Unscientific, not guaranteed to be representative, age versus modelled era poll

[Dunsignalling]

It is a bit scary that the number (so far) of modellers aged between 0 and 40, is almost the same as those between 65 and 69. 

 

What of the future?

I'm guessing that's major factor in Hornby's "making hay while the suns shines" by catering for the latter while we are here to be catered for........ 

 

What will happen when we baby boomers "drop out of the demographic" is anybody's guess, but the changes are unlikely to be wholly positive.

 

At least it will no longer be possible to blame us for the lack of "modern image" (however defined) or pre-group models. 

 

John

Edited January 12, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[eastglosmog]

I expect that the younger (under 20) and older (over 75) enthusiast populations are less well represented on RMweb.

Well, don't think my 7.5 year old nephew is a member!

[GreenGiraffe22]

Would be great to have more younger modellers on the forum =) I've learnt so much here! If any young members are reading this and thinking about joining up but feel perhaps a little intimidated, the older guys and girls aren't that scary I was apprehensive at first, but I thoroughly enjoy the discussions here and have made new friends =)

[Mike Storey]

Would I be right in thinking that younger modellers tend to join the various Facebook model railway etc groups, as they tend towards that arena generally? When the Assoc of 16mm NG Modellers made the move from a basically Yahoo group, closed site, to a FB version, with all its links, it made a significant difference to participation.

 

That said, I would not want this forum to go down that route, as it is much harder to use and navigate and thread discussions tend to be much shorter. That is what attracted me here in the first place.

[Ozexpatriate]

It definitely does not represent my childhood experience or nostalgia of any kind, as my exposure to real railways in my early years was scant to say the least. So how could a poll be created to be inclusive of me and others like me? Those that don't quite fit in?

Bill, that is a challenge for someone constructing what I would call a 'comprehensive' poll.

 

This poll was pretty narrowly focused around the notion that a single period (largely influenced by individual age) is a governing factor when we choose our model railway subject. That your interests do not conform to a single period is meaningful input in this survey.

 

Thank you.

[Ozexpatriate]

I have filled the RTR bit it in with what I have running at the moment, not what I hope for the future, when I might get round to building some of the wagon kits I have got in store and do a bit of scratch building again!

Reflecting on the responses to the question, I wondered yesterday if I should have (perhaps facetiously) changed the "All RTR" answer to "All RTR excepting unassembled kits in the cupboard".

 

An interesting question in a larger survey might be variants on the theme of "Are the majority of your kits assembled or in storage?" or "On average, how long have your unassembled kits been in storage?".

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I don't fully accept the concern about 'all these older folks, too few young replacements coming through'. As we age, our tastes and abilities change. Younger people whose present interests may encompass any of leaping around frantically all night under the influence of mood altering substances, getting extremely cold and wet on something that floats or slides down hills, trying to insert a ball into 18 holes in the right order, add other interests of choice here; are by no means prevented from discovering that an interesting indoor hobby, done in the warm and dry, is available and might just replace something that one can no longer pursue so happily as the years go on.  That'll depend on the future marketing efforts of those selling the items that support such hobby interests.

 

Let's just say I have made a few 'converts' over the past dozen years among my contemporaries by plonking some of the rather good model railway items on the dinner table, while we are on the port or brandy. The usual reaction is on the lines of 'I had no idea that such good models were available'. On seeing how it runs the level of interest goes up again. Whether that will still happen with those having no prior interest I don't know: but good models have a charm, and lack of prior exposure may not lead to immunity...

[Dunsignalling]

Reflecting on the responses to the question, I wondered yesterday if I should have (perhaps facetiously) changed the "All RTR" answer to "All RTR excepting unassembled kits in the cupboard".

 

An interesting question in a larger survey might be variants on the theme of "Are the majority of your kits assembled or in storage?" or "On average, how long have your unassembled kits been in storage?".

Long enough for quite a lot of them to have been overtaken by the introduction of r-t-r equivalents.

 

John

[The Johnster]

You are clearly conversant with sales techniques, 34; not only demonstrating the superiority of modern RTR in terms of realism and running, but associating it with an aspirational port and brandy lifestyle; Edward Bernays (google him) would be proud of you.

 

I have spent some, though not a lot really, of the last 50 years since defining myself as a railway modeller at the age of 15 (definiton; one who a) takes a magazine every month, and b) has completed and attempted to paint a set of Ratio 4 wheelers that actually run without derailing) listening to the perennial moans of old timers, of whom I am one now, that the hobby is doomed because young people are not interested in it.  Generations of them keep disproving this.  There is still, no doubt, a hiatus between starting off as a teenager, discovering girls, getting a poor deluded one to marry you and having a few anklebiters, then coming back in middle age when the anklebiters have flown the nest.

 

Plenty of yunguns in the pipeline, but what hobby they will inherit, one of real models with advanced DCC features or something a bit more VR, or a combination, is anyone's guess!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

No need for the googling, Bernays was on the required reading list within the large American based multinational in which I pursued the core of my career. It was rather alarming to discover as a technical guy that I had quite a gift for spin, and I have been working hard at keeping it in check ever since.

