Dapol 4mm Scale Terrier

[Edwardian]

Given that Hornby could put the existing Terrier into the cheaper range and undercut any new model, the trick would be for another manufacturer to not talk about planning a new model but just get it to market. That way they would be around a year ahead of whatever production Hornby could schedule thus ensuring the sales to recoup their tooling investment. 

 

If a Terrier appears I will presume that sound business sense would mean we would get to know about it as it is about ready to be shipped to the shops. 

 

I agree, but a topic to foster interest is no bad thing.

 

 

Fenchurch?

 

Mornington Crescent

[sem34090]

Stepney!

The Stroudley Variation...

[47606odin]

well, i have a OO terrier, which was one of the first OO released in the GWR button livery way back when by Dapol

 

i had started to modify the shell to ex IOW it, but Dapol bought out the O gauge version, so i have abandoned my Terrier, in pieces, and have a nice collection of 4 O gauge ones.

 

However, should decent new versions come out in OO, then i would snaffle them up. I love Terriers

[locoholic]

The situation facing a new tooling Terrier would be the same as the DJ J94 versus the old Dapol/Hornby one, except that trying to tool for all the variations in the Terriers would be a nightmare.

 

I wonder if DJ has found the J94 to be profitable?

[Anglian]

The situation facing a new tooling Terrier would be the same as the DJ J94 versus the old Dapol/Hornby one, except that trying to tool for all the variations in the Terriers would be a nightmare.

 

I wonder if DJ has found the J94 to be profitable?

 

 

Is it that much worse than that faced by Hattons and their P Class or is it rather more complex? That Bachmann is making H1 and H2 Atlantics indicates that manufactures are prepared to take on differences within a type and I think there were only five H1 built. La France is a unique model in that it was the only H1 fitted with the the larger cylinders that the H2 used, so Bachmann can't even release another accurate H1, unless they do the renamed La France of course in Southern livery, which I actually think they will do at some point.

 

Back to Terriers – if they do a series of new models, up to the standard of their recent SECR H Class, they will sell tons of them even if there are already lots in the second hand market. It'll be a gorgeous little gem of a model and hard to resist. 

Edited January 15, 2018 by Anglian

[The Johnster]

I approve of the idea of Dapol making any of their 0 gauge stuff available in 00, as it might lead eventually to them making a diagram N auto trailer for me in this size...

 

BR crimson or late GW livery please!

Edited January 15, 2018 by The Johnster

[Les1952]

There are too many Terriers out there for anyone other than Hornby to make a profit out of them- UNLESS

 

... it is crowdfunded and initially a comparatively small run.

 

The current Terrier owes Hornby nothing as far as tooling costs are concerned.  Therefore it can be churned out at a relatively low cost as a spoiler to any new model - think of the J94s that have appeared since Dave Jones announced his.   

 

Don't forget the first job of any company is to make MONEY.  Everything else is subsidiary to that.  The investors and the stock market demand that.  Whatever loco we want (a Peppercorn K1 in N would do me fine....) we need to think about whether releasing it would hasten the demise of the manufacturer.

 

If Dapol DO revisit the Terrier in OO (and I can't really see it happening) I predict two things-

 

1.  We won't know anything about it until it is at 1st EP or even decorative stage- this is so that there is a fighting chance of getting it to market before any spoilers.

2.  There will be a couple of cheap (ish) Hornby Terriers timed just ahead of the release if at all possible.

 

In the meantime, gents, there isn't any point in speculating, other than frothing for fun.

 

Les

 

As a thought, wouldn't an ex-SECR R/R1 0-6-0T be a more likely seller in the current climate?

Edited January 15, 2018 by Les1952

[The Black Hat]

Great... yet another anti Southern / Southern region tirade

 

You have the audacity to tediously and tiresomely complain on every thread that is not about your own sphere of interest

 

Meanwhile other members are getting equally as fed up with continued and repetitive, unfunny jibes at SR locos and their supposed and often unfounded performance statements, To be honest I don't think it is others whom are on another planet...

 

I think it is you that needs a wake up call to campaign for your interests, which you have a complete right to do, in a sensible and productive manor with others that share your interests rather than alienate everyone else..

 

Nicely done....

