Unscientific, not guaranteed to be representative, age versus modelled era poll

[john flann]

Responding  to post #247 and as 0.27% of the sample, I think I would place more reliance on the current wealth of documented railway matters than the memory of an old man.

 

However, if my memory was prompted by a particular question, then I could search it and maybe offer something.

 

However, this doesn't seem the correct thread for such a matter.

 

And, should you be interested further in my activities the links to my RM thread and website are below. Also I have written numerous model railway articles (most recent RM January 2018) and had fifteen articles published in Back Track.

Edited January 24, 2018 by john flann

[gobbler]

Would also be interested in company/region.

 

LMS, LNER, GE, Southern, GWR etc.....

 

Maybe on the next poll

 

Scott

[BMacdermott]

Hello Gobbler

 

Did you see my earlier post (238)?

 

Additionally to that, I sorted out the votes for those who collected from one region only (they could vote for as many as were valid). The figures relate to the collections of the respondents – in other words, what models they have as ‘physical possessions’ – as opposed to what they might or might not have as a model railway.

 

48 - SR only

35 - LMR + ER

31 - ER only

27 - WR only

26 - LMR only

23 - All four

 

Brian

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I remember the MREmag poll (post 238) as probably settling the question of 'what's most popular?' ( a far larger sample ios really required, but hey, we have to make do with what we have). The one time dominance of 'Western' driven by RTR provision is now over, because there is now better coverage from around the UK. Interest and following is heavily influenced by availability of RTR models in short, is my reading of this.

 

That's what leads me to suspect that the long term neglect of northern England and Scotland by RTR manufacturers, now presents an opportunity. Produce RTR for that area and 'they will come'. Previous purchases will be packed up or sold on, and new RTR models of novel subjects will be purchased.

[wombatofludham]

If one goes by the usual yardstick that most of us don't retain very much in the way of detailed memories of "ordinary" experiences before age 10, that would only take him/her back to the latter half of the 1930s.

 

My mother is 89 and the bulk of her youthful memories start around the final year or so at primary school. I'd say the same broadly applies to me.

 

I did become somewhat obsessive about railways from about age 8 and recollect more about that than pretty much anything else that was happening at the time........ .

 

Typical? No idea.

 

John

I don't know. By contrast, I do have quite a few vivid memories (not false memory syndrome either) from age 4-5. I remember seeing the pictures of the Hixon disaster on the front page of the Express and Star a few days before my 5th birthday. On a much happier note I vividly recall seeing the Manchester "Blue" Pullman running down the Trent Valley line towards London which must have been in about 1967 as the loco-hauled Manchester Pullman began in late 1967. I can remember lots of countryside walks with my parents along the canal watching the new electric trains, and then my first days at infant school which was next to the railway, again loads of memories of early AC electrics, mixed livery trains, loose coupled freight and the odd-ball trains like the afternoon "Brickliner", which often co-incided with pre-hometime story reading sessions outdoors on fine days, double headed by two very noisy Brush Type 2s being thrashed. The sight of these two "rare" diesels bellowing past whilst Mrs Niblett tried in vain to tell the story above the racket is still clear over 50 years later. Mrs N., God rest her memory, gave up trying to get me to concentrate on lessons outdoor in the summer when there were trains about, she knew it was a thankless task.

 

In fact it's these retained memories, vivid and clear, that are driving my principal modelling interests. I suspect the reason why they have become rooted is it co-incided with possibly the happiest period of my life, and the fact that I have a very good, highly developed visual memory. I hated secondary school, and the death of my mother in 1973 when I was 10 meant that the 70s are less vivid, mainly because of school and home life. That said, despite the 70s being less happy I do have an obsessional interest in 70s design and architecture so perhaps I don't have such a downer on that decade after all.

[Nearholmer]

Memory is definitely a strange thing.

 

Having confessed to a bizarre false memory previously, I will also say that I have plenty of genuine, very clear, ‘snapshot’ memories of the kind mentioned by Wombat, back to about age c5. I can clearly remember one reading lesson, and numerous other things, from infants school. And a very few memories that I’m fairly certain date from even earlier ...... being carried upstairs to bed by my father when I was probably still a toddler, for instance.

 

What I think ‘kicks in’ somewhere around age 9 is a better conscious memory, and I can recall at age c11 the point when I properly became aware of ‘self’ for the first time, when the little chaps at the back, and the little bloke at the front were consciously separate for the first time ...... the actual moment and place when it ‘clicked’.

