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WR Blue Pullman Paddington - Bristol routing





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#1 jools1959

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 20:31

I was wondering what the routing was for the Western Region Blue Pullmans on the Paddington - Bristol route.  Was it via Chippenham/Box Tunnel and Bath or the Badminton routes?  I was also wondering they were ever routed via the Berks & Hants from time to time?



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#2 ianwales

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 20:52

Hi

 

Strangely enough I've just been reading the chapter on the WR Blue Pullmans in C J Allen's Titled Trains of Great Britain,

 

About the introduction of the Bristol service it notes the following " The Up Bristol Pullman left Temple Meads at 7.45am and ran non stop to Paddington via Badminton, it then returned to Bristol at 10.05 am via Bath to reach Bristol at 12 noon, 30 minutes later it was starting back via Bath to Paddington before commencing the final run from Paddington at 4.55pm nonstop via Badminton. Bath, however, was too important to be missed out on the morning and evening trips so from October the train started 5 mins earlier and finished its day 5 mins later and travelled via Bath".

 

Hope this helps

 

Ian


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#3 Albie the plumber

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 21:48

Reading this article has just reminded me that Bachmann has just announced their intention to produce the WR version of the Blue Pullman with the reverse Grey/ Blue scheme included.

 

A twin chipped version is also planned .

 

Better start saving ! 

 


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#4 chrisf

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 07:13

Mention in the post above of the reverse grey/blue livery reminds me once again of the comment by the inimitable Ron White in the Colour-Rail catalogue: "What crass clown thought this an improvement?".

 

Chris 


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#5 Enterprisingwestern

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 09:07

Mention in the post above of the reverse grey/blue livery reminds me once again of the comment by the inimitable Ron White in the Colour-Rail catalogue: "What crass clown thought this an improvement?".

 

Chris 

 

IMHO it didn't look as bad on the Blue Pullmans as it did on the Southern Region hauled coaches.

 

Mike.


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#6 Metr0Land

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 10:01

IMHO it didn't look as bad on the Blue Pullmans as it did on the Southern Region hauled coaches.
 
Mike.


For younger viewers and listeners who've never seen this it's here (older viewers may want to look away now)

13252443825_ff41bf7e15_z.jpgGolden-Arrow_Pullmans_WandsworthRd_1-9-69 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr
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#7 ThePipersSon

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 10:21

Both the 6-car and 8-car units appeared on the Berks and Hants from time to time, due to diversions from the usual route due to problems.  Also, when the 6-car units were transferred to the Western region, driver training was carried out between Reading and Westbury.

 

Hope this helps.


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#8 Zomboid

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 10:34

IMHO it didn't look as bad on the Blue Pullmans as it did on the Southern Region hauled coaches.

Mike.

The mk2 aircons look pretty good in the reversed grey/ blue IMO. The mk1 pullmans don't look bad like that either, but the old flat sided ones... Oh dear...
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#9 Foulounoux

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 20:22

Mention in the post above of the reverse grey/blue livery reminds me once again of the comment by the inimitable Ron White in the Colour-Rail catalogue: "What crass clown thought this an improvement?".

Chris

Oh dear I must be a crass clown l prefer the grey blue livery and have been screaming why aren't they doing the blue Pullman in the proper colour scheme for months
I just can't afford it now

I think it's because I grew up only seeing the later livery ..... And loved both the ECML Pullmans and the WCML mk2 pullmans in that scheme

Edited by Foulounoux, 09 January 2018 - 20:23 .


#10 Peter Kazmierczak

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 20:29

Still recovering after looking at those SR Pullmans.........

 

Back to the Blue Pullmans; don't forget there was also, for a time, a midday fill-in turn out and back to Oxford


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#11 jools1959

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 21:32

What was the diagram for the 6 car Pullmans or did they use what was available on the day, either a 6 or 8 car set on the diagram?  Were they based at Old Oak or Bristol?



#12 Peter Kazmierczak

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 21:36

Off the top of my head, x2 6-car Bristol -Padd. Then split; one to Bristol and the other to Oxford. Then after arrival at Padd in late afternoon, join as x2 6-car to Bristol. The South Wales Pullman was 8-car


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#13 rodent279

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 23:49

Off the top of my head, x2 6-car Bristol -Padd. Then split; one to Bristol and the other to Oxford. Then after arrival at Padd in late afternoon, join as x2 6-car to Bristol. The South Wales Pullman was 8-car


What were the passenger loadings like on the 12-car sets, does anyone have any figures?

#14 Rugd1022

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 13:35

I haven't checked Kevin Robertson's BP books but I think the mid-day Oxford run only lasted a year at most from around January / February '67, at which time both six car sets were in Nanking Blue with full yellow ends (but with the multiple working gubbins fitted too of course).