 

 But it seems you missed my point. I was not saying that this model shouldn't be made. If the market is there and it seems there is then it could quite probably be a good idea for any company. 

 

My point was more at the comments in the thread. People were picking and choosing which company they would rather make. Some slag off Hornby, diss Oxfords models, or are critical of Dapol. While we all might express a preference for one company and have favourites, some areas of the market would be more than thankful if a model was released for our area. Just look at how happy people were to see Q6 arrive, or the J36 for those with a Scottish interest. All that from just ONE model for an area. The Southern region have had release after release come their way, and throughout all the statements put on a forum like this, when have you ever seen people really genuinely admit that they have models in bountiful supply. 

 

I mentioned an engine I'd be happy to see made, but Scotland the North East Region and some areas and era's of the more modern periods remain thin on the total number of engines released for them. If one model is released we are happy and normally wait ages for another to follow, despite evidence like wishlist polls, comments and interest matching that of other engines that are chosen and made. 

 

I hope you get your new Terrier. Its a nice engine, quaint, got a decent bark, actually a nice bit of kit. I just find it interesting that for one region people even have a preference on who makes an engine, when some areas would be glad it was just actually made. 

 

Still, maybe that's hard to see, when a region gets everything it wants and doesn't see that its actually everyone else that is alienated. 

Edited January 15, 2018 by The Black Hat

[sem34090]

First: I've opened a new thread in the Hornby section for the discussion of NER RTR models!

 

Second: It's not just Southern modellers picking apart the manufacturers. I only suggested Dapol because they have the CAD part-there already with their O scale model, and would be glad if anyone were to make a new terrier!

 

I support your cause, but no need to insult us Southern modellers to get what you want! I agree that there are plenty of models around for the Southern, and I feel especially lucky as a pre-grouping SR modeller. I am suprised at the lack of Scottish and NER pre-grouping goods locos, as a lot of them lasted up until the very end of steam, certainly 1967, if not 1968.

[The Black Hat]

First: I've opened a new thread in the Hornby section for the discussion of NER RTR models!

 

Second: It's not just Southern modellers picking apart the manufacturers. I only suggested Dapol because they have the CAD part-there already with their O scale model, and would be glad if anyone were to make a new terrier!

 

I support your cause, but no need to insult us Southern modellers to get what you want! I agree that there are plenty of models around for the Southern, and I feel especially lucky as a pre-grouping SR modeller. I am suprised at the lack of Scottish and NER pre-grouping goods locos, as a lot of them lasted up until the very end of steam, certainly 1967, if not 1968.

 

First: Ta bud. 

 

Second: Im not having a go at that - your logic is sound and makes perfect sense to me. Like I said if people want it then great and I've no doubt a new Terrier wont be long coming... 

[Guest theonlydt]

Nicely done....

 

 But it seems you missed my point. I was not saying that this model shouldn't be made. If the market is there and it seems there is then it could quite probably be a good idea for any company. 

 

My point was more at the comments in the thread. People were picking and choosing which company they would rather make. Some slag off Hornby, diss Oxfords models, or are critical of Dapol. While we all might express a preference for one company and have favourites, some areas of the market would be more than thankful if a model was released for our area. Just look at how happy people were to see Q6 arrive, or the J36 for those with a Scottish interest. All that from just ONE model for an area. The Southern region have had release after release come their way, and throughout all the statements put on a forum like this, when have you ever seen people really genuinely admit that they have models in bountiful supply. 

 

I mentioned an engine I'd be happy to see made, but Scotland the North East Region and some areas and era's of the more modern periods remain thin on the total number of engines released for them. If one model is released we are happy and normally wait ages for another to follow, despite evidence like wishlist polls, comments and interest matching that of other engines that are chosen and made. 

 

I hope you get your new Terrier. Its a nice engine, quaint, got a decent bark, actually a nice bit of kit. I just find it interesting that for one region people even have a preference on who makes an engine, when some areas would be glad it was just actually made. 

 

Still, maybe that's hard to see, when a region gets everything it wants and doesn't see that its actually everyone else that is alienated. 

 

Your point was pointless. The moderator even chimed in. You went on a completely uncalled for tirade, were called on it, and now you're back-pedaling and trying to seem reasonable. 

