Bulleid Coaches

[Robin Brasher]

My interest in Bulleid coaches began when a series of drawings appeared in the 1967 Model Railway Constructor. Swiftly following were BSL's 00 gauge kits with aluminium sides and LAM's plastic sides to convert Hornby Mk1 coaches. Eventually Bachmann and Graham Farish produced some ready to run models.

 

I bought a share in one of the Swanage Railway's Bulleid coaches and have watched the restoration of two of the Railway's Bulleid coaches with interest.

 

The Bachmann coaches have become dated and with their 15" ventilators were almost limited to post nationalisation trains.

 

I am pleased to see that Bachmann are going to update their range and to include some Southern coaches.

 

I look forward to seeing members' comments and pictures of models and prototype Bulleid coaches.

[SRman]

I like that they are also doing a BCK as part of a 2-set, and also that they are using some 'joined-up' thinking and providing the coaches to make up sets (the other releases are mostly for 3-sets, with a couple of 'loose' SKs thrown in to the mix too).

Like you, I welcome the somewhat overdue improvements and provision of pre-nationalisation types. 

Now, I must put some of my older Bulleids on eBay before the new ones come - any funds I can raise from those will go towards the new, better models. Ironically, I haven't run any of my old Bachmann Bulleids for ages, but have just put a crimson and cream 3-set on behind 10201 yesterday.

Edited January 8, 2018 by SRman

[Graham_Muz]

Full details of the Initial proposed releases of newly tooled Bulleid coaches including Diagram, Set and Coach numbers (where known) can be found here https://grahammuz.com/2018/01/07/Bachmann-2018-19-range-announcements-includes-new-tooled-lbsc-h1-and-bulleid-63ft-coaching-stock-in-00/

[RFS]

I have the book "Bulleid Coaches in 4mm Scale" by S W Stevens-Stratton.  According to this, the diagram 2019 corridor thirds (coach numbers 12-130), which Bachmann are to produce in SR livery as 34-775 loose vehicle, were delivered between December 1948 and November 1950, ie well into British Railways time. Although the coach may have been in Malachite, it would not, I believe, have carried Southern markings. Even set 790 itself did not enter traffic until October 1947, so less than 3 months before the demise of the Southern Railway. 

 

Are Bachmann aware of this?

Edited January 8, 2018 by RFS

[brushman47544]

Great to see new Bulleid coaches, but it seems that once again (and its not just Bachmann doing this) the potentially most popular livery BR(S) Green is in most cases being kept back for later releases (the exception being the 2-set). At least I have some current Bulleids to keep me going in the meantime. And as I've said elsewhere, please Bachmann can you add a Diagram 2406 loose BCK to the range asap.

[Wickham Green]

I have the book "Bulleid Coaches in 4mm Scale" by S W Stevens-Stratton.  According to this, the diagram 2019 corridor thirds (coach numbers 12-130), which Bachmann are to produce in SR livery as 34-775 loose vehicle, were delivered between December 1948 and November 1950, ie well into British Railways time. Although the coach may have been in Malachite, it would not, I believe, have carried Southern markings. Even set 790 itself did not enter traffic until October 1947, so less than 3 months before the demise of the Southern Railway. 

 

Are Bachmann aware of this?

They're probably aware of all that - and probably aware that there are people out here who like malachite green - so their only OTHER options for that colour would be a full six-coach ( skirted ) Bournemouth set, an all-door set ( 59' or 63' ) or a 'Birmingham' set : the latter would be my personal preference* but all these options would have far less opportunity for producing other variants without major tooling mods.

 

* I have enough old-style Bachmann donors, Comet sides and 'Phoenix' ends in stock - so I'm not too worried !

[chris45lsw]

I have the book "Bulleid Coaches in 4mm Scale" by S W Stevens-Stratton.  According to this, the diagram 2019 corridor thirds (coach numbers 12-130), which Bachmann are to produce in SR livery as 34-775 loose vehicle, were delivered between December 1948 and November 1950, ie well into British Railways time. Although the coach may have been in Malachite, it would not, I believe, have carried Southern markings. Even set 790 itself did not enter traffic until October 1947, so less than 3 months before the demise of the Southern Railway. 

 

Are Bachmann aware of this?

