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60009 Union of South Africa 1960 works plates

60009




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#26 pH

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 00:44

Perhaps towards the end of steam they were not carried continuously and only came out for high days and holidays.  

 

I saw 60009 regularly from November 1962 till it was withdrawn by BR in summer 1966. 60009 or 60011 was the regular power for the 17:30 Glasgow Buchanan Street to Aberdeen for many months. Later, other A4s were involved but 60009/11 still appeared. I have no recollection of seeing 'South Africa' cabside plates on 60009 during that time. And the cabside would have been the place we looked for the number as an A4 backed down from St. Rollox into the station - as soon as the engine was identified, there was a rush out of the station and down Buchanan Street to get the engine on the 17:30 St. Enochs to Carlisle before it left. Being able to identify the engine by cabside plates before the number was clearly visible would have given us a valuable start!


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#27 Silver Sidelines

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 10:56

Thank you again Trevor for sharing those model pictures.

..It represents the state it was in after its final overhaul at Doncaster in November 1963, to correspond with the picture you quoted, i.e. black nameplate, straight (not curly) numbers on smokebox and with crests on cab side. Checking with my own photo from 1964 (shown earlier) I now realise the cab crests should not be there, as I wanted to have it as I remembered it! Any suggestions as to how best to remove them, please? I also see the electrification flashes are not as per the prototype so I expect some T-cut and gentle application with a cotton bud should remove them? I have some flashes from a previous job which I can apply in the correct place - i.e. on the black smokebox side casing, not the green body. And apparently none at all near the top of the boiler...

 
Thank you also pH
 

I have no recollection of seeing 'South Africa' cabside plates on 60009 during that time. And the cabside would have been the place we looked for the number as an A4 backed down from St. Rollox into the station - as soon as the engine was identified, there was a rush out of the station and down Buchanan Street to get the engine on the 17:30 St. Enochs to Carlisle before it left. Being able to identify the engine by cabside plates before the number was clearly visible would have given us a valuable start!

 
If the overhead flashes were Pressfix Transfers removal may not prove to difficult - not too much white spirit. Not sure about the crests I guess it depends if they have been varnished over.   I had certainy toyed with the idea of placing one of the overhead warning signs on the black paint at the sideof the smokebox.
 
The 'green diesel era' KingsX pictures above (pre 1963 Doncaster Overhaul?) show cabside crests and overhead warning signs along the boiler.  These show the engine carrying the Elizabethan headboard so during its Haymarket days. There are also a couple of pictures of from 'cov59' above that show the prisitine engine at Ferryhill (and in traffic) with polished buffer heads and crests on the cab side.  I would say there is photographic evidence to show that when it first arrived at Ferryhil after its Doncaster overhaul the cabside crests were displayed.  However later photographs show 'clean' cab sides and as pH has said above he cannot remember seeing them whilst train spotting at Glasgow (short trouser days me thinks?).  It does rather support the theory that the not long after arrival in Aberdeen the crests were removed  (for safe keeping).
 
Cheers Ray


Edited by Silver Sidelines, 20 January 2018 - 11:05 .


#28 slilley

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 16:01

This other picture of 60009 at Darlington pre overhaul might be of interest as well.

 

Again courtesy of the Class 47 Preservation Project Archive.

 

Best wishes

 

Simon

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#29 Silver Sidelines

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 16:37

Thanks Simon  - a useful picture.

This other picture of 60009 at Darlington pre overhaul might be of interest as well..

When I enlarged the image I can see a rectangular outline on the cab side coinciding with the postion that a plate with the crests would have been.

 

Do you mean Darlington or perhaps Doncaster?  I only ask because others suggest that Lord Faringdon was the last A4 to get a major overhaul at Darlington

 

https://flic.kr/p/nzcFQJ

 

There is a lot of information in the thread here about 'South Africa' visiting Doncaster in 1963 for its last overhaul.

 

Ray


Edited by Silver Sidelines, 20 January 2018 - 16:38 .


#30 Trev52A

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 17:25

I think we are getting to the bottom of this!

 

Yesterday I checked with a friend of mine with a vast collection of railway pictures (not all of them his own) if 60009 had a late overhaul in Darlington Works. He sent me a picture of it receiving attention to the smokebox area, dated 3rd April 1964. This must be the occasion which has been mentioned several times on this thread, with the side-on views of the loco.Why it needed attention so soon after leaving Doncaster Works (November 1963) is still not clear (to me, anyway!)

I would suggest that this seems the likely time when the crests were removed from the cab sides. Seems logical?

