RMweb Gold Regularity Posted January 14, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) Not enough mustard, that’s what it is. Edited January 14, 2018 by Regularity Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 14, 2018 Author Share Posted January 14, 2018 GET OUT OF MY THREAD, SIMON!!! Go back to wander the streets of Castle Aching until someone arrives to return you, ahem, 'home'. (Simon leaves, shouting 'Mustard, Mustard, Girrus All Yer Got!) He's like that sometimes, he can't help it, bless'm Carrying on, Will LBSCR Electrics ever make it to Paltry Circus? Or at least an LNWR Oerlikon? Kevin? Are you there Kevin? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) Paltry Circus does occasionally get visited by a nice tinplate 3-SUB, and there are tinplate LMS units around, as herehttps://thestationmastersrooms.co.uk/catalogue/product-details.aspx?id=J25270 , but I never, well hardly ever, collect LMS things. The pre-grouping livery of some of the coaches in the picture might allow its inclusion here. The electrician in me does worry slightly about your West London layout plan, in that I can’t imagine trains designed for all the various supply configurations (voltages: dc or ac; wire heights; con rail layouts etc) coping too well, but that is to allow reality to intrude too far. Edited January 14, 2018 by Nearholmer 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted January 14, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2018 Back on thread, I must admit to rather liking the Brighton electrics, but I wonder if that’s because I was born, weaned and bred on a diet of OLE, plus 08s and 25s ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Metropolitan H Posted January 14, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 14, 2018 A pre 1923 "Metropolitan" train has been seen at at Paltry Circus, but considering there are only three rails - rather than the necessary four - this was a bit of a surprise. Regards Chris H 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 14, 2018 Author Share Posted January 14, 2018 Oooo... pre-grouping Met, I can see it now: Station, Goods Yard, Metropolitan & DistricNO!!! NO, NO, NO!!! I really must finish the current projects within the next millenium! I wouldn't mix 3rd Rail and overhead on the same running lines. The equipment would be LSWR and LBSCR pattern respectively: anything else would be unusual, but that wouldn't stop me! Love the SUB, by the way Kevin! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastglosmog Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Well, if Volk's Electric is included, I will put in a mention of the Hythe Pier Railway, electrified in 1922 (3rd rail 250V DC) so just pre-grouping. Still going, doing what it has always done, carrying passengers up and down the pier to connect to the ferry. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted January 15, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) As someone born within buffer-clanging distance of the Harton Electric Railway at Westoe, I have a soft spot for electric railways. I often toy with the idea of the infrastructure not being dumped on the South Tyneside 3rd rail system but renewed and extended down the coast route to Boro and Darlo. Thus 4-CEP's on the fasts, and maybe 2-HAL's and 2 and 4 EPB's on stoppers, to Sunderland and points Boro-wards. Now, what would have replaced the Q6's and J27's....hmm, the displaced 71's? Oooh, plan brewing....catenary in the colliery exchange sidings.... Our house was just behind the row you can see the roof of behind 9. Sorry, not very pre-grouping other than the Westoe system! Edited January 15, 2018 by New Haven Neil 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 Indeed it is! Another one to add to the list, then, the HPR. I have been rather taken by the Harton system, but I personally prefer the looks of the NER locos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 Let's put some images to names then, shall we? Let's start with the LNWR: http://www.emus.co.uk/zone/lnwr/lnwr.htm http://cumbrianrailways.zenfolio.com/p97896241/h36F41570 Then LBSCR: http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/OtherRailways/BrightonElec.html http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/CP&CW.html And their next-door neighbour! The LSWR: http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/3car_SubUnits01.html http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/3car_SubUnits01.html L&YR: http://www.lyrs.org.uk/Electrification http://www.lyrs.org.uk/Electrification Mersey Railway: https://dewi.ca/trains/liverpoo/mersey.html https://dewi.ca/trains/liverpoo/mersey.html And, of course, the North Eastern! And how can one not start with either an ES1 or the EE1?! I opted for the latter! http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Darlington&objid=1997-7408_DAR_941 http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Darlington&objid=1997-7408_DAR_1245 That's the big ones covered: Time for bed! 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted January 16, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2018 The NER suburban stock shown are the second generation ones rather than the (to my eye) more elegant first generation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NER_electric_units#/media/File:North_Eastern_Railway_Parcels_Van.jpg 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 And the ideosyncratic Liverpool Overhead Railway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_Overhead_Railway 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) Well, this could get deeply out of hand if we attempt to catalogue all of the electrified railways in GB & NI before 1923, because there were oodles and oodles of them. And, it begs the age-old question of whether street tramways 'count' (surely they must, if pier railways do), which is particularly important in the case of electrified systems, because the technology went through a progression according to weight of vehicle propelled, as higher power systems became feasible, with no great differentiation between whether the vehicle ran on reserved track, or not. On piers, we must mention Ryde, because I'm pretty sure that was the first electrified pier railway in GB&NI. There was a very early electric pier railway at Brighton Beach, Coney Island USA, and I'd have to check whether that was a few months earlier than Ryde before declaring a World First. So, 34090, where do you wish to set the boundaries? Kevin PS: Do battery-electrics count, because things get even more complicated if they do!? Edited January 16, 2018 by Nearholmer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 16, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2018 And the ideosyncratic Liverpool Overhead Railway LOR 27 Seaforth Sands.