[sem34090]

As much as I disagree with Dave insulting all us Southern modellers (though agree with his cause!) I also disagree with others trying to continue an arguement! Dave has stated his point in not-so-eloquent terms, and by having someone not ague back has been able to reiterate it without fear of not being listened to. Let's be honest, until Dave started invading every bit of the forum and insulting us Southern modellers, the plight of NER modellers wasn't as recognised! Not saying it's good to cause arguement though, so, I say to both sides here, call a truce, and if you wish to discuss a new 00 terrier, by Dapol or otherwise, then stay here. If you want to discuss the lack (Bar the Q6!) of NER locos, please see my new thread, and if you want neither then I suggest you find another thread which covers what you want, or start your own!

[Guest theonlydt]

, and if you wish to discuss a new 00 terrier, by Dapol or otherwise, then stay here. 

 

I want to see a new 00 Terrier running over a wobbly bridge built from rotten toothpicks and lollipop sticks, stuck into sand that liquefies a couple of times a day. Bring back British branchlines

 

Seriously though, it's a popular model, just out-dated and too inaccurate for the current demands from modelers. 

 

A 2018 Hornby J94 is listed at 95 pounds - I'm certain they'll continue to try and milk the terrier at those prices until they no longer can. It should be a railroad model, but they've not been forced to move it there yet. Given that few people are going to own more than a handful of Terriers, and most only one or two (?) a hundred quid or so for a new model wouldn't be outrageous. Same as the DJM 14xx.

If we're all willing to pay good money for our models, maybe ALL our dreams will come true in every region. Despite mostly being an SR fan, I desperately want an L&YR Class 25.

[Sam Moss]

Hornby removed the spring on the centre axle on the last runs. Not sure I would call it an improvement though. Their first runs did show slightly better assembly QC over the Dapol variants.

 

I wonder if they have intentionally removed it or the factory simply forgot to fit it! From memory, as its been a while since I've had one of these on the workbench, its just a flat strip of metal bearing on the middle axle isn't it? Held in place with a self tapper. Very similar to the Dapol/Hornby J94.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Sam Moss

[PaulRhB]

Southern models seem to sell well and there are the Terriers and P's that are well known celebrities due to the early preservation liveries.

With the release of multiple new versions of Gresley Pacific, by three manufacturers or five if you count N and O too, and other celebrity NE region locos, Atlantic and Stirling Single its difficult to say they are ignored. But maybe the manufacturers research suggests it's the big glamour locos that sell well? Another go at the J72 and several of the 0-6-0 tender locos are recent models too.

So don't moan about what's produced look at why and look for models that fit that criteria and post interesting topics about them to enthuse others

Demand for 009 and slow encouragment has lead to four manufacturers jumping in in the last four years.

When I was a kid we had the E1, Schools and BoB from Hornby for Southern with the Bachmann Nelson and Dapol terrier only arriving in my teens compared to at least double that number of NE prototypes. My Mainline J72 still runs on my fathers layout nearly 40 years later

There's far too much negativity rather than creative critique, I've been moaned at for trying to find solutions with rtr models in here but I've had positive feedback from manufacturers as a result.

 

How do they say it everywhere?

 

DON'T PANIC

Stop moaning and do something positive!

 

[Les1952]

As a modeller with a small shunting plank definitely set in County Durham (for those South of the Thames, North Durham is further from Scotland than London is from Brighton) I would be up for a decent DCC-fitted Terrier in LBSCR colours.  That would be able to shunt my colliery alongside my Class P when it arrives, my B4 when it arrives, my IOW O2,  my Beattie Well Tank, and my forthcoming 1361 class......

 

The above are just my interlopers from way dahn sarf...

 

I do hope modellers of a more Southerly disposition would find room for a J72.

 

 

Just a thought

Les

currently living just over a quarter of the way from Kings Cross to Edinburgh - in Nottinghamshire.

[sem34090]

For my colliery layout I would be in the market for a Taff Vale O1, both in NCB guise and original Lined TVR livery!

 

I got myself a TVR U1 on Saturday to finish in Lined TVR black to help run my colliery layout in a pre-grouping guise!

 

Anyway, enough about NER, TVR or any other locos: the NER now has its own thread in the Hornby forum: back to terriers please!

