3 "Quarry type" locos illustrated, the 3ft 0in gauge one is inside framed, the 2ft 1.19in one outside framed and the 1ft 10.75in one outside framed.  I would suspect that a 2ft 3in one would have been built outside framed as the firebox probably would not fit between inside frames.

I believe widening the gauge of an outside framed loco was no more difficult than an inside framed one - the frames and cylinders of both were moved out with packing pieces or new frame spacers.  Narrowing the gauge of either could be a lot more difficult if the firebox was a close fit between the frames.


Edited by eastglosmog, 11 January 2018 - 09:55 .


#29 Corbs

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 13:47

Just been looking at "Hunslet Narrow Gauge Locomotives" Andrew Neale, Plateway Press) and of the 3 "Quarry type" locos illustrated, the 3ft 0in gauge one is inside framed, the 2ft 1.19in one outside framed and the 1ft 10.75in one outside framed.  I would suspect that a 2ft 3in one would have been built outside framed as the firebox probably would not fit between inside frames.

I believe widening the gauge of an outside framed loco was no more difficult than an inside framed one - the frames and cylinders of both were moved out with packing pieces or new frame spacers.  Narrowing the gauge of either could be a lot more difficult if the firebox was a close fit between the frames.

 

If you have read the excellent 'The Chronicles of Pendre Sidings', the TR went through a phase of looking for second hand locos to adapt and ran into this problem. It's a lot more work. They looked at adapting Linda and Blanche and it would have involved a lot of surgery.

If you have it, take a look at the widening of 'Douglas' in 'Locomotives of the Talyllyn and Corris' - it's a much easier job. You don't need to move the frames out at all.

I believe it involved new axles, spacing the motion out, and adding spacers to the cylinders to move them outboard. This was a big factor in using an inside framed loco.



#30 Titan

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 18:26

Narrowing the gauge of either could be a lot more difficult if the firebox was a close fit between the frames.


Surely the frames stay where they are and you just push the wheels in on the axles?

#31 AMJ

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 18:28

I suspect that there will be no space for sound chip and speaker.

Recommended reading Quarry Hunslet or north Wales by Cliff Thomas. My copy is signed by the author.
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#32 Quarryscapes

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 19:41

I suspect that there will be no space for sound chip and speaker.

Recommended reading Quarry Hunslet or north Wales by Cliff Thomas. My copy is signed by the author.

 

There won't be space for DCC never mind anything else. 

 

Surely the frames stay where they are and you just push the wheels in on the axles?

 

Nope, you move the frame, wheels, valve gear and cylinders together so that you can use the same cylinder castings. 



#33 Titan

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 21:03

Nope, you move the frame, wheels, valve gear and cylinders together so that you can use the same cylinder castings. 

 

You would still use the same cylinder castings if you only pushed the wheels in. Running with additional clearance between the frames when the gauge is narrowed is not a problem. No need to narrow or move the frames in any way. Indeed, since the wheels are the only thing that changes position, as frames, crankpins, connecting rods, valve gear, axleboxes, axles, etc. all remaining the same size and exactly where they are, different cylinder castings would not fit...

 

A photograph explains:

 

Before:

 

Accucraft+Gauge+Change+04.jpg

 

After:

 

Accucraft+Gauge+Change+01.jpg

 

No moving of frames, changing of cylinders etc. Just moving the wheels on the axle and nothing else. In the case of this model an allen key is all that is required rather than a hydraulic press for full size.


Edited by Titan, 11 January 2018 - 21:24 .

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#34 Quarryscapes

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 19:05

You would still use the same cylinder castings if you only pushed the wheels in. Running with additional clearance between the frames when the gauge is narrowed is not a problem. No need to narrow or move the frames in any way. Indeed, since the wheels are the only thing that changes position, as frames, crankpins, connecting rods, valve gear, axleboxes, axles, etc. all remaining the same size and exactly where they are, different cylinder castings would not fit...

 

A photograph explains:

 

Before:

 

Accucraft+Gauge+Change+04.jpg

 

After:

 

Accucraft+Gauge+Change+01.jpg

 

No moving of frames, changing of cylinders etc. Just moving the wheels on the axle and nothing else. In the case of this model an allen key is all that is required rather than a hydraulic press for full size.

 

Not on a full size quarry Hunslet, no. There is very little leeway to move the wheel between the inside motion and the frames. Not that it matters, Hunslet didn't design a style of locomotive for variable gauges as did Bagnall and Kerr Stuart, Hunslet would take a design and alter it as necessary and use as much 'existing tooling' if you like to create the new design. That's how we've ended up with so many similar locomotives with lots of variations. For example if you were to dismantle Velinheli, you could fit 4 other shapes of frame and still put it together with the rest of the original loco. 

