Automated Uncouplers .

[pctrainman]

Hi , I have a Lenz LZV 100 based system in N which uses TC Gold 9 for automation , the layout has 2 Seep Electromagnetic uncouplers in the sidings powered by a dedicated 18 volt DC regulated PSU , the layout is 99% complete with just TC requiring fine tuning , I want to control the 2 seeps via TC but am unsure of the best route to take to integrate the Seeps into TC ie what would be the best way to interface the Seeps with TC and also how should I set up TC to handle the task ?.

[john dew]

I assume you have accessory decoders for your turnouts?

 

If so connect the seep uncouplers to a decoder and allocate a unique number to each

 

Set up a TC push button switch (A) for each uncoupler and using the connection tab enter the decoder number........I can't recall if you can set up pulse mode direct from those properties

 

If not you should set up a second pushbutton (B) and in the operation tab :

 

Activate switch A in pulse mode

 

Turn off switch B

 

 

There may well be a more elegant solution but the above will work

 

HTH

 

Regards

[pctrainman]

Hi John , thank you for the reply , I do indeed use Accessory decoders for my code 55 points and Cobalt analogue PM's , I have 4 Lenz LS 100's but all are fully used , do you know if the cheaper LS 150 would do the job ? thank you for the TC info as it will give me a good starting point to achieve what I need , TC and myself are still getting to know each other and i've got a hell of a lot to learn .

[john dew]

Glad to be of help.

 

I am not familiar with the LS 100 but I do use a number of LS150s. I am sure that they would handle the Seep uncouplers.

 

However I have a suggestion. I believe Cobalt Analog decoders are "stall motors" like the Tortoise that I use? The LS150  (and I assume the LS 100) were designed for solenoid turnout motors not stall motors......they work but that is why you have to modify them with resistors. With Train Controller they can cause problems as they process commands in sequence rather than simultaneously. In other words Tortoise has to complete its slow zzzzzzz throwing the blade before processing  the command for the next turnout. So if you start a schedule and the first 2-3 points are on the same LS100 there is a high probability that the train will pass over the turnout in mid throw!

 

It got so bad I rewired some of the turnouts so didnt have too many adjacent turnouts on the same decoder.......even that wasnt enough so I bought an NCE Switch 8 (?) designed for stall motors and put the eight most used turnouts on that......worked a treat......they throw simutaneously.

 

If you have to buy an additional decoder rather than buy a LS150 I would consider the latest version of the NCE Switch 8......similar price to the LS150 I recall. Move some of your turnouts to the switch 8 and hook up the uncouplers to the now vacant slots on the LS 100

 

Just a suggestion

 

Cheers

 

John

[NIK]

Hi , I have a Lenz LZV 100 based system in N which uses TC Gold 9 for automation , the layout has 2 Seep Electromagnetic uncouplers in the sidings powered by a dedicated 18 volt DC regulated PSU , the layout is 99% complete with just TC requiring fine tuning , I want to control the 2 seeps via TC but am unsure of the best route to take to integrate the Seeps into TC ie what would be the best way to interface the Seeps with TC and also how should I set up TC to handle the task ?.

 

Hi,

 

It depends how much power the uncouplers take, how long they have to be on for and what voltage the appropriate accessory decoder is designed for.

 

If for example the uncoupler needs to be on for three seconds the accessory decoder has to be capable of producing an output for three seconds or you could write a short macro in TC to turn the output off after 3 seconds.