So, pre-April 1964, with crests on cab sides. After April 1964, no crests.

 

Regarding the last A4 to be overhauled at Darlington Works. I would also suggest 60034 Lord Faringdon.

Here's one of mine of this loco taken on a Works Open Day on 3rd April 1965, with A3 60052 Prince Palatine beyond.

 

(366b) 60052+60034 Darlington Wks 03-04-65 (Trevor Ermel).jpg

You will have to take my word for it that it is 60034 as the cab end (which presumably had the number on it) is out of shot on the right.

 

HOWEVER this was not the last A4 to reach Darlington Works for an overhaul.

In May 1965 60010 Dominion of Canada arrived for attention (my friend has sent me a pic of this as well, dated 10th May 1065) but it was condemned due to the condition of the boiler, so it never went through the Works after all. It stood for several months on the site of Darlington mpd, (latterly minus its chimney) until it was towed to Crewe Works and cosmetically restored to BR late livery condition in 1966 for presentation to Canada. And, the rest, as they say, is history ... (Shildon Great Gathering, etc)

That would make a good pub quiz question - what was the last A4 to visit Darlington Works?

 

(Some of this information comes from the RCTS book 'Locomotives of the LNER Part 2A)

 

Cheers

Trevor


Edited by Trev52A, 20 January 2018 - 19:34 .

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#31 Silver Sidelines

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 18:59

Thank you Trevor - I think you are right!

I think we are getting to the bottom of this!.

From mid 1964 to the end of its BR time it looks to have been shaun of its cab side crests.

 

On the other hand at the start of the 1960s when still running on the ECML it seems to have had cab side crests (black plates and o/h warning signs).  I just need some courage now to adjust my model!

 

Regards Ray


Edited by Silver Sidelines, 20 January 2018 - 19:24 .


#32 Trev52A

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 19:11

Thank you Trevor - I think you are right!

From mid 1963 to the end of its BR time it looks to have been shaun of its cab side crests.

Regards Ray

 

A slip of the finger, there, Ray? You must mean 1964? (Definitely had them out of Doncaster Works in November 1963, as we have seen)

 

Cheers

Trevor


Edited by Trev52A, 20 January 2018 - 19:33 .


#33 Silver Sidelines

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 19:28

Thanks Trevor

 

Yes - 1964

 

The Post was typed in somewhat of a rush.  I had planned to amend the Post thanking you for all the time that you must have put in researching this topic for me, but you have beaten me - thank you.

 

A slip of the finger.....

 

Cheers

 

Ray


Edited by Silver Sidelines, 20 January 2018 - 19:29 .


#34 slilley

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 12:26

Thanks Simon  - a useful picture.

When I enlarged the image I can see a rectangular outline on the cab side coinciding with the postion that a plate with the crests would have been.

 

Do you mean Darlington or perhaps Doncaster?  I only ask because others suggest that Lord Faringdon was the last A4 to get a major overhaul at Darlington

 

https://flic.kr/p/nzcFQJ

 

There is a lot of information in the thread here about 'South Africa' visiting Doncaster in 1963 for its last overhaul.

 

Ray

Ray

 

It is definitely Darlington as the negative came to us with a number of others from Darlington works taken at the same time. Yeadon's Register Volume 2 shows 60009 in Darlington  for a Classified Light repair between 5th Feb 1964 and 18th April 1964. It had been at Doncaster for  a General Repair between 16th June 1963 and 6th November 1963. The last steam locomotive to be repaired there. Again this is from Yeadon's Register Volume 2.

 

Best wishes

 

Simon


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#35 Silver Sidelines

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 12:48

Thanks Simon

 

As already said to trevor - thank you for your time!

Ray

 

It is definitely Darlington as the negative came to us with a number of others from Darlington works taken at the same time. Yeadon's Register Volume 2 shows 60009 in Darlington  for a Classified Light repair between 5th Feb 1964 and 18th April 1964. It had been at Doncaster for  a General Repair between 16th June 1963 and 6th November 1963. The last steam locomotive to be repaired there. Again this is from Yeadon's Register Volume 2.

 

Best wishes

 

Simon

Yes Darlington it is - it all fits well with the other information that has been gleaned above.

 

I like pictures - not everything that is in written in books is correct.

 

Regards

 

Ray



#36 Trev52A

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 14:17

Thank you Trevor - I think you are right!

From mid 1964 to the end of its BR time it looks to have been shaun of its cab side crests.

 

On the other hand at the start of the 1960s when still running on the ECML it seems to have had cab side crests (black plates and o/h warning signs).  I just need some courage now to adjust my model!