Yes but Bachmann are doing one of only five D.2019 TKs, numbers 1932-1936 which had 10" window vents (26-130, of course, had 15" vents).  It will be liveried in SR style but will have "S" prefixes to the number.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

[RFS]

Yes but Bachmann are doing one of only five D.2019 TKs, numbers 1932-1936 which had 10" window vents (26-130, of course, had 15" vents).  It will be liveried in SR style but will have "S" prefixes to the number.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

 

These coaches were also built in late 1948. I was assuming they could be used to increase the 3-set 790 to 5 coaches (as was often done during the summer timetable) but if the coaches for set 790 are modelled in full Southern livery then they won't match, as the D.2019 coaches will essentially be in BR livery. 

[Wickham Green]

These coaches were also built in late 1948. I was assuming they could be used to increase the 3-set 790 to 5 coaches (as was often done during the summer timetable) but if the coaches for set 790 are modelled in full Southern livery then they won't match, as the D.2019 coaches will essentially be in BR livery. 

Believe it or not coaches DIDN'T always match ! ........... any vehicles that carried malachite green FROM NEW - including D2019 - would have been essentially in SOUTHERN livery even if that word was omitted : the numbers ( with or without 'S' prefix ) would have been carried below the cantrail rather than at the waist.  

[JSpencer]

I like that they are also doing a BCK as part of a 2-set, and also that they are using some 'joined-up' thinking and providing the coaches to make up sets (the other releases are mostly for 3-sets, with a couple of 'loose' SKs thrown in to the mix too).

 

Like you, I welcome the somewhat overdue improvements and provision of pre-nationalisation types.

 

Now, I must put some of my older Bulleids on eBay before the new ones come - any funds I can raise from those will go towards the new, better models. Ironically, I haven't run any of my old Bachmann Bulleids for ages, but have just put a crimson and cream 3-set on behind 10201 yesterday.

We don't know how much these will cost yet. £40 each, I'll replace the order ones 1 for 1 buying both BR sets. £60 each, I'll probably just get set 69 (2 coaches) to supplement what I have.

 

Now £40 * 7 = £280 vs £60 * 2 = £120, so you could argue I have £160 to buy another 2 or 3 on top, but it would be odd having just a part set of the crimson/cream! Unless breaking them up to run with other sets was a common practice (which I doubt in early BR days).

Edit : just saw Graham"s blog which said the larger sets of 5 could be cut down to 3 for winter by removing the TKs, did they always need to have 2 brakes?

Edited January 8, 2018 by JSpencer

[Steamport Southport]

I've already worked out that it's going to be expensive over the next year or two.

 

 

I think these were the highlight of the Bachmann announcement. Apart from the little Hunslet which will probably win the cuteness award.

 

 

 

Jason

[acourtrail]

I had no idea that a shallow windowed TK had existed until seeing the Bachmann announcements (including a picture of the real thing).

[chris45lsw]

Great to see new Bulleid coaches, but it seems that once again (and its not just Bachmann doing this) the potentially most popular livery BR(S) Green is in most cases being kept back for later releases (the exception being the 2-set). At least I have some current Bulleids to keep me going in the meantime. And as I've said elsewhere, please Bachmann can you add a Diagram 2406 loose BCK to the range asap.

Yes the d.2406 BCK would be an obvious addition to make to the range - after all there were 40 of them (and only 13 d.2405s in the 2-sets 63-75).

 

And Bachmann have also omitted the d.2017 TO (45 built) even though it featured in their old range.  Several went to the ER and ScR in 1965/66 and were painted maroon accordingly.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

[Butler Henderson]

Possibly worth noting the coaches Bachmann are releasing make up into sets used on Waterloo-West of England services and in the case of SR and CreamCrimson ones Waterloo-Weymouth services.

[Steamport Southport]

As long as they make up coherent sets. That's where Hornby Maunsells sometimes fall down.

 

 

 

Jason

[RFS]

Possibly worth noting the coaches Bachmann are releasing make up into sets used on Waterloo-West of England services and in the case of SR and CreamCrimson ones Waterloo-Weymouth services.

 

Very thoughtful of Bachmann, though, to provide some excellent new rolling stock to run with Hornby's Bulleid Pacifics, new Lord Nelson, Schools, N15, S15 etc etc. 

 

The 2-set 69 was exclusively used for the West Country services, being detached from expresses to be taken down branches by M7s etc. 

 

As ever, of course, rule 1 applies .....