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_Overhead_Railway One of the first if not the first electric railway designed as such. Some might mention the City and South London but that was initially intended to be cable hauled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohmisterporter Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Let's put some images to names then, shall we? Let's start with the LNWR: http://www.emus.co.uk/zone/lnwr/lnwr.htm http://cumbrianrailways.zenfolio.com/p97896241/h36F41570 Then LBSCR: http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/OtherRailways/BrightonElec.html http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/CP&CW.html And their next-door neighbour! The LSWR: http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/3car_SubUnits01.html http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/3car_SubUnits01.html L&YR: http://www.lyrs.org.uk/Electrification http://www.lyrs.org.uk/Electrification Mersey Railway: https://dewi.ca/trains/liverpoo/mersey.html https://dewi.ca/trains/liverpoo/mersey.html And, of course, the North Eastern! And how can one not start with either an ES1 or the EE1?! I opted for the latter! http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Darlington&objid=1997-7408_DAR_941 http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Darlington&objid=1997-7408_DAR_1245 That's the big ones covered: Time for bed! The second picture is at Lancaster Green Ayre on the Midland Railway Lancaster, Morecambe, Heysham system. Modelled in 0 gauge by Jamie of this parish. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 a midland electric at green ayre on the Morecambe line Jamies's 3 car midland set http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/2646-lancaster-green-ayre-now-moved-to-its-new-home/?p=2916998 http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/Midland/Morecambe.html 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffAlan Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 The reasons were dwindling coal stocks in south west Durham and as the whole system was 20 odd years old it was all ready for renewal and the technology was becoming obsolete even then. Still a shame though. Oh, to see an EE1 at the head of the Flying Scotsman... Yes, don't forget the LNER was always chronically short of cash too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 I'm glad Phil's mentioned the pioneering nature of the LOR. Elevated railways were a key part of Werner Siemens vision for electric traction, and he floated the idea at a conference in Paris nearly a decade before even the first practical non-battery electric train was exhibited in 1879. He had a very serious patent for the concept in place by c1880, detailed drawing and everything, but he couldn't get the idea off the ground (!) because people in Berlin objected on the basis that it would provide a view into bedroom windows, and in Paris people didn't want one ruining the nice new boulevards that they'd just had built. By the by, Siemens was thinking about automating these elevated railways, no driver or guard, and his engineers had tested the concept of regenerative braking by 1881. The importance of the LOR is too often overlooked. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Rixon Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 We should honour the Metropolitan Railway, as the first in the UK to operate a main line with electric locos. This was the very first of them. and there were nine more in that class, followed by 10 more dual cab versions (the flat ended ones that preceded the well-known Metro-Vic locos). Current enthusiasts call the first 10 "camelback" locos, but the contemporary term was "beetles". Radley Models do a kit for a beetle and I have one underway. It's a resin kit, so not much assembly is required. I've altered it with correct-size wheels and better buffers, and it's due to get a face full of rivets a la Archers. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 Give me a chance! It was late, so I decided to do the systems not generally considered to be 'Main Line' another time (I forgot both MR's though!). Now others have done it for me! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 a midland electric at green ayre on the Morecambe line 24067875_967610140059496_2609444912170132733_n.jpg Jamies's 3 car midland set http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/2646-lancaster-green-ayre-now-moved-to-its-new-home/?p=2916998 http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/Midland/Morecambe.html Bless you for eventually posting the Midland Heysham test project on this thread. This to me seemed the really visionary idea of the future for a prosperous mainline passenger and freight transportation undertaking in Britain. dh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 That and the LBSCR scheme, both having been started with a view to much longer distance traffic in the future, and both getting rather mangled by the fallout from the Grouping. If those two had played out in full, we could have had a.c. HV main-line electrification about forty years sooner than we did in Britain, but then the frequency would have turned out to be wrong in the long run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) We should honour the Metropolitan Railway, as the first in the UK to operate a main line with electric locos. This was the very first of them. and there were nine more in that class, followed by 10 more dual cab versions (the flat ended ones that preceded the well-known Metro-Vic locos). Current enthusiasts call the first 10 "camelback" locos, but the contemporary term was "beetles". Radley Models do a kit for a beetle and I have one underway. IMG_5274.jpg It's a resin kit, so not much assembly is required. I've altered it with correct-size wheels and better buffers, and it's due to get a face full of rivets a la Archers. The heavy ribbing is what put me off doing the Radley Metro-Vic but I guess it could be thinned down a bit. I ended up scratch building one (using Radley bogie side frames) and then a couple of years later the Heljan one was anounced......By the way good luck with the lining..... Edited January 16, 2018 by Jeff Smith 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 16, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2018 The LB&SC scheme fell victim to the anti-German fellings following WW1, most of the equipment was German designed if not German made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 They look good in tin. Ace trains 0 Gauge, inspired by c1912 Carette in Gauge 1, courtesy of Mr Holmes. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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