 

There’s a world of stuff between our ears!

[The Stationmaster]

I don't know. By contrast, I do have quite a few vivid memories (not false memory syndrome either) from age 4-5. I remember seeing the pictures of the Hixon disaster on the front page of the Express and Star a few days before my 5th birthday. On a much happier note I vividly recall seeing the Manchester "Blue" Pullman running down the Trent Valley line towards London which must have been in about 1967 as the loco-hauled Manchester Pullman began in late 1967. I can remember lots of countryside walks with my parents along the canal watching the new electric trains, and then my first days at infant school which was next to the railway, again loads of memories of early AC electrics, mixed livery trains, loose coupled freight and the odd-ball trains like the afternoon "Brickliner", which often co-incided with pre-hometime story reading sessions outdoors on fine days, double headed by two very noisy Brush Type 2s being thrashed. The sight of these two "rare" diesels bellowing past whilst Mrs Niblett tried in vain to tell the story above the racket is still clear over 50 years later. Mrs N., God rest her memory, gave up trying to get me to concentrate on lessons outdoor in the summer when there were trains about, she knew it was a thankless task.

 

In fact it's these retained memories, vivid and clear, that are driving my principal modelling interests. I suspect the reason why they have become rooted is it co-incided with possibly the happiest period of my life, and the fact that I have a very good, highly developed visual memory. I hated secondary school, and the death of my mother in 1973 when I was 10 meant that the 70s are less vivid, mainly because of school and home life. That said, despite the 70s being less happy I do have an obsessional interest in 70s design and architecture so perhaps I don't have such a downer on that decade after all.

The Manchester Pullman Mk2 loco hauled caches introduced in 1966 were in the reverse grey/blue scheme from the start.  The 'Midland Pullman' diesel pullman sets were in the nanking blue livery but ran on the old Midland route to Manchester from St Pancras although they did get on various specials (e.g for the Grand National) so conceivably might have appeared on the Trent Valley mainline on a special.

[wombatofludham]

The Manchester Pullman Mk2 loco hauled caches introduced in 1966 were in the reverse grey/blue scheme from the start.  The 'Midland Pullman' diesel pullman sets were in the nanking blue livery but ran on the old Midland route to Manchester from St Pancras although they did get on various specials (e.g for the Grand National) so conceivably might have appeared on the Trent Valley mainline on a special.

I assumed it was something like that. All I know is I was very excited to see it because even at that age I knew it was something different, and amazingly that Christmas my dad bought me (actually, as I was 5 at the time, probably himself...) a Car-a-Belle and Blue Pullman train sets. Funny how those two things are linked.

 

I also recall the Liverpool Pullmans which had the half Pullman and half Mk2a second class formation with an RMB in the second class section. I always liked to see the Pullmans passing the school when sat in class as it marked about 10 minutes until playtime!

[brianusa]

While I cannot claim to be in the Ninety age category, an interest in real trains started in the middle of WW2 by cousins of LMS bent who introduced me to such names as "Jubilees" and "Claughtons" which was strange as I lived in Plymouth amongst "Castles" and "Kings".  Long term memory is supposed to be better than short so I can relate to a lot of railway related events, much better than most other things.

 

Brian.

[Reorte]

While I cannot claim to be in the Ninety age category, an interest in real trains started in the middle of WW2 by cousins of LMS bent who introduced me to such names as "Jubilees" and "Claughtons" which was strange as I lived in Plymouth amongst "Castles" and "Kings".  Long term memory is supposed to be better than short so I can relate to a lot of railway related events, much better than most other things.

Going a bit off-topic, but can you tell this (relative) youngster how "Claughton" is pronounced? One of those issues you have when you only ever see a name written down. My head tells me "Clayton", but that's probably based on nothing.

[Nearholmer]

Claw-tun.

 

A very direct descendant of the LNWR Director after whom the loco was named is a keen collector of vintage model trains, and that’s how he pronounces it.

 

Kevin

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_Claughton

Edited February 2, 2018 by Nearholmer

[sp1]

Claw-tun.

 

A very direct descendant of the LNWR Director after whom the loco was named is a keen collector of vintage model trains, and that’s how he pronounces it.

