Veropin track construction

[unravelled]

In spite of the efforts of Peco, I am still considering building some elements of my trackwork. This will be 00 bullhead. The trackplan is not absoulutely final, but I will need a short crossing, which I see as lower in the production schedule than the long crossing or slips.
 

I first learned of the veropin idea in a mention on the inspirational Eastwood Town thread. It has more recently been mentioned in the Peco points and Pleye Wood threads. As I have some ideas of my own to try, I though it best to start a new thread.

 

I did buy a C&L kit a couple of years ago, and had a play with it, but didn't get too far. The first issue I came up against, (thanks to RMweb),  was that of standards, in that the track produced wouldn't suit my stock. I have since collected some 00SF gauges to use in the build.

 

I want  to use  familiar tools and processes  to make the job easier, not having to learn too many new skills at one time.My plan is to start with a  cad sleeper layout drawing, and  laser cut it, producing sleepers and a jig at the same time. Holes for the pins will be cut at the same time. I know this will be wasteful, but it should keep things simple. Also I am not anticipating making too many crossings, unless I get hooked on the process...

 

There are some areas I need help on, and I would be grateful  for your ideas. The first one is sleeper material. I am considering mdf or ply.

A second is about the pins. It seems that there are various qualities about. Are genuine veropins the best  for this job?

 

The final question is something which takes me well outside my comfort zone. Is Templot the killer app which will produce dxf files which I can tinker with and then cut from? I know there is the templot forum to go to later, but my quick question is whether it will enable hole locations to be plotted relatively easily. I guess as long as it exports rail and sleeper centrelines, I can draw in the holes to the size I need. After I learn basic Templot, that is.

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[martin_wynne]

There are some areas I need help on, and I would be grateful  for your ideas. The first one is sleeper material. I am considering mdf or ply.

A second is about the pins. It seems that there are various qualities about. Are genuine veropins the best  for this job?

 

Hi Dave,

 

Vero pins won't hold firm in plywood or mdf. They are intended for use in SRBP or expoxy/glass laminates, preferably copper-clad so that they get soldered into position. The barbs under the head are intended as an assembly aid, not the final fixing.

 

For plywood you need to use the original "Brook Smith" rivets. These have a tubular end so that they can be clenched over on the underside of the timbers. They are available from the EMGS and Scalefour Society, and possibly elsewhere. They require the same 1mm dia. hole.

 

The original Vero brand pins have a smaller head diameter than some others, which makes it easier to fit the half-chair mouldings over them.

 

Is Templot the killer app which will produce dxf files which I can tinker with and then cut from?

 

Yes Templot can export DXF files, and you can set it to export the rails and timbers as centre-lines to define the rivet centres. However, that's a lot of faff to convert it to a CAD file and laser cut the timbers, and very wasteful of plywood.

 

If you have an inkjet printer, you can print the centre-lines as a template on tracing paper, like this:

 

 

 

 

Cut 4mm wide copper-clad or plywood strips to length and stick them on the tracing paper template. Turn it over and drill 1mm holes on the marked centres using a mini-drill.

 

4mm wide strip for turnout timbers is available from several suppliers.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

Edited January 14, 2018 by martin_wynne

[unravelled]

Thanks you for the quick response Martin. Part of my idea was to allow me to tinker with cad files, which I find relaxing, rather than struggling with accurate cutting and drilling, which I don't. My hope was that once soldered up, the assembly would be strong enough to lay, without  the sleepers falling off. Perhaps superglue applied after soldering might help, or a copper bus soldered under each sleeper.

The waste of ply isn't a problem for a one off short crossing, which might be all I need, and I can always cut a second set of sleepers in the gaps, as long as I need two the same...

I think my next step will be to demonstrate to myself that this won't work, with some test pieces using available materials.

Incidentally, what is the approximate head size of the "Brook Smith" rivets? One of the things that the veropin method has for me is the small head size.

 

Thanks again

 

Dave

[martin_wynne]

Incidentally, what is the approximate head size of the "Brook Smith" rivets? One of the things that the veropin method has for me is the small head size.

 

Hi Dave,

 

They are available in two sizes, 2mm and 2.5mm head dia.

 

Use 2mm if you want to add plastic chairs. Use 2.5mm if you want to build a fillet of solder to represent the chair jaw.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[Junctionmad]

There are high temp ( circa 230 degrees ) capable superglues , which could be used to hold the Vero pin. This would allow soldering

 

But the point is , the veto pin adds nothing to the mix for ply construction. It's use was always suggested as a method for copperclad , where cosmetic half chairs ate subsequently added. Vero pins in ply , really add nothing over using Brook-Smith rivets

 

Having built pointwork from several types of sleppers material , copperclad , ply , and plastic , my own view is that for ply , using fullly functional plastic chairs is the way to go, it's the quickest overall in time , looks the best and actually is the easiest to assemble.

[polybear]

This may be of interest - post 77 onwards.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69145-attention-00-sf-track-builders/page-4

HTH

Brian

Edited January 14, 2018 by polybear

[hayfield]

There are high temp ( circa 230 degrees ) capable superglues , which could be used to hold the Vero pin. This would allow soldering

 

But the point is , the veto pin adds nothing to the mix for ply construction. It's use was always suggested as a method for copperclad , where cosmetic half chairs ate subsequently added. Vero pins in ply , really add nothing over using Brook-Smith rivets

 

Having built pointwork from several types of sleppers material , copperclad , ply , and plastic , my own view is that for ply , using fullly functional plastic chairs is the way to go, it's the quickest overall in time , looks the best and actually is the easiest to assemble.

 

 

I totally agree with you as for using the plastic chairs functionally, well certainly with the plastic sleepers/timbers. Using ply timbers I still have a few personal issues with common crossings and feel that either using pre-made sub assemblies,

 

Whilst I have the tools for rivet construction to me the act of both punching holes and compressing rivets into thin ply an issue, the idea of using superglue after drilling holes into the thicker ply timbers is quite interesting

[Junctionmad]

I totally agree with you as for using the plastic chairs functionally, well certainly with the plastic sleepers/timbers. Using ply timbers I still have a few personal issues with common crossings and feel that either using pre-made sub assemblies,

 

Whilst I have the tools for rivet construction to me the act of both punching holes and compressing rivets into thin ply an issue, the idea of using superglue after drilling holes into the thicker ply timbers is quite interesting

Actually , John , I use presoldered common crossings on my ply /functional chairs turnout construction too. mainly because it avoids me using collections of specialist chairs and i like the rigidity of the construction

[hayfield]

Actually , John , I use presoldered common crossings on my ply /functional chairs turnout construction too. mainly because it avoids me using collections of specialist chairs and i like the rigidity of the construction

 

The specialist chairs actually work in practice, with plastic timbers I only need soldered Vees, bonding & dropper wires. The solvent locks the rails in place, and for those less dexterous with the soldering iron far easier to use. But always each to their own, much better to build to your own comfort level 

Edited January 15, 2018 by hayfield