[eastglosmog]

Long enough for quite a lot of them to have been overtaken by the introduction of r-t-r equivalents.

 

John

Although some of them have been in store for 30 years, only a few of mine seem to have been overtaken by good rtr versions - the LMS 3 plank for one and most recently the WD D wagon.  May be I have just been lucky!

Regarding debate on youngsters entering the hobby, on my visits to the Bourton Model Railway (since the demise of Howes, it is my local model shop) there always seem to be quite a few children taking an active interest in model railways and spending their pocket money on them.  My young nephew is also following the one true way!

[Ozexpatriate]

Just for reference, Hattons also categorise their products (even non-Bachmann ones) by the Bachmann eras: http://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/1000818/United_Kingdom/eratypes.aspx

When I put the 'eras' together, I didn't have a Bachmann catalogue handy and punted a bit based on the illustrations AndyY provided in the 2018 Hornby announcement page.

 

Curiously Hornby has a list published on their US website (of all places).

 

Era ... Description ................... Date Range ... Example

1 ....... Pioneering .................... 1804-1869 .... Stephenson's 'Rocket'

2 ....... Pre-Grouping ............... 1870-1922 ..... Peckett W4

3 ....... Grouping ...................... 1923-1947 .... Wainwright H Class

4 ....... Early British Railways ...1948-1956 .... Gresley B17

5 ....... Late British Railways ... 1956-1968 .... Standard 4MT

6 ....... British Rail Pre-TOPS .. 1957-1971 .... Class 71

7 ....... British Rail TOPS ......... 1971-1986 .... Class 87

8 ........BR Sectorisation .......... 1982-1997 .... Class 50

9 ....... Privatisation ................. 1996-2008 .....Class 67

10 ..... Network Franchising .... 2006-2017 .... Class 60

11 ..... Present Day ................. 2014 on ........ Hitachi IEP

 

I note the overlaps, which is kind of an interesting spin on this. The keen eyed will notice that it is different from what is illustrated in Andy's version of the announcement* which ends with 1995+.

 

* And on which I based the questions - hence my 10 eras rather than 11.

 

Hattons uses the Bachmann key (I changed the ordering. For some reason 1 preceded 10.)

 

The Bachmann UK railway Eras

• UK rail era 1. Pioneering (1804 - 1874)
• UK rail era 2. Pre-grouping (1875 - 1922)
• UK rail era 3. The Big Four - LMS, GWR, LNER & SR (1923 - 1947)
• UK rail era 4. BR steam. Early Crest (1948 - 1956)
• UK rail era 5. BR steam. Late Crest (1957 - 1966)
• UK rail era 6. BR Corporate Blue. Pre -TOPS (1967 - 1971)
• UK rail era 7. BR Corporate Blue. Post -TOPS (1972 - 1982)
• UK rail era 8. BR Sectorisation (1983 - 1994)
• UK rail era 9. Initial Privatisation (1995 - 2004)
• UK rail era 10. Rebuilding of the Railways (2005 - 2015)
• UK rail era 11. Current Era (2016 - 2026)

Edited January 13, 2018 by Ozexpatriate

[Mike Storey]

I agree totally - the time overlaps are very sensible and far more likely in reality. I do not understand the rigidity of the present UK system.

[Clive Mortimore]

There is a flaw in the questions.

 

Which of the following best describes your rolling stock?

 

I answered truthfully mainly RTR, but I have over 30 scratchbuilt locos, heaps of other stock that is home made or converted RTR so the result is going to cockeyed.

[Clive Mortimore]

I always thought there was only a few periods of railway history, if go by liveries, which seems to be the way most are set up then here is the Midland Railway's

 

The Matthew Kirtley prehistoric

The Johnson Green era

The Johnson Crimson Lake flamboyant times

The Deeley clam and simplified period

Then after 1928 just one helL of a MesS

[newbryford]

 

 

Era ... Description ................... Date Range ... Example

 

8 ........BR Sectorisation .......... 1982-1997 .... Class 50

9 ....... Privatisation ................. 1996-2008 .....Class 67

10 ..... Network Franchising .... 2006-2017 .... Class 60

11 ..... Present Day ................. 2014 on ........ Hitachi IEP

 

 

 

Strange choice of examples for dates, given that the 50s were 1967-early 90s, with some soldiering onto 1994 (excepting preservation)

60s first started to appear in 1989 and the first 67s hit UK shores in 1999.

The IEP is pretty much 2017 onwards.

 

Then again - it's for the US market, so what would they know/care.....?

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Ozexpatriate]

Then again - it's for the US market, so what would they know/care.....?

Only that it clearly isn't for the US market - it's 100% British.

 

Were there a set of 'eras' for the US market, we'd have things like:

• the "transition era" Ca 1945-1955
• Early Amtrak 1971-????

etc.

The first Google hit is this.

[The Stationmaster]

Seems that both Hornby and Bachmann have a very strange understanding of when TOPS arrived on BR or indeed when locos began to be renumbered.  TOPS Trial Sites opened in late 1972/1973, national roll out of local sites began in 1974.

