Jump to content


Google Ads are only seen by non-members of RMweb - Create an RMweb account and you'll only receive modelling ads.

Posted Image What was your favourite model of 2017? Cast your vote


Photo
- - - - -

My/our carriage scratch building thread

Scratch building coaches carriages GE LNER model bespoke bogie tools




  • Please log in to reply
52 replies to this topic

#1 gobbler

gobbler

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 217 posts
  • LocationColchester, Essex

Posted 10 January 2018 - 13:19

Welcome to my/our coach building thread. This will be used to share and learn different methods and techniques so Please feel free to add any comments, tips, ideas, your progress, questions and any other crits you may have.
This thread is primarily to show how I do things and will hopefully inspire others, I mean you the reader, to have a go at building something bespoke to your requirements for your model railway.

The skills shared and learnt here are quite transferable to locomotive, structure and vehicle modelling. My preferred scale is 4mm or OO, but what happens in this thread can be for most scales.

I'll start off by listing the main basic set of tools you'll need.

Vernier calliper - used for marking out dimensions. My weapon of choice is a 10" mititoyo. Make sure the the end by the anvils are flush as this is the edge you'll use for marking your dims.

Knife - use something your comfortable with, I personally use a scalpel with 10A blades

Rule - has to be steel, I use a 6"/150mm and a 12"/300mm rule

Square - a good steel square is a must

Drill bits - various sizes from 0.2mm and up. Some reamers and dental burrs are handy as well

Files/abrasives - a set of needle files and varying grades of abrasive sheet will not go amiss

Dividers - I use a steel type with one leg sharpened to cut radii

G-clamps - can be useful too. I have some small clamps I made as an apprentice at Marconi

And that's about it, tools wise. Apart from the books you'll need to build the coaches from the only other expense would be the vernier, which you can get from about £10 for a 6"/150mm digital type but the longer the better, as you don't get many carriages that short!

Consumables
Plastic sheet - varying thicknesses. I mainly use 0.8mm for the bulk of construction

Plastic strip - Evergreen pre cut strips of differing widths and thicknesses are useful as cutting your can be difficult, well, I haven't found a way of doing it successfully anyway.

Glue - I've used various manufacturers such as Mel Pak, Humbrol, Revell contacta etc... but my favourite yet is Tamiya extra thin

cyanoacrylate - (super glue) in its varying forms. On reflection I should have used a thicker super glue on the bars of my CCT windows

Two part epoxy - may come in handy on certain occasions but I do not use it regularly.

Mustn't forget the books!!!!
I'll be using Nick Camplings book, Historic railway carriages Vol 1 LNER and constituents

That's it for now, However there'll be other stuff that crops up from time to time like brass and white metal detailing bits, pin point bearings and wheels etc...

Hope to have your company along the way..,,

Scott

Edited by gobbler, 10 January 2018 - 14:00 .

  • Like x 7
  • Informative/Useful x 2

Google Ads are only seen by non-members of RMweb - Create an RMweb account and you'll only receive modelling ads.

#2 gobbler

gobbler

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 217 posts
  • LocationColchester, Essex

Posted 10 January 2018 - 22:50

Well I've plumped for the GER lavatory composite and corridor third.

So I've cut to length and width of the main body side panel.
The length is a dead length, however with the height of the side, I need to take into consideration the tumble home. For this I've added an extra 0.5mm

IMG_5279.JPG

Remembering to mark out on the back, I've made a start on marking out all window appatures making sure the dimensions come from the top (roof edge level).

So now I/we have made a start

After all the windows are marked out, I'll be cutting them out and heavily scoring the tumble home line. So I won't be doing much on this thread for a couple of days, but I'll still be watching it. Any Q's and I'll answer them.

Cheers

Scott
  • Like x 6

#3 gobbler

gobbler

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 217 posts
  • LocationColchester, Essex

Posted 11 January 2018 - 00:07

One last post before beddy byes

All the windows marked out now for cutting out.

IMG_5280.JPG

Just roughly at the moment, until all the bulk of plastic has been removed from all the windows

Nun-nite

Scott
  • Like x 7

#4 Nelson Jackson

Nelson Jackson

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,375 posts
  • LocationNorthern Ireland

Posted 11 January 2018 - 00:57

Love the idea of this thread, and really look forward to updates, awesome!
  • Agree x 3
  • Thanks x 1

#5 gobbler

gobbler

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 217 posts
  • LocationColchester, Essex

Posted 11 January 2018 - 07:28

Cheers Nelson,

I don't claim to be an expert or have the definitive answers but I've been getting reasonable results, but hopefully if we can all work together we can help each other improve as we gain experience.

So don't forget to post your experiences and progress.