 

This is something I can't wait to see tackled by Bachmann since there are in the same basic family of locomotives the following non exhaustive list of possible options:

 

Frames: 5 variants

Buffer Beams: 5 variants

Injector Position: 2 main variants

Safety Valves: 3 Types

Domes: 3 Variants

Boiler Height: 2 variants

Buffers & Couplers: Several variants

Cab/Side Sheets: At least 5 variants

Handbrake Columns: 2 variants

 

Chimneys, Smokebox Doors, Tanks and associated fittings, lubricators and other sundry details all varied. Very much a case of no two locos being exactly alike. 


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#35 9402 Fredrick

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 23:23

I am actually very excited about these annoucements as I've been wanting to do a narrow gauge layout for quite some time, it was actually what I wanted to model before 00, so I now I can model a narrow gauge 009 slate quarry/passenger layout like I did when I was a teenager.
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#36 rockershovel

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 11:29

Oh, I need to see photos of these..

#37 9402 Fredrick

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 12:10

Apparently Hattons project updates says the Quarry Hunslets are at the decorated sample stage.

#38 Pre Grouping fan

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 12:56

Makes you wonder how accurate that is seeing as the baldwin hasnt moved even though its in production.

#39 Ryde-on-time

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 14:15

Apparently Hattons project updates says the Quarry Hunslets are at the decorated sample stage.

The thread showing the 2018 Bachmann announcements included details at the bottom of the first post showing the position of each of the locos, the Hunslets show as in the Drawing Office. As this is direct from Bachmann I would take the info to be more accurate?

 

http://www.rmweb.co....2018-full-list/



#40 9402 Fredrick

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 14:35

Yeah, that makes sense, honestly, that's the one thing with Hattons, their project updates oage isn't 100% accurate sometimes.

#41 rockershovel

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 05:19

If you have read the excellent 'The Chronicles of Pendre Sidings', the TR went through a phase of looking for second hand locos to adapt and ran into this problem. It's a lot more work. They looked at adapting Linda and Blanche and it would have involved a lot of surgery.
If you have it, take a look at the widening of 'Douglas' in 'Locomotives of the Talyllyn and Corris' - it's a much easier job. You don't need to move the frames out at all.
I believe it involved new axles, spacing the motion out, and adding spacers to the cylinders to move them outboard. This was a big factor in using an inside framed loco.


There’s a description somewhere around, of the conversions Beyer Peacock (?) carried out on ex-WD Baldwin 4-6-0 for the Snailbeach and GVT lines. AFAIK, this apparently involved fitting new axles and fitting spacer blocks between the two halves of the cylinder/valve chest castings.

#42 rockershovel

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 05:20

Not on a full size quarry Hunslet, no. There is very little leeway to move the wheel between the inside motion and the frames. Not that it matters, Hunslet didn't design a style of locomotive for variable gauges as did Bagnall and Kerr Stuart, Hunslet would take a design and alter it as necessary and use as much 'existing tooling' if you like to create the new design. That's how we've ended up with so many similar locomotives with lots of variations. For example if you were to dismantle Velinheli, you could fit 4 other shapes of frame and still put it together with the rest of the original loco. 
 
This is something I can't wait to see tackled by Bachmann since there are in the same basic family of locomotives the following non exhaustive list of possible options:
 
Frames: 5 variants
Buffer Beams: 5 variants
Injector Position: 2 main variants
Safety Valves: 3 Types
Domes: 3 Variants
Boiler Height: 2 variants
Buffers & Couplers: Several variants
Cab/Side Sheets: At least 5 variants
Handbrake Columns: 2 variants
 
Chimneys, Smokebox Doors, Tanks and associated fittings, lubricators and other sundry details all varied. Very much a case of no two locos being exactly alike.


It’s remarkable that such a small class (21 examples?) should have survived in such large numbers

#43 Chameleon

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 21:00

I think 20 1/2 of them survive?

#44 HonestTom

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 15:44

It’s remarkable that such a small class (21 examples?) should have survived in such large numbers

I guess such a small loco is quite an attractive proposition as a private preservation project - it needs considerably less space than a standard gauge loco (nearly said "full size," that's a great way to get kicked out of the 009 Society) both to store and run, and I would imagine they were designed to be fairly low-maintenance. I think the fact that they were still working when the preservation movement was taking off also helps.



#45 AMJ

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 17:29

There are various other detail differences such as the stepped running plate for the lower cab on a few of them. Domed and domeless boilers.

Many of the survivors have new boilers.

According to the catalogue it's supposed to be DCC ready 6 pin!

For pictures of the prototypes see my Leeds Engine site, link below.

#46 Quarryscapes

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 07:56

There are various other detail differences such as the stepped running plate for the lower cab on a few of them. Domed and domeless boilers.

Many of the survivors have new boilers.

According to the catalogue it's supposed to be DCC ready 6 pin!

For pictures of the prototypes see my Leeds Engine site, link below.

 

None of the basic types covered loosely by the Bachmann model have stepped cabs, one has a dome. If you extend the 'class' to cover the 20s built locos which are a modernised version of the basic design then you get 4 with domes and a new style of cab, frame and boiler but which is interchangeable with the others.