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#15 robertcwp

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 21:33



What were the passenger loadings like on the 12-car sets, does anyone have any figures?

No figures but there were only 36 more first class seats and the same number of second class as a standard 8-car set.

 

The 12-car sets were split up around 1971 and mixed with the 8-car sets. One 8-car set with three trailer parlour firsts became the regular set on the Bristol Pullman towards the end.

 

8535404488_f173efded4_z.jpgBlue-Pull_upBristolPull_RoyalOak_30-4-73 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr


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#16 robertcwp

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 21:36



I haven't checked Kevin Robertson's BP books but I think the mid-day Oxford run only lasted a year at most from around January / February '67, at which time both six car sets were in Nanking Blue with full yellow ends (but with the multiple working gubbins fitted too of course).

The off-peak Pullmans had all ceased by the time the 6-car sets were repainted into grey/blue, early in 1970. They were the final ones to be done. Prior to that, a hybrid set had appeared formed of 4 out of 6 in nanking blue and 4 out of 8 in grey/blue.

 

Two from George Woods:

8440535529_ff5d0bcc03_z.jpgBlue Pullman Paddington 5.69 by George Woods, on Flickr

 

8440535081_37e3cd7b53_z.jpgBlue Pullman Paddington 5.69 by George Woods, on Flickr


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#17 The Johnster

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 02:21

The grey/blue Pullman livery looked good IMHO on the mk 2 aircon vehicles for the Liverpool/Manchester electric services, but pretty awful on anything else.  But I doubt the Nanking Blue/White would have suited any of the earlier vehicles, including the Metro Cammell mk1s, to my mind the best looking passenger vehicles ever produced for the UK in umber/cream livery.  Older Pullmans are too slab sided for my taste.

 

I didn't like grey/blue on the WR sets, which may have been down to the way it was applied as much as anything else; I didn't think the large yellow panels suited anything, which included the Blue Pullmans (it saved lives, though, which is more important), and the area of unbroken grey between the end of the blue window surround stripe and the warning panel looked awkward and odd.  Maybe it would have looked better had the blue continued as far as the warning panel.  The repeat of the livery on the prototype HST was no better and the production blue/grey was much better.

 

The above are my opinions, and anyone is perfectly justified in not agreeing with them for any reason whatever it is.  



#18 ianwales

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 08:09

No figures but there were only 36 more first class seats and the same number of second class as a standard 8-car set.

 

 

Hi Robert

 

I Thought the 12 car set was the 2 ex Midland Pullman sets coupled together, in which case they were first class only as the midland sets never had 2nd class provision?

 

Ian


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#19 Peter Kazmierczak

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 11:17

Hi Robert

 

I Thought the 12 car set was the 2 ex Midland Pullman sets coupled together, in which case they were first class only as the midland sets never had 2nd class provision?

 

Ian

 

Think some of the seating was reclassified as "second".



#20 robertcwp

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 12:46

Think some of the seating was reclassified as "second".

Yes, the driving motors and the kitchen cars were downgraded to second, giving 60 second class seats and 72 first class in each 6-car set. A standard 8-car set seated 108 first and 120 second.

 

I doubt that much changed on downgrading as the seats were the same in the proper second class cars apart from the pitch being different and not reclining. I suppose it's possible that the handles to make the seats recline were removed on the downgraded cars but that is pure speculation.


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#21 The Johnster

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 16:58

This was necessary as, while the original 'Midland Pullman' 6 car sets were all first class, the WR sets had always included second class accommodation and the ticketing arrangements demanded that it be provided, even as downgraded 1st class seating.



#22 jools1959

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 17:53

When both 6 and 8 car sets were on the Western Region, were the coaches and power cars mixed and matched?  There is a MU equipped power car on the end of a 8 car set posted on here but did the sets remain stable and swop power cars like present day HST's or could coaches from a 6 car set end up in a 8 car set and vice versa?



#23 robertcwp

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 18:27

When both 6 and 8 car sets were on the Western Region, were the coaches and power cars mixed and matched?  There is a MU equipped power car on the end of a 8 car set posted on here but did the sets remain stable and swop power cars like present day HST's or could coaches from a 6 car set end up in a 8 car set and vice versa?

Yes, from the Autumn of 1971 onwards it appears. By 1973, all three sets in regular service were a mix. Two were standard 8-car sets apart from having one power car from a 6-car set and the other one, used on the Bristol Pullman, was 4 cars from a 6-car set and 4 from an 8-car set, so it had three trailer parlour firsts.


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