 

Kevin

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_Claughton

I agree with ‘claw-tun’. He is/ was a distant cousin of mine. There was a school here in Dudley (closed, but the very ornate building survives) named after him. His former house, Priory Hall, is now the local Register Office, situated in the grounds of the former Dudley Priory.

[Compound2632]

I found myself in a dilemma over the third section, having indicated that my modelling covered both pre-grouping and early crest BR. I boastfully plumped for "mostly kits or hand built" which is perforce true of my pre-grouping modelling but far from true for my early BR stuff - though I do have quite a number of wagons from Parkside kits. I model early BR in part because it's easy with the wealth of RTR these days - particularly for the Midland division of LMR (5XP, 5MT, Crab, 4P compound, 2P; 8F, G2, 4F, 3F; 4P and 3F tanks...) - though also inspired by Terry Essery's Firing Days at Saltley - a most atmospheric book. I model pre-grouping Midland because it's what I'm really interested in. So I have different approaches to and reasons for modelling both these periods, both well before my birth!

Edited February 5, 2018 by Compound2632

[sem34090]

Coming back to this topic after a brief forgetting-about-it...

 

It is interesting for me to note that there are more 15-19 and 20-24 year olds (total: 16) than >75 year olds (total: 6), and that pre-grouping is more popular than both 'Privatisation' and 'contemporary' combined! This latter fact is particularly interesting and perhaps goes some way to prove than my generation, and the ones immediately before and after, are moving to model earlier eras, having been uninspired by the current scene. I have no doubt that the first memory of a railway for many of these will have been a heritage railway, even though this is not the case for me (My first memory being my mum holding me up to the window of a Slam-Door EMU coming into Guildford!) I have been told that I had actually visited the MHR and even the Bluebell several times before the trip to Guildford. Railways for many people break down into two categories, and some don't even associate the modern railway with heritage railways. The train into London, invariably an EMU for many people now (Even at Paddington. I think only Chiltern operate a soley-diesel service into London now) may be the bain of someone's life, but a trip from East Grinstead to Sheffield Park behind an SECR O1, in a comfortable 'Birdcage' compartment, or even behind a Standard 5 in a MK1 or Bulleid, is a pleasurable experience. I know several people who actively hate travelling by train, but have remarked to me (as the local railway enthusiast!) that they have enjoyed a weekend trip on the Bluebell, MHR, KESR, NYMR, etc...

[tomparryharry]

As a small child, I remember being held up to look over the wall at Crystal Palace High Level station, then recently disused. Between that, it was anywhere between Forest Hill, Brighton, & South Wales.

 

I'm sure I saw my first Blue Pullman at Reading, working through the main lines. Year escapes me.

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

[Dunsignalling]

I don't know. By contrast, I do have quite a few vivid memories (not false memory syndrome either) from age 4-5. I remember seeing the pictures of the Hixon disaster on the front page of the Express and Star a few days before my 5th birthday. On a much happier note I vividly recall seeing the Manchester "Blue" Pullman running down the Trent Valley line towards London which must have been in about 1967 as the loco-hauled Manchester Pullman began in late 1967. I can remember lots of countryside walks with my parents along the canal watching the new electric trains, and then my first days at infant school which was next to the railway, again loads of memories of early AC electrics, mixed livery trains, loose coupled freight and the odd-ball trains like the afternoon "Brickliner", which often co-incided with pre-hometime story reading sessions outdoors on fine days, double headed by two very noisy Brush Type 2s being thrashed. The sight of these two "rare" diesels bellowing past whilst Mrs Niblett tried in vain to tell the story above the racket is still clear over 50 years later. Mrs N., God rest her memory, gave up trying to get me to concentrate on lessons outdoor in the summer when there were trains about, she knew it was a thankless task.

 

In fact it's these retained memories, vivid and clear, that are driving my principal modelling interests. I suspect the reason why they have become rooted is it co-incided with possibly the happiest period of my life, and the fact that I have a very good, highly developed visual memory. I hated secondary school, and the death of my mother in 1973 when I was 10 meant that the 70s are less vivid, mainly because of school and home life. That said, despite the 70s being less happy I do have an obsessional interest in 70s design and architecture so perhaps I don't have such a downer on that decade after all.

I have two especially vivid early memories; one of crossing the Clifton Suspension bridge in the rear sidecar seat of my dad's BSA combination and (for some reason) seeing an American Bison at Bristol Zoo the same day. The other of seeing/having my attention drawn to a black diesel passing us on one of my frequent walks/pushchair rides along Valley Path in Axminster which was my only permitted route to my grandmother's house.