Scott

#6 jwealleans

jwealleans

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 5,868 posts

Posted 11 January 2018 - 07:53

Looking forward to seeing how you do what you do, Scott. The results are very good.

This carriage is actually a luggage (or lavatory) composite - the corridor 3rd is the 50' vehicle in the lower drawing. Dan Pinnock used to do this and I think Bill Bedford still offers it. Mine is from Bill.

ge_compo_thurston.jpg

You can't have too many of these on a GE section layout, they get everywhere. There is a 6 wheel version of this body style as well.

The 50' stock came later and is very common in photos throughout the LNER and early BR period. This is the corridor side of the corridor 3rd.

ge_3_1.jpg

That lower panelling is very distinctive and it was the difficulty of consistently reproducing that which put me off trying to scratchbuild these. This one came from Worsley Works.

Edited by jwealleans, 11 January 2018 - 07:54 .

  • Like x 8

#7 gobbler

gobbler

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 217 posts
  • LocationColchester, Essex

Posted 11 January 2018 - 09:49

Thanks Jonathan

I wanted a clerestory style coach to add a bit of variety.

There must be other types such as a full third and brake/3rd with the same style roof, but google is coming up a bit short with any references.
I may be showing my lack of knowledge but I thought that Clerestory referred to the extra top lights that run on top of the roof?

Great pictures, thanks again for you post.

Scott

#8 Fat Controller

Fat Controller

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 14,143 posts

Posted 11 January 2018 - 09:55

Thanks Jonathan

I wanted a clerestory style coach to add a bit of variety.

There must be other types such as a full third and brake/3rd with the same style roof, but google is coming up a bit short with any references.
I may be showing my lack of knowledge but I thought that Clerestory referred to the extra top lights that run on top of the roof?

Great pictures, thanks again for you post.

Scott

It's not just the windows, but the whole raised centre-section of the roof; an idea pinched from religious architecture. https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Clerestory gives a good description.



#9 gobbler

gobbler

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 217 posts
  • LocationColchester, Essex

Posted 11 January 2018 - 23:15

Evenin' all

All windows cut and tumble home scored and bent

IMG_5289.JPG

Thats it for this evenin

Tomorrow the ends and compartment dividing walls

Cheers

Scott
  • Like x 8

#10 gobbler

gobbler

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 217 posts
  • LocationColchester, Essex

Posted 12 January 2018 - 22:15

Next step
Getting the partitions cut

IMG_5465.JPG

Well.......that's done. Have to make sure that the ends were 0.8mm(floor thickness) + 0.5mm (allowance for end radii) bigger than the internal partitions. Will add the compartment corridor walls after.

Cut the floor then start putting it together
  • Craftsmanship/Clever x 1
  • Like x 1

#11 griffgriff

griffgriff

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,818 posts

Posted 12 January 2018 - 22:41

It's not just the windows, but the whole raised centre-section of the roof; an idea pinched from religious architecture. https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Clerestory gives a good description.


It literally means ‘clear storey’

Griff

#12 brossard

brossard

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,684 posts
  • LocationA Bloke in Quebec

Posted 12 January 2018 - 23:23

That is some really good work.  I can't cut windows out to save my life.  Do you have concerns about the plastic warping?  Evergreen is known for this and it has happened to me on a building.  Good ventlation of the solvent is apparently very important.

 

I have David Jenkinsons book on scratch building coaches in 7mm.  https://britishrailw.../1874103321.php

 

John


Edited by brossard, 12 January 2018 - 23:26 .


#13 gobbler

gobbler

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 217 posts
  • LocationColchester, Essex

Posted 13 January 2018 - 00:27

Next bit

The compartment/corridor doors

IMG_5466.JPG

Just going to pop these in like this

IMG_5467.JPG

and let the whole thing dry overnight

So it's good night from me

Cheers

Scott
  • Craftsmanship/Clever x 5
  • Like x 3

#14 gobbler

gobbler

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 217 posts
  • LocationColchester, Essex

Posted 13 January 2018 - 00:37

John

Thanks for your question

Have I mentioned this is in 4mm/OO scale? Can't remember

Any way.......if a little warping does occur I can brace the top of the windows just below the roof line on this particular model. However if this was a Gresley suburban brake there's very little you can do because of the space between the top lights and roof. I know, I've built one as per my thread below.

Also the panelling that goes on top will hide any mistakes that have happened below the window line

That's been my experience. Making it up as you go along means there's no hard and fast rules you have to adhere to.

Hope the helps.

Scott

Edited by gobbler, 13 January 2018 - 01:00 .


