Martin Finney 7mm LNER A3

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That appears to be a well thought out idea!

 

 

Emma

Hi Emma,

Yes I agree. It's the first time I've come across it. It could be done even if cleats are not required under the boiler, as they could just be tabs that are snipped off after soldering.

Cheers,

Peter.

[Denbridge]

Hi Emma,

Yes I agree. It's the first time I've come across it. It could be done even if cleats are not required under the boiler, as they could just be tabs that are snipped off after soldering.

Cheers,

Peter.

Hi Emma,

Yes I agree. It's the first time I've come across it. It could be done even if cleats are not required under the boiler, as they could just be tabs that are snipped off after soldering.

Cheers,

Peter.

i love the finney kits always, along with those by Malcolm Mitchell are always so well designed.

[PAD]

Here are the parts for the fire box former.

After assembly and the wrapper added.

For the smoke box saddle you have an etched or cast option. I chose the castings which are in two parts. You need to remove 5mm from the sides of one to achieve the correct length. After cutting with the razor saw and fettling up (makes a change to have to do some fettling on this kit), I soldered the two parts together on the inside with 145 degree solder. Plenty of flux, temperature turned down on the TCS, and in and out quick. "Job's a good un". The joint on the outside will be covered by the steam pipes so no need to worry about that.

And with the boiler in place.

The casting needed a little fitting to the curve of the smoke box by rubbing on emery wrapped around it, but not much.

The fit is very good even just placed on the running plate.

And the fit at the cab end.

 

I decided it was time to get rid of the cradle so that I could check the fit of the chassis. I first drilled and tapped 6 BA a temporary hole in the smoke box over the chassis fixing hole in the running plate. At the rear, I drilled through the running plate into the firebox bottom plate. the holes in the running plate were opened to clear 10 BA bolts, and the holes in the firebox tapped 10 BA. After screwing the running plate and boiler together, I cut of the cradle with a slitting disc. Here's the running plate on its own. With the cradle removed, I was able to clean up all the crud that had built up in all the nooks and crannies.

 

​And screwed together.

 

Here's the fixing screws at the rear. After removing the cradle, I found I had got them positioned under the top edges of the rear frame extensions so had to move them out. I also moved them forward a little and added another fixing at the rear of the firebox.

 

At the front, I soldered a strip of thick NS waste etch across the temporary fixing holes inside the smoke box. at the front. I then drilled a hole either side of the chassis fixing hole in the cross member on the running plate. Then I drilled into the smoke box and the thick NS strip. The holes in the cross member were widened to clear 10 BA bolts and the holes in the smoke box tapped 10 BA.

 

Here are the main parts for the cab. The 6BA nuts are for securing the chassis and the 10 BA for securing the cab to the running plate. The cab will not be soldered, only screwed in place to the back of the firebox and the running plate.

 

And all screwed together, chassis and all.

 

To improve the look of the bogie, I have changed the cheese head 10 BA bolts for counter sunk ones.

 

Virtually invisible now and will be better when painted.

 

And a shot with the right hand cab side held in place with blue tack.

 

Looking more and more like an A3.

 

Cheers,

Peter

Edited March 18, 2018 by PAD

[DougN]

Indeed, looking very  very nice. It is making me wish I could find the time to get back into the V2 I started years ago. Umm spare time, can I purchase it? 

[PAD]

The main cab structure is now completed and screws nicely to the running plate and fire box. Here is the cab and roof which is designed to slot in place. I'll probably glue it after painting. Like the running plate it is built up on a sacrificial jig which is removed with a cutting disc when completed.

 

 

And screwed to the running plate.

 

At this point I couldn't resist a preview with the tender. The chimney and dome are just placed for the photo.

 

As I had folded up the cylinder etch I thought I'd continue with it. First you have to laminate the six etchings that make up the slide bars. Here they are still pinned to a piece of wood after soldering. The pins keep them all aligned and are the cut off and filed back. The short extension on the right is later cut off to allow the cross head to fit between the slide bars. 

