WR Blue Pullman Paddington - Bristol routing

[TravisM]

I was wondering what the routing was for the Western Region Blue Pullmans on the Paddington - Bristol route.  Was it via Chippenham/Box Tunnel and Bath or the Badminton routes?  I was also wondering they were ever routed via the Berks & Hants from time to time?

[ianwales]

Hi

 

Strangely enough I've just been reading the chapter on the WR Blue Pullmans in C J Allen's Titled Trains of Great Britain,

 

About the introduction of the Bristol service it notes the following " The Up Bristol Pullman left Temple Meads at 7.45am and ran non stop to Paddington via Badminton, it then returned to Bristol at 10.05 am via Bath to reach Bristol at 12 noon, 30 minutes later it was starting back via Bath to Paddington before commencing the final run from Paddington at 4.55pm nonstop via Badminton. Bath, however, was too important to be missed out on the morning and evening trips so from October the train started 5 mins earlier and finished its day 5 mins later and travelled via Bath".

 

Hope this helps

 

Ian

[Albie the plumber]

Reading this article has just reminded me that Bachmann has just announced their intention to produce the WR version of the Blue Pullman with the reverse Grey/ Blue scheme included.

 

A twin chipped version is also planned .

 

Better start saving ! 

 

[chrisf]

Mention in the post above of the reverse grey/blue livery reminds me once again of the comment by the inimitable Ron White in the Colour-Rail catalogue: "What crass clown thought this an improvement?".

 

Chris 

[Enterprisingwestern]

Mention in the post above of the reverse grey/blue livery reminds me once again of the comment by the inimitable Ron White in the Colour-Rail catalogue: "What crass clown thought this an improvement?".

 

Chris 

 

IMHO it didn't look as bad on the Blue Pullmans as it did on the Southern Region hauled coaches.

 

Mike.

[Metr0Land]

IMHO it didn't look as bad on the Blue Pullmans as it did on the Southern Region hauled coaches.

 

Mike.

For younger viewers and listeners who've never seen this it's here (older viewers may want to look away now)

 

Golden-Arrow_Pullmans_WandsworthRd_1-9-69 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[ThePipersSon]

Both the 6-car and 8-car units appeared on the Berks and Hants from time to time, due to diversions from the usual route due to problems.  Also, when the 6-car units were transferred to the Western region, driver training was carried out between Reading and Westbury.

 

Hope this helps.

[Zomboid]

IMHO it didn't look as bad on the Blue Pullmans as it did on the Southern Region hauled coaches.

 

Mike.

The mk2 aircons look pretty good in the reversed grey/ blue IMO. The mk1 pullmans don't look bad like that either, but the old flat sided ones... Oh dear...

[Foulounoux]

Mention in the post above of the reverse grey/blue livery reminds me once again of the comment by the inimitable Ron White in the Colour-Rail catalogue: "What crass clown thought this an improvement?".

 

Chris

 

Oh dear I must be a crass clown l prefer the grey blue livery and have been screaming why aren't they doing the blue Pullman in the proper colour scheme for months

I just can't afford it now

 

I think it's because I grew up only seeing the later livery ..... And loved both the ECML Pullmans and the WCML mk2 pullmans in that scheme

Edited January 9, 2018 by Foulounoux

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Still recovering after looking at those SR Pullmans.........

 

Back to the Blue Pullmans; don't forget there was also, for a time, a midday fill-in turn out and back to Oxford

[TravisM]

What was the diagram for the 6 car Pullmans or did they use what was available on the day, either a 6 or 8 car set on the diagram?  Were they based at Old Oak or Bristol?

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Off the top of my head, x2 6-car Bristol -Padd. Then split; one to Bristol and the other to Oxford. Then after arrival at Padd in late afternoon, join as x2 6-car to Bristol. The South Wales Pullman was 8-car

[rodent279]

Off the top of my head, x2 6-car Bristol -Padd. Then split; one to Bristol and the other to Oxford. Then after arrival at Padd in late afternoon, join as x2 6-car to Bristol. The South Wales Pullman was 8-car

What were the passenger loadings like on the 12-car sets, does anyone have any figures?

[Rugd1022]

I haven't checked Kevin Robertson's BP books but I think the mid-day Oxford run only lasted a year at most from around January / February '67, at which time both six car sets were in Nanking Blue with full yellow ends (but with the multiple working gubbins fitted too of course).

[robertcwp]

What were the passenger loadings like on the 12-car sets, does anyone have any figures?

No figures but there were only 36 more first class seats and the same number of second class as a standard 8-car set.