 

One interesting thing emerging thus far is that 'BR late crest' while predominating definitely does not reflect a level of interest that tallies with this old enough to take everyday notice of it while 'BR early crest' appears to interest more people than those you'd expect to have an everyday memory of it.  similarly 'BR blue pre TOPS' (sic) scores much lower than those who would have an everyday memory of it.  Which I suppose almost suggests that age might well not be entirely relevant when choosing an era to model - as is very clearly demonstrated by 'Pre-Grouping'.    Summary - there's more to it than your age and what you were familiar with on an everyday basis.

Edited January 13, 2018 by The Stationmaster

[BMacdermott]

Hello Oz

 

Well done on running this interesting exercise.

 

You have beaten The Poll Team to running a similar survey by about three weeks, so we are 'standing down'.

 

I'm not intending this post to sound like 'sour grapes' - just explaining a couple of things - but the Poll Team spent several weeks working out we called 'time-frames' (as opposed to 'eras'). There were 17 which included Broad Gauge and Preserved, along with a written rationale for each. Andy York had the draft for constructing the 'computerised elements' (as he kindly and ably does with The Wishlist Poll).

 

This would have given us the finer detail about specific time-frames as well as evaluating which age groups modelled which time-frames.

 

However, in the meantime, Hornby has introduced its eras, so this has added to our decision to stand down as the whole thing would get very confusing.

 

I will say (personally, but I'm sure The Team would agree with me) that you have come up with some extra, highly valid questions that weren't in our Survey.

 

All the best and I hope we can encourage lots more to vote! Perhaps the title could be abbreviated? I missed it until today.

 

Brian (on behalf of The Poll Team)

[Dunsignalling]

Not a huge cohort of responders so far, but the comparative shares for "pre-group" and "contemporary" followers surprise me.

 

Almost the reverse of what I would have guessed.

 

John

Edited January 13, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[asmay2002]

Which I suppose almost suggests that age might well not be entirely relevant when choosing an era to model - as is very clearly demonstrated by 'Pre-Grouping'.    Summary - there's more to it than your age and what you were familiar with on an everyday basis.

The direct question at the end tells us that only about a third of modellers model what they remember or can see today. The only surprise is that this number is as high as it is. In most modelling hobbies people model what is interesting.  It would be impossible to explain the popularity of the Napoleonic wars or sci-fi  as subjects otherwise.  Nevetheless, I expect the noisy minority to carry on telling us that we only model what we remember.

[BMacdermott]

Reflecting on the responses to the question, I wondered yesterday if I should have (perhaps facetiously) changed the "All RTR" answer to "All RTR excepting unassembled kits in the cupboard".

 

An interesting question in a larger survey might be variants on the theme of "Are the majority of your kits assembled or in storage?" or "On average, how long have your unassembled kits been in storage?".

 

Hello Oz

 

I ran a survey about kits on MREmag a while back. 

 

40 Respondents had 1-9 kits.

7 probably wouldn't build any.

18 would probably build some.

15 would probably build all

 

64 Respondents had 10+ kits

1 probably wouldn't build any

32 would probably build some

30 would probably build all.

 

12 respondents had between 10 and 49 kits

8 respondents had between 50 and 99 kits

7 respondents had 100+ kits

 

Brian

[t-b-g]

I always say that I don't model what I saw or remember. I have my memories for that. I model what I wish I had seen and can only see in old photos, a tiny amount of moving image film and in model form.

[Dunsignalling]

The direct question at the end tells us that only about a third of modellers model what they remember or can see today. The only surprise is that this number is as high as it is. In most modelling hobbies people model what is interesting.  It would be impossible to explain the popularity of the Napoleonic wars or sci-fi  as subjects otherwise.  Nevetheless, I expect the noisy minority to carry on telling us that we only model what we remember.

But that assumes that those who model what they can see or remember would find a different era more interesting if they hadn't made their choices on the basis they did.

 

It's entirely possible that they (and others) would make the same choices, but for different reasons, if they were taking up the hobby as beginners today.

 

Someone who finds the era he/she remembers interesting, might find it equally interesting without the memories.

 

John

[Clive Mortimore]

But that assumes that those who model what they can see or remember would find a different era more interesting if they hadn't made their choices on the basis they did.

 

It's entirely possible that they (and others) would make the same choices, but for different reasons, if they were taking up the hobby as beginners today.

 

Someone who finds the era he/she remembers interesting, might find it equally interesting without the memories.

 

John

Hi John

 

I basically model the railway scene I remember when I first became interested in trains, new clean diesels, DMUs where you could see along the tracks, fiery and sometimes scary steam locomotives and deep cushioned red carriages. 

 

I mainly trainspotted the green to blue changeover, I have a small WR engine stabling point layout where I can portray this time period. 

 

My main interest in historic railways is the Midland between 1907 when Deeley instigated quite revolutionary visual change to the locomotive fleet that lasted well past the grouping. I can sit for hours looking at photos of class 2 freight engines noting all the differences between individual machines. I don't model this time frame as I am quite happy with spending my money on my 1960s fascination and unfortunately neither have time or spare cash to deviate to my Midland desire.