 

After a good deal of fettling and cleaning up and with the cross heads added.

 

And with the folded cylinder frame.

 

And soldered in place. The front and rear plates have rectangular holes into which the forward extensions of the slide bars locate. Makes it easy to line them up correctly.

 

Then the valve guides were added.

 

And then the cylinder covers and relief valves.

 

Here's the slide bar bracket being modified to suit the medium width frame spacers that I used.

 

The kit makes no provision to link the valve gear bracket to the cylinders. This is only linked with the valve gear itself.

As I want the cylinders and valve gear to be de-mountable as a unit I added a couple of stretchers from waste etch. Also it means I can build the valve gear off the frames which is easier. As the valve gear support is higher than the cylinders, I used a couple of corner pieces from one of the waste NS frets. Here they are ready for soldering. The shorter vertical lengths were cut down afterwards.

 

And soldered together.

 

Here's the unit in the frames.

 

Further forward on the frames I have added the remaining spacer which incorporates the front footsteps.

 

And at the other end I've added the footsteps on the sloping running plate at the side of the fire box. Some judicious "panel beating" with a jeweller's hammer on the underside of the running plate below the firebox, has removed one or two slight gaps to give a perfect fit. The firebox is only screwed not soldered to the running plate. The design of this kit really facilitates this type of construction which will be a boon at the painting stage.

 

The cab floor castings have also been added, as has a NS base to back plate casting. This has been drilled and tapped 10 BA to allow easy removal and fitting for painting. The cab seat castings have also been epoxied in place on the etched supports soldered to the cab sides.

 

This is the underside of the running plate showing the various screws securing it to the boiler and cab. At the front the two 10BAs into the smoke box. In the middle is the 6BA nut (On the topside of the cross member) for the front chassis retaining bolt. At the rear are 10BAs either side to the rear of the slope with one in the middle securing the firebox to the running plate. The larger central hole allows the 10BA bolt securing the back plate, to be inserted into the hole in the footplate to screw into the plate at the bottom of the back plate. Across the drag beam at the back are the two 10BAs securing the back of the cab. Inwards from them are the holes for the 6BA rear chassis retaining bolts. Finally the middle hole is for the draw bar. As mentioned earlier this is not all as designed, but the kit does lend itself to these modifications.

 

And finally in this post a couple of gratuitous preview shots with the tender. The chimney and dome are just placed for the photos.

 

A bloody marvellous kit and an absolute joy to build. Having sold some earlier models from lesser kits to raise a "war chest", I now have the Finney 7 A4 in the pipeline. Happy days.

 

Cheers,

Peter.

[AdeMoore]

Great work going on here, enjoying following this thread.

[david.hill64]

I hope you enjoy the A4 as much as I did! I was lucky enough to have a set of Alan Harris wheels for the one I built.

 

The A3 looks great.....pity about the lack of double chimney and blinkers.....hat, coat, etc......

[PAD]

Hi David,

 

Double chimney, blinkers?

 

David Hill, go to jail, go directly to jail, do not pass go and do not collect £200. Consider yourself chastised. Hahaha.

 

Yes I've read your build. Very nice.

 

On the wheels I prefer Slaters, and will be getting the standard bogie/tender wheels. I don't like the idea of the push on ones for Finney kits, and the standard ones work fine, as I've shown on here.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[doilum]

These days there a very few things that cause me to ponder the meaning of the tenth commandment. Finney kits are one of them.

[Horsetan]

^^

Is brilliant.

 

Do not paint! 

[Deano747]

Hi Peter, the A3 is coming along nicely!

 

Slightly off topic, and I don't wish to start a debate, but what epoxy do you favour, and why not solder the seats in place?

 

Regards, Deano.

[PAD]

Hi Deano,

Thanks. I'm using an Araldite variant at the moment but I don't know which one.