 

The 12-car sets were split up around 1971 and mixed with the 8-car sets. One 8-car set with three trailer parlour firsts became the regular set on the Bristol Pullman towards the end.

 

Blue-Pull_upBristolPull_RoyalOak_30-4-73 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[robertcwp]

I haven't checked Kevin Robertson's BP books but I think the mid-day Oxford run only lasted a year at most from around January / February '67, at which time both six car sets were in Nanking Blue with full yellow ends (but with the multiple working gubbins fitted too of course).

The off-peak Pullmans had all ceased by the time the 6-car sets were repainted into grey/blue, early in 1970. They were the final ones to be done. Prior to that, a hybrid set had appeared formed of 4 out of 6 in nanking blue and 4 out of 8 in grey/blue.

 

Two from George Woods:

Blue Pullman Paddington 5.69 by George Woods, on Flickr

 

Blue Pullman Paddington 5.69 by George Woods, on Flickr

[The Johnster]

The grey/blue Pullman livery looked good IMHO on the mk 2 aircon vehicles for the Liverpool/Manchester electric services, but pretty awful on anything else.  But I doubt the Nanking Blue/White would have suited any of the earlier vehicles, including the Metro Cammell mk1s, to my mind the best looking passenger vehicles ever produced for the UK in umber/cream livery.  Older Pullmans are too slab sided for my taste.

 

I didn't like grey/blue on the WR sets, which may have been down to the way it was applied as much as anything else; I didn't think the large yellow panels suited anything, which included the Blue Pullmans (it saved lives, though, which is more important), and the area of unbroken grey between the end of the blue window surround stripe and the warning panel looked awkward and odd.  Maybe it would have looked better had the blue continued as far as the warning panel.  The repeat of the livery on the prototype HST was no better and the production blue/grey was much better.

 

The above are my opinions, and anyone is perfectly justified in not agreeing with them for any reason whatever it is.  

[ianwales]

No figures but there were only 36 more first class seats and the same number of second class as a standard 8-car set.

 

 

Hi Robert

 

I Thought the 12 car set was the 2 ex Midland Pullman sets coupled together, in which case they were first class only as the midland sets never had 2nd class provision?

 

Ian

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Hi Robert

 

I Thought the 12 car set was the 2 ex Midland Pullman sets coupled together, in which case they were first class only as the midland sets never had 2nd class provision?

 

Ian

 

Think some of the seating was reclassified as "second".

[robertcwp]

Think some of the seating was reclassified as "second".

Yes, the driving motors and the kitchen cars were downgraded to second, giving 60 second class seats and 72 first class in each 6-car set. A standard 8-car set seated 108 first and 120 second.

 

I doubt that much changed on downgrading as the seats were the same in the proper second class cars apart from the pitch being different and not reclining. I suppose it's possible that the handles to make the seats recline were removed on the downgraded cars but that is pure speculation.

[The Johnster]

This was necessary as, while the original 'Midland Pullman' 6 car sets were all first class, the WR sets had always included second class accommodation and the ticketing arrangements demanded that it be provided, even as downgraded 1st class seating.

[TravisM]

When both 6 and 8 car sets were on the Western Region, were the coaches and power cars mixed and matched?  There is a MU equipped power car on the end of a 8 car set posted on here but did the sets remain stable and swop power cars like present day HST's or could coaches from a 6 car set end up in a 8 car set and vice versa?

[robertcwp]

When both 6 and 8 car sets were on the Western Region, were the coaches and power cars mixed and matched?  There is a MU equipped power car on the end of a 8 car set posted on here but did the sets remain stable and swop power cars like present day HST's or could coaches from a 6 car set end up in a 8 car set and vice versa?

Yes, from the Autumn of 1971 onwards it appears. By 1973, all three sets in regular service were a mix. Two were standard 8-car sets apart from having one power car from a 6-car set and the other one, used on the Bristol Pullman, was 4 cars from a 6-car set and 4 from an 8-car set, so it had three trailer parlour firsts.

[Karhedron]

Both the 6-car and 8-car units appeared on the Berks and Hants from time to time, due to diversions from the usual route due to problems.  Also, when the 6-car units were transferred to the Western region, driver training was carried out between Reading and Westbury.

Here is a driver training run at Newbury still in the "custard-dip" livery. According to Railcar.org, in 1970 on the 15th August there was a Paddington - Newbury Racecourse Special taking them over the Berks & Hants line.

 

[br2975]

How many knew that during 1971-1972 

.

1C27 the 09:00 Paddington - Swansea was known as the "South Wales Pullman", whereas

.

1C93 the 17:35 Paddington - Swansea was known as the "Swansea Pullman" ?

.

Brian R