 

If the uncoupler needs more than a quick pulse like a solenoid point motor you need an accessory decoder that can do long pulses or have a continuous output - but pulses are better as computers and TC can lock up - I've crashed TC before.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

Edited January 14, 2018 by NIK

[pctrainman]

As usual a problem seemingly solved turns out to throw up another problem ( possibly ) , my LS 100's use the Lenz LA010 3 wire to 2 wire adaptors so everything is ok there , I have looked at the switch 8 and it states " not for Cobalt" so I don't think I can use it with my system , but having said that I don't envisage too many problems caused by the Lenz sequential addressing as the use of the various points on my layout will not be very heavy ie it has inner and outer loops connected by a scissors crossing with the inner loop connected to 6 sidings via a double slip a 3 way asymetric and 1 left hand turnout and there is also a branch line connected to the inner loop and which also acts as the entrance path to the sidings , the sidings will be worked ( low useage) by 2 shunters ( Jinty and 08 ) but neither of these will leave the sidings so the only point changes will be by a 4MT which will make very infrequent visits to a coaling tower within the sidings from it's point of origin ( a loco maintenance shed ) located in a further 2 track siding ,it will stop and pick up coal and then return to the maintenance shed and then repeat after a set time ,point changes will be kept to a minimum so i'm hoping the LS100's will cope ..I should perhaps mention at this point that I use Railcom with 2 X 16 zone ( blocks) DCC4PC railcom reader boards acting as occupancy detectors and also passing railcom info to TC via the Tams RC interface .I should perhaps add that the scissors will most likely end up almost redundant as at the moment i'm not planning on switching locos from one loop to another ie they will stay on either the inner or outer loop with the only complication being in the form of 2 DMU's which will operate shuttles between the branchline station and the mainline stations number 3 platform which is the track that also leads into the group of 6 sidings.The Seeps require 18 volts DC and the max input on an LS150 is 16 volts AC  so it would appear to be unsuitable , what I appear to need is a 2 output accesory decoder that can handle 18 volts DC and also give an estimated 2-3 second pulse , do either of you have any ideas there ?.
 

[NIK]

As usual a problem seemingly solved turns out to throw up another problem ( possibly ) , my LS 100's use the Lenz LA010 3 wire to 2 wire adaptors so everything is ok there , I have looked at the switch 8 and it states " not for Cobalt" so I don't think I can use it with my system , but having said that I don't envisage too many problems caused by the Lenz sequential addressing as the use of the various points on my layout will not be very heavy ie it has inner and outer loops connected by a scissors crossing with the inner loop connected to 6 sidings via a double slip a 3 way asymetric and 1 left hand turnout and there is also a branch line connected to the inner loop and which also acts as the entrance path to the sidings , the sidings will be worked ( low useage) by 2 shunters ( Jinty and 08 ) but neither of these will leave the sidings so the only point changes will be by a 4MT which will make very infrequent visits to a coaling tower within the sidings from it's point of origin ( a loco maintenance shed ) located in a further 2 track siding ,it will stop and pick up coal and then return to the maintenance shed and then repeat after a set time ,point changes will be kept to a minimum so i'm hoping the LS100's will cope ..I should perhaps mention at this point that I use Railcom with 2 X 16 zone ( blocks) DCC4PC railcom reader boards acting as occupancy detectors and also passing railcom info to TC via the Tams RC interface .I should perhaps add that the scissors will most likely end up almost redundant as at the moment i'm not planning on switching locos from one loop to another ie they will stay on either the inner or outer loop with the only complication being in the form of 2 DMU's which will operate shuttles between the branchline station and the mainline stations number 3 platform which is the track that also leads into the group of 6 sidings.The Seeps require 18 volts DC and the max input on an LS150 is 16 volts AC  so it would appear to be unsuitable , what I appear to need is a 2 output accesory decoder that can handle 18 volts DC and also give an estimated 2-3 second pulse , do either of you have any ideas there ?.

 

 

Hi I can't look for an accessory decoder until the current drawn by the uncoupler when supplied with 18V DC is known.

 

Have you got a multimeter that will go up to 10 amps - if so you could do a test - you want to look for the highest current when the uncoupler is powered - it will heat up eventually and the current may fall.

 

Regards

 

Nick

[pctrainman]

Hi Nick , I was starting to think my multimeter must be faulty ( I had it set in the 2 Amp range)  when I found a Post from a Guy who had done what I want to do and he stated that the Seep uncouplers only draw a few Milliamps at most but do work best with 18-20 volts DC , unfortunately he did not say what accessory decoder he was using but at a few Milliamps i'm guessing that anything that can handle 18 Volts DC should do the trick , do you know of anything that can handle 18 volts DC input ?.oh and btw the uncouplers will never be used both at the same time .