 

Horses for courses. The brass bracket is soldered, but I think it's easier to glue the white metal seat in place. It's in an awkward place and holding it and soldering right first time is hit and miss. With the epoxy you have time to adjust, and for what it is and where it is, the glue is OK.

Same with the white metal chimney and dome which will also be epoxied.

 

Cheers,

Peter.

[PAD]

Next the connecting rods. The instructions suggest pinning them to the cross head with NS rod, but I went for tapping the outer hole 10 BA and securing with a counter sunk bolt from the inside.

 

The crank pins were then altered from 12 BA bolts to 10 BA, and the bushes tapped out to fit. Here are a rear and front ones after modification. The rear one on the left has a JLTRT cast nut, and the front has the brass bush reversed for extra clearance. 

 

 

And a middle driver. The width required to clear the coupling and connecting rod big end, just matches two Slaters bushes with room for a spacing washer. The return crank has been soldered to

the outer bush.

 

And with the wheels back in the chassis and the rods fitted.

 

The balance weights, chimney and dome have now been added.

 

The front buffers are very nice white metal castings, with dual action as explained by this shot of the assembly diagram.

 

I like the 14 BA nut fitting, which would have been good to have on the rear buffers instead of the 8 BA. This would have made it possible to fit the buffers at the correct width.

 

Next the 2:1 levers. Here they are ready for fitting.

 

And in place. The instructions suggest using NS rod for the main pivot, but I opted to tap the hole in the fixing beam 10 BA, and fix with a bolt. The valve rods will need trimming to accommdate the rear valve rods and it will be easier to do if the 2:1 set up can be taken off.

 

Now the radius rods and expansion links. Here's the right hand unit partly constructed. The central laminated part of the expansion link with the slot, is now captive in the laminated radius rod by a length of 1.0mm NS rod. At the top and bottom are two lengths of 0.5mm NS rod which line up the the four parts of the expansion link, and represent the fixing bolts when trimmed and filed.

 

Here are the pair completed. The expansion link and radius rod laminate were all done with 145 solder. However, for the fork joint laminate at the front, I used a higher temperature solder, and will revert to 145 for soldering the pin that will attach it to the combination lever. Hopefully the fork won't fall apart.

 

The expansion link is then slotted into the valve gear support by springing the sides. The pivots are short lengths of 1.8mm rod, which are produced by soldering a length of rod through the holes, then cutting with the piercing saw and filing to length. 

 

Here's the right hand side with the expansion link slotted into the bracket.

 

The pivots were too short and needed re-doing. However after much faffing around and still not getting it right, I decided to do it the other way round, and solder the pivots to the expansion link, then slot them through holes in the motion bracket. After adding the pivots to the expansion link, I separated the motion bracket from the cylinders to make it easier to fit them. Here's one added. It needed a couple of washers on the outer side and I used 12 BA washers drilled out to fit. I soldered them to some waste etch so I could hold them while drilling.

 

And both links in place and the motion bracket soldered back onto the cylinder assembly.

 

And with the lifting links added and the motion in reverse gear.

 

And in forward gear.

 

Here it is after the eccentric rod was added. The washer at the big end is to give clearance for the turned and thinned down 12 BA bolt head to rotate under the bearing cover yet to be fitted. The rod is spaced from the return crank with a washer, and after tightening the bolt to give a running clearance, it was soldered, snipped and filed smooth. Here it is in mid gear.

 

And in reverse gear.

 

And forward gear.

 

The rods slide up and down nicely in the expansion links without being sloppy, so I'm quite pleased with it.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Deano747]

STUNNING!! As always, you make it look so simple!

 

Regards, Deano.

[Dave Holt]

Peter,

Yet another very superb build under way. It looks as if Finney kits go together rather well (with a few extra tweaks of your own). Just a pity he didn't do much(?) LMS and no BR Standard stuff!

Are you planning to make the reversing gear operable in service, perhaps using a servo to drive the reach rod?

Looking forward to seeing further progress.

Dave.

