Carriage and Wagon loads

[Matt Roe]

Hi,

 

Can anybody tell me if there is a ready reckoner to covert loco Power Classifications into the number of coaches or wagons that can be hauled?

 

I was just wondering what a reasonable number of wagons something like a GWR Prairie or Pannier tank could pull.

 

Hopefully someone can help!

[Phil Bullock]

Hi Matt

 

That will depend entirely on the working. Capability to start and move a load does not confer the ability to work the same load over any distance as consumption of water will become a limiting factor if a loco has to be worked hard for any prolonged period. The ability to time a load to stay out of the way of other faster traffic will also be a factor

 

Hence a GWR pannier tank would generally be limited to 2 -3 coaches over any distance but might work a much more substantial train for a short distance eg between Cheltenham and Gloucester where it would be exchanged for a Castle.

 

The ability to control a substantial train when braking is another key factor.

 

Hope that gives you a start - googling pictures of the locos you are interested in will give you a good idea, as will reading relevant books written by enginemen - if panniers and prairies are your interest then something like https://www.amazon.co.uk/Panniers-Prairies-Memories-Western-Fireman/dp/0851533949 might be a good starting point

 

Phil

[eastglosmog]

The GWR had a nomograph showing the capability of locomotives of various power classifications to pull a given number of loaded 10 ton wagons up various gradients from level to 1 in 15.  Factors are given to convert empty or other weight wagons into equivalent loaded 10 tonners.  There is a copy in the Atkins et al bible on GWR wagons. A class C loco could pull 54  10 ton wagons on the level and 21 up 1 in 75 for example.  I am sure I have seen a version on the internet somewhere but can't find it at the moment.

Edited January 19, 2018 by eastglosmog

[Matt Roe]

Thanks for the replies. 

 

I think the nomograph you were mentioning eastglosmog was something like this:

 

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/misc/misc_equip195.htm#inclines

 

thanks for the tipoff.

 

So for the most common locos on the level the haulage capacity of 10 tonne wagons and coaches (I'm kind of guessing here) would be:

 

Loco ---------- Class ----------- Wagons ------------ Coaches

 

King                 Special              Over 90                    13+

Castle              D                        75                            11

Hall                  D                        75                            10-11?

Collett Goods  B                        52

5600 Prairie     D                        75

4500 & 4575 Prairie       C          54

5700 Pannier   C                        54

1400 Tank      <A                      <46

 

Seems like some good numbers to start... Another table in the link above shows that on some routes locos hauled unto 100 empty wagons on some routes. With the limited amount of stock I have for my layout it does not seem that any locos I have will have any un-prototypical problems of hauling the various combinations of stock.

[eastglosmog]

Matt - That was what I was thinking of and very likely the site where I found it before! Thanks for finding it.  It is much easier to read in the web version than the rather small scale reproduction in Atkins et al.

[wagonman]

If you consult the Appendix to the Working Timetables you should find the loading limits for various classes over particular routes – there's nowhere that's level all the way, not even the Somerset 'Levels'.

[The Stationmaster]

If you consult the Appendix to the Working Timetables you should find the loading limits for various classes over particular routes – there's nowhere that's level all the way, not even the Somerset 'Levels'.

 

The source varies over the years.  For example the GWR gave freight loadings in the Service Timetables and Passenger train loads in a loads book.  Freight loading assessment methods differeed between Companies, and BR regions until 1968  when teh National freight train Loads system was introduced and freight loads then went into the relevant section of the WMRS (Working manual For Rail Staff) with a lot of maximum load inforrmation carried in the Freight Marshalling books.  passenhger loads were published, usually, in Passenger Train Load books.

 

Current Sectional Appendixes do not appear to contain loads information but I only have the Western Zone publication and it might be different elsewhere - as they are NR publications it seems to me unlikely that they would contain complete Loads tables which are basically the concern of freight operators.  There is reference in the current WMRs to NR publishing maximum permitted loads in a 'Freight Train Loads Book' but for some reason it doesn't seem to be available online

Edited January 21, 2018 by The Stationmaster

[Siberian Snooper]

A further point is that on the day a driver may decide that the engine was in good nick and the conditions were favourable and exceed the permitted load, it was often the case that the driver of a train approaching Newton Abbot, would take the decision that all was well and take the load unaided over the banks to Plymouth. On the other hand he may have had a bag of spanners, with a lower than permitted load and either decide take a pilot or even in extreme circumstance a change of engine.

 

I would take the load tables as a guide rather than a hard and fast ruling for any engine or load.

[The Stationmaster]

A further point is that on the day a driver may decide that the engine was in good nick and the conditions were favourable and exceed the permitted load, it was often the case that the driver of a train approaching Newton Abbot, would take the decision that all was well and take the load unaided over the banks to Plymouth. On the other hand he may have had a bag of spanners, with a lower than permitted load and either decide take a pilot or even in extreme circumstance a change of engine.

 

I would take the load tables as a guide rather than a hard and fast ruling for any engine or load.

 

In the diesel era (and to some extent in steam days on the GWR/WR) loads were based on an engine in average conditions running over a rail surface in average condition on a day with average weather conditions and just about everything else average as well.  The computer algorithims to arrive at all this were no doubt somewhat complex but amazingly accurate and on the various occasions we put some of them to the test, particularly with Class 59s and 60s they were spot on with running times accurate to within seconds.

[eastglosmog]

The great advantage of the nomograph over the Appendix to the working timetable is that the GWR, very unreasonably, did not provide loadings for lines like the main line of the East Gloucestershire that were never built (even if they should have been)!

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks for the replies. 

 

I think the nomograph you were mentioning eastglosmog was something like this:

 

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/misc/misc_equip195.htm#inclines

 

thanks for the tipoff.

 

So for the most common locos on the level the haulage capacity of 10 tonne wagons and coaches (I'm kind of guessing here) would be:

 

Loco ---------- Class ----------- Wagons ------------ Coaches

 

King                 Special              Over 90                    13+

Castle              D                        75                            11

Hall                  D                        75                            10-11?

Collett Goods  B                        52

5600 Prairie     D                        75

4500 & 4575 Prairie       C          54

5700 Pannier   C                        54

1400 Tank      <A                      <46

 

Seems like some good numbers to start... Another table in the link above shows that on some routes locos hauled unto 100 empty wagons on some routes. With the limited amount of stock I have for my layout it does not seem that any locos I have will have any un-prototypical problems of hauling the various combinations of stock.

 

Don't use that source for passenger train loads as it does not give an accurate answer and they varied over the years.  For example the first GWR Passenger Loads Book quoted 420 tons behind a 'Star' or Castle' on level track but the 1962 edition quoted 455 tons for a 'Castle', effectively an extra coach.  The whole point of passenger loads were what an engine could haul and keep time and were therefore much less than maximum loads, the freight loads were subject to a wider range of influences.