 

Regards Ray

 

Me too, Ray! The electrification flashes on my model were not applied by the previous owner, they are (presumably) as per the original Hornby loco (remember, it started life as 60030). I'll experiment and try to remove one, and hope there is still green underneath! Then I have the job of removing the cab crests, which were applied as transfers  when it was renumbered to 60009.

 

It will be good to see pictures of the 'after' versions in due course - we've already seen the 'before'' shots.

 

Good fun.

Cheers

Trevor


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#37 Silver Sidelines

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 14:30

Thanks Trevor

....It will be good to see pictures of the 'after' versions in due course - we've already seen the 'before'' shots...

Ho ho - too snowy here today!

 

As you say 'Good fun'.

 

Cheers Ray


Edited by Silver Sidelines, 21 January 2018 - 14:30 .


#38 The Border Reiver

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 14:48

I think we are getting to the bottom of this!

 

Yesterday I checked with a friend of mine with a vast collection of railway pictures (not all of them his own) if 60009 had a late overhaul in Darlington Works. He sent me a picture of it receiving attention to the smokebox area, dated 3rd April 1964. This must be the occasion which has been mentioned several times on this thread, with the side-on views of the loco.Why it needed attention so soon after leaving Doncaster Works (November 1963) is still not clear (to me, anyway!)

I would suggest that this seems the likely time when the crests were removed from the cab sides. Seems logical?

So, pre-April 1964, with crests on cab sides. After April 1964, no crests.

 

Regarding the last A4 to be overhauled at Darlington Works. I would also suggest 60034 Lord Faringdon.

Here's one of mine of this loco taken on a Works Open Day on 3rd April 1965, with A3 60052 Prince Palatine beyond.

 

attachicon.gif(366b) 60052+60034 Darlington Wks 03-04-65 (Trevor Ermel).jpg

You will have to take my word for it that it is 60034 as the cab end (which presumably had the number on it) is out of shot on the right.

 

HOWEVER this was not the last A4 to reach Darlington Works for an overhaul.

In May 1965 60010 Dominion of Canada arrived for attention (my friend has sent me a pic of this as well, dated 10th May 1065) but it was condemned due to the condition of the boiler, so it never went through the Works after all. It stood for several months on the site of Darlington mpd, (latterly minus its chimney) until it was towed to Crewe Works and cosmetically restored to BR late livery condition in 1966 for presentation to Canada. And, the rest, as they say, is history ... (Shildon Great Gathering, etc)

That would make a good pub quiz question - what was the last A4 to visit Darlington Works?

 

(Some of this information comes from the RCTS book 'Locomotives of the LNER Part 2A)

 

Cheers

Trevor

 

Here is a shot I took of 60010 on Darlington shed in November 1965. It is on the works dead line and without its chimney. I also have a shot of 60020 in Darlinton works yard taken on Easter Monday, 30th April 1964

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#39 Silver Sidelines

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 17:28

Thanks - 52 years ago and still with us

 

https://en.wikipedia...inion_of_Canada

 

Here is a shot I took of 60010 on Darlington shed in November 1965. It is on the works dead line and without its chimney. I also have a shot of 60020 in Darlinton works yard taken on Easter Monday, 30th April 1964

 

60010 looks to be parked up with a WD 8F- for model makers an interesting comparison in buffer heights.  Perhaps exagerated by the lack of coal and water in the A4's tender.

 

Regards

 

Ray



#40 Silver Sidelines

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 16:00

An update.

40294401232_2a7780ee31_c.jpg
Bachmann A4 60009 1960s style crests and warning plates

Finally made time to add some Pressfix overhead warning symbols and cab crests from Fox Transfers.

A reminder, how the real thing looked (as was in 1960 / 1961).

38906015224_c46e72cdc2_c.jpg
60009 Union of South Africa at Kings X in the 'green diesel era'

Ray



#41 Trev52A

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 21:54

An update.

40294401232_2a7780ee31_c.jpg
Bachmann A4 60009 1960s style crests and warning plates

Finally made time to add some Pressfix overhead warning symbols and cab crests from Fox Transfers.

A reminder, how the real thing looked (as was in 1960 / 1961).

38906015224_c46e72cdc2_c.jpg
60009 Union of South Africa at Kings X in the 'green diesel era'

Ray

 

You've beaten me, Ray. My No.9 still has a long way to go!

Nicely done.

 

Trevor


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#42 Silver Sidelines

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 22:17

Thanks Trevor

 

... My No.9 still has a long way to go!....

 

I still have to sort out the colour of the rods.

 

Regards

 

Ray