Hornby Black5 THE Sound version lack of traction

[Paul-H]

Hi all

 

Anyone got the TTS sound version of the Black 5, what's yours like

 

Mine is my only Hornby Steam loco, all my others are Bachmann as are my Diesels, on our club layout tonight which is quite large and flat, I was giving them all a good run as i donr have a 00 layout at home and was pulling a rake of 5 mk1 coaches of various vintage and everything I have pulled them without issue from my 0-6-0 tank through Ivatt 2 tank standard 3 tank standard 4 tender, class 08, 20, 25 and 37 Diesel all pulled them around without a hitch, but then came my nice new Black 5 and it just sat there spinning it's wheels.

 

Anyone else got this loco and notice a lack of traction, or suggest a way of improving mine, as it defeats the object of running a Black 5 if it can only pull a couple of coaches.

 

Thanks

 

Paul

[RAF96]

Check that either the front truck or the drawbar isn’t taking weight off the drivers.

 

I had a B1 where the tender was lifting the back drivers enough to make the loco slip on a gentle slope and that was without coaches on the hook. A gentle tweak of the drawbar got it sorted.

 

Rob

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

And that the tender pick ups aren't acting as brakes. Some Hornby tenders go 'no roll'; first time I saw this was a Hornby 8F which could barely move itself, stalled completely when coupled onto a modest train.

[Paul-H]

Thanks for the replies guys

 

Checked all of those options and all is in order, tender wheels are nice and free and the coupling bar is all aligned correctly

 

It just seems as if the Loco itself is too light as the slightest pressure to the front when its moving stops it rolling as there is zero traction between the wheels and rails

 

Paul

[Ian Hargrave]

I hate to advise this but consider a return for replacement.

[Paul-H]

Unfortunately it was bought from an eBay seller buy the missus as a Christmas present and it's passed their return date which is only 14 days.

 

Going to replace it with the Bachmann version which I am sure will have no issues with the 5 coaches, given that all my other locos are Bachmann and all pull them without breaking sweat

 

Now should I pull the sound decoder out for the Bachmann and sell the Hornby cheap or sell the Hornby and get another Zimo for the Bachmann, I suspect another Zimo will be on order soon.

 

Anyone want to pay good money for a Mint Hornby that can't pull the skin off a rice pudding

 

Paul

[melmerby]

Going to replace it with the Bachmann version which I am sure will have no issues with the 5 coaches,

 

Paul

Bachmann Black 5?

I must have missed that one.

 

Keith

 

BTW I have a non-sound Hornby Black Five and it's a strong performer.

Edited January 16, 2018 by melmerby

[Black 5 Bear]

Unfortunately it was bought from an eBay seller buy the missus as a Christmas present and it's passed their return date which is only 14 days.

Going to replace it with the Bachmann version which I am sure will have no issues with the 5 coaches, given that all my other locos are Bachmann and all pull them without breaking sweat

Now should I pull the sound decoder out for the Bachmann and sell the Hornby cheap or sell the Hornby and get another Zimo for the Bachmann, I suspect another Zimo will be on order soon.

Anyone want to pay good money for a Mint Hornby that can't pull the skin off a rice pudding

Paul

If you paid for the loco via PayPal, you still have recourse against the seller for up to 6 months from date of purchase.

[MikeParkin65]

Unfortunately it was bought from an eBay seller buy the missus as a Christmas present and it's passed their return date which is only 14 days.

 

Going to replace it with the Bachmann version which I am sure will have no issues with the 5 coaches, given that all my other locos are Bachmann and all pull them without breaking sweat

 

Now should I pull the sound decoder out for the Bachmann and sell the Hornby cheap or sell the Hornby and get another Zimo for the Bachmann, I suspect another Zimo will be on order soon.

 

Anyone want to pay good money for a Mint Hornby that can't pull the skin off a rice pudding

 

Paul

Zimo or Loksound every time if you can afford it - TTS for steam is a waste of time in my humble opinion. 

[Britanniabuilder]

I have a TTS Black Five (also a Christmas present from my wife) and it normally pulls a rake of 4 Hornby BR Mk1 coaches without any problems. I've just tried it with all 7 of my BR Mk1 coaches and it was OK, but did slip once under acceleration. With 6 it was fine, careering around at a scale 80mph. I do have DIY-fitted lighting in all my coaches, so there's some extra friction from the bogie pickups. The weight of the loco seems to me to be comparable with other similar Hornby locos.

 

Are you sure that it's slipping rather than lacking power? I did have a problem with my TTS Class 31 which wouldn't go over about scale 40mph with 4 coaches and which I thought was slipping, but I changed the motor algorithm CVs (having previously fiddled with them, so probably my fault) and it now goes like a rocket.

 

Regards, John

[Fireline]

If you can, try writing a value of 1 to CV 150, and try again. It might accelerate a touch quicker, though, so be warned!