#15 gobbler

gobbler

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 217 posts
  • LocationColchester, Essex

Posted 13 January 2018 - 00:43

Ah. I've just spotted I've put the 1st class corridor door/window panel in the wrong place

Oops

#16 kandc_au

kandc_au

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 935 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 00:59

Scott,

What thickness styrenne are you using or have I misread some of this thread?

 

Khris



#17 brossard

brossard

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,684 posts
  • LocationA Bloke in Quebec

Posted 13 January 2018 - 01:50

Yes Scott, I understand 4mm.  Jenkinsons methods translate to the smaller scale I reckon.

 

John


  • Thanks x 1
  • Agree x 1

#18 gobbler

gobbler

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 217 posts
  • LocationColchester, Essex

Posted 13 January 2018 - 07:24

Scott,
What thickness styrenne are you using or have I misread some of this thread?
 
Khris


Thanks for you Q Khris

The main construction is in either 0.75mm or 0.8mm. The next Layer is either 0.25mm or 0.3mm, whatever I can lay my hands on

Cheers Scott
  • Thanks x 1
  • Informative/Useful x 1

#19 gobbler

gobbler

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 217 posts
  • LocationColchester, Essex

Posted 13 January 2018 - 07:29

Yes Scott, I understand 4mm. Jenkinsons methods translate to the smaller scale I reckon.

John

I haven't read or seen Mr Jenkinson's book so I can't comment on how he does stuff. But if your an 'O' modeller I reckon your going to have to thicken everything up

What is your scale and regional interest by the way?

P.S cutting out windows isn't that bad. You might find cutting them smaller and then filing to the line easier. I use my scalpel for everything. I 'chain drill' a series of holes then thin slice by thin slice take it down to my scribed line. I find it gets trickier if your windows need a radius in each corner.

Scott

Edited by gobbler, 13 January 2018 - 07:36 .

  • Like x 1

#20 Barry O

Barry O

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,276 posts
  • LocationNow generally in Yorkshire....

Posted 13 January 2018 - 07:34

David Jenkinson used the same techniques in 4mm (EM) to built LMS coaches. He used different thicknesses of plasticard for 4mm v 7mm.

He may have done articles in the model railway press about building coaches before he produced his book.

Baz
  • Thanks x 1

#21 gobbler

gobbler

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 217 posts
  • LocationColchester, Essex

Posted 13 January 2018 - 07:37

Cheers Baz.

His books sound like they may be worth a read

I've just made stuff up as I've gone along, found the results looked ok and thought other modellers may be interested. Also with this thread I thought we could exchange ideas and give me tips on where to improve or to see if a different technique could improve the quality of my builds.

Scott

Edited by gobbler, 13 January 2018 - 07:44 .


#22 jwealleans

jwealleans

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 5,868 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 07:43

Jenkinson's book is well worth a look although as Baz says it's centred around 7mm models.

I think you're right about the clerestory profile and body style being used on other carriages, but the only possible source of drawings and information would be the Great Eastern Society and most specifically John Watling. I can't find my copy of the drawings CD they sell, but I don't recall any other drawings of this body style on there.
  • Thanks x 1

#23 Bucoops

Bucoops

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 244 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 08:01

I've recently asked the GERS about carriage drawings (in my case 54' suburbans) and they said they don't have much but the NRM has some.

 

The drawings you have there - where are they from please?


Edited by Bucoops, 13 January 2018 - 08:18 .


#24 Edwardian

Edwardian

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 5,643 posts
  • LocationLand of the Prince Bishops

Posted 13 January 2018 - 08:54

This is a useful and fascinating topic, and, I hope, will prompt me to have a go.

 

It so happens that this is the one GER bogie coach I am likely to want, and I will want it.  As Jonathan said, they got everywhere, and it would be perfectly proper in early days to see one running amongst 6-wheel stock, which is what I envisage doing.

 

Square lights certainly help.  I would be interested in how you might tackle earlier GE styles, which involve square bottom corners but large radius corners at the tops of the windows.

 

What I find particularly helpful is where you explain the technique, such as creating the aperture by drilling and then slicing gradually down to the line. 

 

Please keep this up, as I say, it is both fascinating and useful.


  • Like x 1

#25 asmay2002

asmay2002

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,065 posts
  • LocationPortsmouth

Posted 13 January 2018 - 09:02

Yes Scott, I understand 4mm.  Jenkinsons methods translate to the smaller scale I reckon.

 

John

David Jenkinson started in 4mm and built coaches the same way when he moved up to 7mm. The only difference is the thickness of the parts.


  • Thanks x 1
  • Agree x 1








Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Scratch building, coaches, carriages, GE, LNER, model, bespoke, bogie, tools

Google Ads are only seen by non-members of RMweb - Create an RMweb account and you'll only receive modelling ads.