[Jack P]

I have one terrier. If one with a better chassis was produced I’d get at least one. 

Wouldn't stop me buying a retooled one though. Doubt I'd ditch the old ones, but would buy a retool to match them.

 

I think this is the crux, or it's the point I would try to focus on if I was a manufacturer, is that people will probably just add to their collection, the difference would be as chalk and cheese as it gets. Some people might, in the pursuit of accuracy (or whatever) replace all of their terriers, many others will (probably) hold onto them, and buy a re-tooled one. I'm surprised no-one has drawn a comparison to the new Lord Nelson. While I wait and hope they release a Malachite Version, I'm not going to move on my Bachmann one. 

 

I don't own a terrier yet, and If I was to buy one, it would be with the intention of heavily upgrading/modifying it, and as such the price I would be willing to pay for the base model would reflect that. I would happily sit on my hands and wait for a new one to be tooled up, as after you factor in etched chassis, wheels, gearbox, motor, small detailing parts, time and effort; £99 As with the P class, would probably be worth it in my eyes.

 

Plus, as has been mentioned, the amount of versions available to produce, either through livery, or detail differences show that surely you could cater to many different audiences with not much more effort.

 

 

As a thought, wouldn't an ex-SECR R/R1 0-6-0T be a more likely seller in the current climate?

 

 

Why not both? 

Edited January 19, 2018 by Jack P

[G-BOAF]

I really don't see why the Hornby/Ex Dapol model is posing a threat. It was a good model for its time (I love my Stepney model, and after some initial adjustments, it has always been one of my smoothest slow speed models). However it does not compare to the latest small models out there including the BWT and future Hattons P and Bachmann J72. There are just too many compromises on the old model including the sandboxes (both types on one model) and boiler length (one only).

A modern tooling would be just that, and with the right combination of slides would be a very effective model of a celebrity class with a service history of 1872 to present, pre-grouping, SR, GWR, BR, Industrial, IOW, Overseas (Waddon, Brighton)... one of the ultimate locos for scope and time periods. Every home should have at least one!

 

The problem is that the Dapol 00 model was very good, and is arguably too good for railroad, even if it is showing its age in the main Hornby range... The real answer of commercial de-risking would be for Hornby to scan Stepney or Fenchurch on their next visit to the Bluebell, and develop a new model (and maybe pay for a repaint of Fenchurch as part of the launch event :-p).

[Edwardian]

I agree.  It is a chalk and cheese comparison between the old Dapol/Hornby model and potential modern spec model accurately representing the A1 and A1X types.

 

My experience is that many people will buy any old junk if it's nicely tampo-printed, but a good many people will also buy an accurate quality product that also has a nice tampo-printed livery. 

 

Manufacturers should not fear producing updated models.  Hornby has replaced several models with new tooling over the years, Bachmann is re-visiting the Mainline J72, Dapol is to make a GW Mogul.

 

After all, lots of people have rushed to buy the Oxford Rail Dean Goods!

[GWR8700]

Hornby did say they were looking at LBSCR drawings?  Could this be it?  Definitely possible.

[GreenGiraffe22]

Yes please to new Terriers, my limited edition wartime black one is a BR tooling >.< would love an accurate rtr one!

[sem34090]

BR tooling? I think yours has a BR smokebox door numberplate, but the trouble is the tooling cannot represent any terrier at ant stage in its life, being the strange hybrid it is. I own four, wouldn't want to sell them, but would buy at least one new one! Currently trying to find both built and unbuilt kits for them on ebay, so I can have an accurate class A1 for my LBSCR Layout, and an accurate A1x on my proposed BR(S) Layout (Don't Tell J. Edwardian (Jedwardian?) I said that last bit!)

[PatB]

I'm really not sure that the "everyone owns an old one so a new one won't sell" argument flies. If it did we'd still be stuck with Dublo A4s and Triang 31s .

[chris45lsw]

I'm really not sure that the "everyone owns an old one so a new one won't sell" argument flies. If it did we'd still be stuck with Dublo A4s and Triang 31s .

I've got four and I'd still replace them with a better model.  Indeed if enough variations were offered I'd easily take six!  It's only the inadequacy of the current model that has restrained me.

 

Chris KT