 

In both cases, I was around three-and-a-half years old. In later life, I learned that all the other SR & LMS diesels had been transferred to the LMR rather earlier, and was able to deduce that "my" loco must have been 10203. So, first bit of trainspotting, even though I didn't realise it at the time!

 

That said, I stick by my thought that, for most of us, the bulk of our (non-traumatic) detailed memories start accumulating  in the latter half of our primary school years.  

 

John

Edited March 5, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[brianusa]

Most of us have train related memories from an early age which may have prompted the interest that remains today.  Perhaps I am fortunate that I can remember railway related incidents formed years ago that a lot herein may have missed, long scrapped steam locos, unfitted goods trains, engine sheds full of engines being coaled and tank engines shunting clanking trucks in huge yards.  If you are indeed modelling this era, you have missed a lot.

 

Brian.

[Mike Storey]

Coming back to this topic after a brief forgetting-about-it...

 

It is interesting for me to note that there are more 15-19 and 20-24 year olds (total: 16) than >75 year olds (total: 6), and that pre-grouping is more popular than both 'Privatisation' and 'contemporary' combined! This latter fact is particularly interesting and perhaps goes some way to prove than my generation, and the ones immediately before and after, are moving to model earlier eras, having been uninspired by the current scene. I have no doubt that the first memory of a railway for many of these will have been a heritage railway, even though this is not the case for me (My first memory being my mum holding me up to the window of a Slam-Door EMU coming into Guildford!) I have been told that I had actually visited the MHR and even the Bluebell several times before the trip to Guildford. Railways for many people break down into two categories, and some don't even associate the modern railway with heritage railways. The train into London, invariably an EMU for many people now (Even at Paddington. I think only Chiltern operate a soley-diesel service into London now) may be the bain of someone's life, but a trip from East Grinstead to Sheffield Park behind an SECR O1, in a comfortable 'Birdcage' compartment, or even behind a Standard 5 in a MK1 or Bulleid, is a pleasurable experience. I know several people who actively hate travelling by train, but have remarked to me (as the local railway enthusiast!) that they have enjoyed a weekend trip on the Bluebell, MHR, KESR, NYMR, etc...

 

You can certainly deduce that from the stats. But it occurs to me that many more privatisation era layouts have been appearing in mags, on here and at the few UK MRE's I have managed to attend in the past several years, but not very many pre-grouping layouts at all. In either case, one cannot draw too many conclusions.

[sem34090]

That's very true... 

 

But then again none of my pre-grouping stuff has ever seen the light of an exhibition hall, but my BR Stuff has.

 

Also, the content of both shows and magazines is often dictated by the individual show manager or editor: our club show manager is a BR Blue Diesel nutter, and the show reflected that with only 2 or 3 steam-era layouts, but over 10 post-steam ones, of which 7 were pre-privatisation.

[Andy Hayter]

Actually you cannot deduce that younger modellers are taking up pre-grouping.   I do however accept that it is possible.

 

Yes there is an increase in the take up of pre-grouping (as judged by previous polls).  Yes there are more young modellers - putting the link between the two is however unproven.

 

A lack of exhibition or magazine layouts may be due however to a lack of cohesion in the rtr offerings which make it difficult to construct sufficient stock of any one company to provide the basis for a layout for either of the two purposes.  A lot of scratch building or kit building is still needed to reach a suitable end result.

 

On the other hand you could build a not too bad modern layout straight from the boxes.

[009 micro modeller]

My responses were a bit meaningless as I model in 009 with no specific period. I do have a layout based on a local, still operating industrial 2ft gauge line which could be classed as modern or contemporary but equally the prototype has been roughly the same for the past 50-100 years.

[JSpencer]

I'm old enough to remember Tops and sectorisation periods quite well. I also visited the Bluebell a lot as a kid. So yes I model these areas.

 

But the bulk of locos and rolling stock (easily 70%) fit BR steam periods (1948 to 1968) something I have no memory of period, nor were they covered much on preserved lines.

 

IF I had to pick a preferred historical period, it would be WWI and WWII, I do re-enacting, modeling of tanks and aircraft in the same scale as my trains but less than 1% of my rolling stock fit any of the actual time frames of WWI and WWII.