[PAD]

Thanks Deano.

Hi Dave,
Yes the fit of the parts is excellent, and apart from removing the cusp, there is little fettling required.

For the LMS I think Martin only did the Duchess and of course no BR, but who knows what the new owners of the range may introduce in the future. There's a W1 and K1 under development and from seeing the progress with the test builds at Kettering on the F7 stand, I'm sure they will both be superb kits.

No, I have no intention of adding a servo to the reversing gear. To be honest I see if as a bit of a novelty, and for me just being able to easily set it in forward, mid or reverse gear would have sufficed. That said, I had to have it workable and it will be good to be able to slide the radius rod up or down in the union link when I'm playing with it. Whoops, I mean when I'm doing some serious running on the layout!

I don't know if if will need something added to keep it in the set gear when running. I've got and idea how I can put a simple clip and spring on the reversing shaft if necessary.

Cheers,
Peter

Edited March 31, 2018 by PAD

[Horsetan]

....Are you planning to make the reversing gear operable in service, perhaps using a servo to drive the reach rod?....

He'd have to change his name to Tim Watson first.

[PAD]

He'd have to change his name to Tim Watson first.

No, you don't have to be Tim Watson to do it. Other builders have done it and if I wanted to do it, I would just do it.

[Petebe]

Peter  

 

I got to say WOW!!!!!

 

If my Finney turns out half as good as your Finney I'll be over the moon. And yes Your Finney is bigger than mine  

 

The Master at work

 

Pete (Grasshopper)

[EHertsGER]

Would it be too much to ask for some tips on how you clean up as you go? I thought I was tidy, but this is an object lesson in cleaning up!

 

Best,

Marcus

[Bucoops]

Would it be too much to ask for some tips on how you clean up as you go? I thought I was tidy, but this is an object lesson in cleaning up!

 

Best,

Marcus

 

I'm not even remotely in the same league as PAD, but I found that changing to a different "Brand" (not that either were branded) of scratchbrush. The first one I had was relatively soft and didn't achieve anything. Then when I eventually wore it out, the replacement was a lot harsher and removed solder so much easier.

[PAD]

Hi Marcus,

I'll write a reply later when I can get on my laptop. However, as far as removing solder with a scratch brush is concerned, I would agree with Bucoops that some refills are more abrasive than others.

Cheers,

Peter

[jdb82]

I'm not even remotely in the same league as PAD, but I found that changing to a different "Brand" (not that either were branded) of scratchbrush. The first one I had was relatively soft and didn't achieve anything. Then when I eventually wore it out, the replacement was a lot harsher and removed solder so much easier.

 

 

Mmmmm.....me thinks I need to change mine - the ones I have are relatively soft it seems; fine for polishing brass but no good for removing much. They came as a refill pack of 10 from Eileen's. I shall try somewhere else!

[PAD]

Would it be too much to ask for some tips on how you clean up as you go? I thought I was tidy, but this is an object lesson in cleaning up!

 

Best,

Marcus

 

Hi Marcus,

OK, its all very simple  stuff but  here's what I do.

 

First of all its a lot easier  if  you  don't have excess solder, but  try  as we all do we don't  get it  right  every time. Where possible  solder on the  inside of  joints so any excess won't be visible. However, its is still best to use  the  minimum required for  the  job and  if you  have  enough flux and  enough heat, the  solder  will flow.  I'm not  getting  into a debate about  the  best  soldering  iron, but  I have an Antex TCS 50 W iron that I use  for  70 , 145 and I think 210 degree solder as required. I've heard good things about  the  gas flame ones but  have  not tried one  yet.

 

Before  soldering, clean the metal with emery paper, garriflex block, brass suede brush or glass fibre scratch brush.  Normally I only  use  the  latter for  removing solder as the  fibres can get  in you  fingers if  you  are not  careful.  Also, clean the  solder with an abrasive before you  use  it  to remove any  oxide layer or  crud.