[40F]

Interesting thought to replace the Hornby Black 5 with the Bachmann one, considering Bachmann do not make a Black 5 

[Black 5 Bear]

The Bachmann Standard 5 is a reasonable model but will not have sound for the discounted (latest release price) £145. Unless things have changed, this model had poor haulage capacity.

The Hornby Black 5 with sound can be purchased discounted for about £150 and is still excellent model considering it dates from 2001/2.

Personally, I would stick with Hornby and get this sorted.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Black 5 Bear

[Paul-H]

Yes I meant the Bachmann 5MT which to be honest is also what Hornby call their Black 5 as well

 

Its not a lack of power as it just sits there spinning its wheel from a very low speed setting, its ok with fewer coaches or wagons but not a patch on the Bachmann Locos I have compared it to, Ivatt 2 Tank, Standard Class 3 Tank, Standard Class 4 Tender, O-6-0 Tank and class 08 Diesel all have no issue pulling the 5 mk1 Coaches.

 

Paul

[Silver Sidelines]

Just to reinforce the advice already given - put the locomotive on a dead flat surface - kitchen counter or better still glass plate. See if you can push the front wheels down. If so you need to look at the way the front bogie is attached - likely something will need fine adjustment, i.e. bending to a better shape. Unscrewing the front bogie is also a good test.

 

Good luck

 

Ray

Edited January 16, 2018 by Silver Sidelines

[melmerby]

Yes I meant the Bachmann 5MT which to be honest is also what Hornby call their Black 5 as well

 

 

 

Paul

The distinction is the LMS loco is a Stanier Class 5P5F, later just Class 5, known commonly as a "Black 5"

The Bachmann 5MT is a BR Standard which AFAIK has never been referred to as a "Black 5"

Both were rated as 5MT under BR

 

Keith

[STRAT'71]

Try adding some weight to the loco. How heavy does it feel compared to your Bachmann locos?

[Georgeconna]

My baccy standard 5 is a beaut, pulls 7 Maunsells easily, have a sound decoder fitted from south west digital which is probably the best sounding steam one I have heard. My Hornby black 5 also has good pulling qualities but it is not be tts version.

[Ian Hargrave]

My baccy standard 5 is a beaut, pulls 7 Maunsells easily, have a sound decoder fitted from south west digital which is probably the best sounding steam one I have heard. My Hornby black 5 also has good pulling qualities but it is not be tts version.

 

 

I think it's a case of some have good haulage capacity and some don't.The earliest versions did not...particularly with Bachmann Mk 1 stock. But then,they weren't particularly free running in any case.

[Wickham Green]

The distinction is the LMS loco is a Stanier Class 5P5F, later just Class 5, known commonly as a "Black 5"

The Bachmann 5MT is a BR Standard which AFAIK has never been referred to as a "Black 5"

Both were rated as 5MT under BR

 

Keith

Got me confused yonks ago when I saw an advert for the Graham Farish "Class V" and thought it was going to be a Southern 'Schools' ........... hmmmm ......................

[Paul-H]

So I got the Bachmann 5MT and fitted a Zimo Sound decoder and took it to my club tonight to test it against the Hornby Black 5

 

Again the Hornby failed to pull 5 coaches, it also failed to pull 4 coaches and then finally pulled3 coaches.

 

The Bachmann pull 5 coaches, then 6 coaches and even managed 7 coaches with a little slippage on the up hill section.

 

Paul

[Corbs]

Just stumbled across this thread as we've been having similar issues with the Hornby Black 5. I think the problem is it is just not heavy enough, we've added lead weight to the body as much as possible but it still spins up a lot. Thinking about trying some 'bullfrog snot' - liquid traction tyres.

[Thunderforge]

Is there a way to measure the individual axle load? I mean, I don’t know how to, but there’s a gadget out there for just about everything. It might be useful information.

Has Hornby taken out a weight to fit the dcc gubbins?

What’s the total weight of your loco and perhaps someone here can weight a dc version of the same loco and you can compare?

(I’d like to help but alas the only Black 5 I own is a static plastic model from a magazine, which the kids have ‘improved’ by removing the buffers. And the front bogey. Oh and the cab. But if anyone needs a boiler it’s right there, somewhere behind the sofa.)

[melmerby]

Are we talking about a Hornby Stanier Class 5 (Black 5) or are we talking about a BR Standard?

This thread has swerved around somewhat

 

Are we referring to one of these?

 

 

Or something else?

 

Keith

 

EDIT my Black 5 has about 222gms on the drivers in total.

Edited July 15, 2018 by melmerby

[Corbs]

Sorry, should clarify ours is in fact the DC version of the Stanier Black 5 with the blanking plug instead of a DCC chip.

 

On the scales we've got the overall weight up to 279 grams using the lead sheet, but what I haven't checked is if the bogie holds any weight, I assumed it did not as it feels 'loose' as if it is purely decorative.

 

A well as the smokebox now being filled with lead sheet, we have stuck some to the keeper plate underneath (photo shows first piece, there are now 3)

 

As well as these pieces which sit in the cab.

Edited July 15, 2018 by Corbs