[john dew]

Hi

 

Sorry about the red herring with the conflict between TC and stall motors linked to Lenz decoders! I did hesitate before mentioning it.

 

DCC Concepts sell a two unit solenoid decoder   https://www.dccconcepts.com/manual/owners-manual-ads-2fx-solenoid-accessory-decoder/ which I use for retrofit turnouts.......they work fine with me.....why not check with them if they are ok with 18 volts DC?

 

Regards

 

John

[NIK]

Hi , I have a Lenz LZV 100 based system in N which uses TC Gold 9 for automation , the layout has 2 Seep Electromagnetic uncouplers in the sidings powered by a dedicated 18 volt DC regulated PSU , the layout is 99% complete with just TC requiring fine tuning , I want to control the 2 seeps via TC but am unsure of the best route to take to integrate the Seeps into TC ie what would be the best way to interface the Seeps with TC and also how should I set up TC to handle the task ?.

 

Hi, 

 

According to Kernow Model Centre website the Seep EM1 uncoupler draws up to 1.5 Amps. Are your uncouplers EM1?

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

[pctrainman]

Hi , I now have an accurate measurement of the current draw , it is peaking at 086 Amps with the multimeter set in the 200M range , i'll fire off an email to DCC concepts and see what they say , as soon as I know I promise to report back , oh and Nick don't worry about what you describe as a red herring , I was hazily aware that the LS 100's sequential addressing had been known to cause problems on layouts with lots of point changes but i'm fairly confident that my low usage means that i'll hopefully not encounter that problem .

[pctrainman]

I thought as I found a phone number for DCC concepts I would give them a bell , a very helpful guy I spoke to was familiar with the Uncouplers and told me that their unit would handle them and 18 Volts easily , so that's the way i'm going to go , thank you all for your help , it is much appreciated .

[pctrainman]

I'm afraid I have to resurrect this thread , on doing a lot of research I now realise that the solution I was going to take is unsuitable for my needs as the DCC concepts decoder is not programmable to give an extended pulse , I need the uncouplers to be energised for around 3 seconds and I can do that via 2 spare outputs on a Lenz LS100 that at present only operates a double slip .My thinking is that I can use the LS100's 12 volt output to fire the uncouplers for the 3 seconds needed via a relay which is supplied with 18 volts DC and the 12 volts from the LS 100 as the signal and  hence supply 18 volts to the uncouplers . I read somewhere that a Diode should be used to guard against EMF from the uncoupler but have no idea as to where the Diode should be inserted in the Wiring ie would it for instance be on one of the (2) 12 volt wires from the LS 100 ( one for each output) and which way around should it go ? , and lastly can anyone recommend a suitable relay that can handle at least 2 Amps ?.

[Gordon A]

For relays switching 2 amps look at Maplins or under the general heading of automobile relays.

I believe Mega Points have released a simple relay board with four relays- not yet on their website, so may be worth a call.

 

 

Gordon A

[pctrainman]

Thanks Gordon , your comment led me to looking on ebay and I found quite a few relays that may be suitable but one type in particular drew my interest , these are described as Opto Isolated and are mainly intended for use with Arduinos.I have found a dual outlet one that can handle the LS100's 12 volt output and also the 18 volts from the uncouplers PSU and it also has diodes on board .My knowledge of electronics and Arduinos is very limited but I think that it may be possile to send the LS100's output signal to 2 of the 4 pins intended for arduino connection ( but I don't know which 2) and connect the uncouplers red and black wires to the screw terminals, but as there are 3 screw teminals i'm unsure how to wire it for 2 wires .https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-Channel-Relay-Board-Module-Opto-isolated-for-Raspberry-Pi-PIC-ARM-Arduino/142632246165?hash=item21358b5b95:g:JS8AAOSwmphaO9bk