 

So, the  joint is soldered but  you  have  excess solder that needs removing. First rinse  and  dry the  work piece. If it's (hopefully) just a  thin "tinned" layer then the  garriflex block may shift it.  If it's more stubborn then the  glass fibre scratch brush comes into play.  As mentioned earlier some  types are harder and  more abrasive than others.  The latter are more efficient and  have a silver collar as opposed to a brass one. However, having  a  silver collar is  no guarantee that you  have  the  harder grade. The ones I've used (pinched from my  brother - thanks Mick) are from Wizard Models who get them from Gauge Master and  I believe are made  in Germany. 

 

If the  excess is  quite  thick then the  first thing you  can do is try to thin it  with the  iron if  possible.  Add plenty of  flux then quickly apply the well wiped iron and  drag the solder away from the  joint.  Keep wiping the iron and  repeating to thin the  layer of  solder as much as possible.  Rinse well in water and  dry, then attack it  with the scratch brush.

 

The next option is  to use  a  scraper.  I have  three that I use, all home  made or  modified from other tools. For  removing large excesses on the inside of joints ( I prefer not  to leave it  messy even if  it  can't be seen), I have made a chisel from an old 1/4 inch file by grinding the  end with a disc in the mini drill. This is  quite aggressive and  can gouge the  metal so needs careful use.

 

I have  a similar one  made  from brass rod which can be used on outside faces as it removes the  solder but  does not  gouge the brass.

 

Thirdly, and  my  favourite is  a modified dental probe. If  I recall, it  starter out having  a spatula like end about 3/4 inch long. What I did  was grind a curve on one  side  and  sharpen it. This  is  more  effective than the  brass and  using the  curved edge from side  to side  does not  scratch or gouge.  All these  scrapers then need follow up work with the  scratch brush to finish the job.

 

Another method is to use a flat circular steel wire brush in the mini drill (like a chimney sweep's brush). At high speed this  can quickly remove excess solder, but  be  careful, the  brush will start too loose bristles and  they can fly anywhere.  Best not  do this indoors!

 

At the  end  of  the  session I then rinse the  work piece or  pieces in warm water. I will then either give it  a scrub with Hob bright using an old tooth brush or one of  those cheap artist brushes (the  ones with course bristles and  unpainted handles), or  I may use Viakal lime scale  remover. Two points on these  products. First the  Hob bright, will leave a white  deposit particularly on solder in seams so need a lot  of  rinsing to get rid of  it.  That why some times I follow the  Hob bright with the  Viakal (which is  nasty stuff so read the  instructions).  Again I use the  brushes to scrub the  surface and  get  in all the  nooks and  crannies. The  thing to watch with this  is  that you  must not  leave it  to dry!  On brass it  will stain it brown very badly. I don't  know  about  nickel silver as I have  only ever cocked it  up on brass. If it  does happen then I found the  only  way to clean it  was to scrub again with Hob bright.

Bottom line with both these products is  to rinse well with lots of scrubbing.  To improve the abrasion of  the  artist's brushes, I cut  them shorter to around 1/2 inch or less.

 

After every wash session I then blow dry with an old hair dryer.

 

So that's all there  is to it. It's not rocket science, just scraping scrubbing and  rinsing after every session, and  in some cases during the session.  Even then it  is  difficult  to keep brass clean as it  tarnishes like  hell compared to nickel silver. One other  simple point to note. Do not  have  your part built work pieces or tender etc in the  room when you  are working on other  parts of  the  build.  Put  them in a  drawer or  a box as the  flux vapours will find their way onto the  part built  items and  within a couple of  days they will be covered in crap.

 

I hope  that's useful.  I'm sure  others have  their own methods and favourite cleaning products, (including ultrasonic bath's and  grit blasting) but  please start a separate topic if you  want  to get  into further  discussions on cleaning.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[EHertsGER]

Aha! The abrasive powder! That was the missing piece for me, so thank you for your guidance.

 

Best,

Marcus