[mattingleycustom]

Yes but Bachmann are doing one of only five D.2019 TKs, numbers 1932-1936 which had 10" window vents (26-130, of course, had 15" vents).  It will be liveried in SR style but will have "S" prefixes to the number.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

 

The D2019 TK seems an odd choice (but then anything with the 10" ventilators is welcome), until you consider it shares the same external layout as the D2017 TO used in the Bournemouth Sets. With the new Semi-Open Brake and Composite models, it wouldn't take too much effort to produce these fine looking 6-Sets at a later date.

 

Well done Bachmann.

 

Glenn

[Graham_Muz]

As long as they make up coherent sets. That's where Hornby Maunsells sometimes fall down.

 

Jason

Jason

 

As per the link to my blog in post #3 of this thread where I detail the coach diagrams, numbers and set numbers I confirm that the releases are so designed (as I have had involvement in these models for some time) will make up correct sets. (The latest and proposed Hornby Maunsell releases make up correct sets after discussing such with them)

[ed 66 plant]

Full details of the Initial proposed releases of newly tooled Bulleid coaches including Diagram, Set and Coach numbers (where known) can be found here https://grahammuz.com/2018/01/07/Bachmann-2018-19-range-announcements-includes-new-tooled-lbsc-h1-and-bulleid-63ft-coaching-stock-in-00/

Thank you for your very useful information Graham.

Question---will the open third follow in due course--it is mentioned but not defined.

Also is it realistic to add the forthcoming Hornby kitchen diner first to set 847 to make for a  Lon W. --Bournemouth rake?

(in the absence of a Bournemouth dining set)

best regards,

Ed

Edited January 9, 2018 by ed 66 plant

[Ceptic]

A reminder to everyone with an interest in Bulleid LHCS,

The Overall Body Length of the prototypes that Bachmann are intending to model are 64' - 6" over Body ends (67' - 1" with Buffers extended), with the Body width being 9' - 0" (9' - 3" over Handles) .....Exactly the same Dims. as BR's Mk.1 Main-line passenger stock.

 

Why is it, then, that BR Std. Mk.1s are described as 64' long coaches ?, and these Bulleids being 63' ??.

 

Maybe this misconception is what threw Bachmann off course and into their, initial, under-size efforts. 

[darren01]

I hope they do  them in the same S/BR Green as the last ones, the ones before them where a much lighter shade.

[Phatbob]

Incidentally, does anyone know why Bulleid designed two types of BCK?

Personally, having tried to model them, I think the real reason is that Oliver Bulleid hated railway modellers!

At first sight, a simple "cut and shut" should allow one to convert the semi-open brake third to a "loose BCK", but no, good old Oliver put the centre doors and toilet in the other way around!

Edited January 10, 2018 by Phatbob

[Dunsignalling]

I hope they do  them in the same S/BR Green as the last ones, the ones before them where a much lighter shade.

Personally, I'd like them to do something in between. The last lot were more-or-less spot on for prototype colour but it looked too dark on the models. I haven't yet decided if I'll get two pairs of these and renumber one or just one and wait for an "A" release.

 

Whatever happens, I have very little need for crimson/cream Bulleids (one SK will do me) and I'll be waiting for the coaches to make 3/5-sets to be released in green before I replace my old ones, several of which I only refurbished a few months ago. 

 

Probably just as well, if they were doing everything in BR green this year it would reduce the number of Hornby Maunsells I can afford.

 

John

[RCAR6015]

Personally, I'd like them to do something in between. The last lot were more-or-less spot on for prototype colour but it looked too dark on the models. I haven't yet decided if I'll get two pairs of these and renumber one or just one and wait for an "A" release.

 

Whatever happens, I have very little need for crimson/cream Bulleids (one SK will do me) and I'll be waiting for the coaches to make 3/5-sets to be released in green before I replace my old ones, several of which I only refurbished a few months ago. 

 

Probably just as well, if they were doing everything in BR green this year it would reduce the number of Hornby Maunsells I can afford.

 

John

I much prefer the Hornby shade of green that they use on their B.R. Southern Region stock ( Mk 1 and Maunsell coaches )

To my eyes the shades of green use by Bachmann have never been quite correct!

Perhaps they can take the time to review the colour specification on the new release of Bulleid coaches

[Rising Standards]

I'd certainly prefer a green closer to that found on Hornby's Maunsells to be used on BR green releases of these coaches rather than the odd very dark shade Bachmann adopted a few years ago for southern region mark 1 vehicles, particularly given that I assume sets of both would have regularly appeared with each other.