Andy Y Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 From http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/129795-help/&do=findComment&comment=3011986 Greetings! I do not know how to put my question in the right place! I'll come here! Need help identifying the locomotive for the sidewalk. This locomotive existed in Russia at the beginning of the twentieth century at a metallurgical plant in Nizhny Tagil. The photo is dated 1902 year. For many reasons, this locomotive is similar to some examples of industrial locomotives in the UK, Ireland. In our country besides this photo there is no more information in history ... I really hope that your community will help me. Sincerely, Andrei R. Yeah; I know it's Russian and this is the UK prototype area! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted January 22, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) Yeah; I know it's Russian and this is the UK prototype area! oh I dunno, looking at some of the attire and beards in the picture it could well be modern day camden or shoreditch with all its hipsters Edited January 22, 2018 by big jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davknigh Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 It could very easily be an export from one of the usual suspects as a Russian built engine would have more bits hung on the exterior. For some reason Hudswell Clarke comes to mind but I’m sure someone will correct me. Cheers, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 the works plate looks like a hudswell and the loco as a whole looks just like a hudswell of about 1890 No 421 of 1894 0-6-0ST 5ft gauge is noted as being shipped to st petersburg for an S.G. Martin source Leedsengine.info Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Looks like a Kitson to me. Kitson's definitely built locomotives for Russia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitson_and_Company Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 now that you mention it, the dome does look like a kitson a batch of 6 for the Yaroslav-Vologda Rly in 1872 No's 1857 to 1862 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) Looks like a Kitson to me. Kitson's definitely built locomotives for Russia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitson_and_Company Jason As did Vulcan Foundry, around the same time, and look at the safety valve cover. The outside cylinder 0-6-0ST is definitely a Victorian type. Edited January 22, 2018 by rockershovel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastglosmog Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 As a matter of interest, is it certain it is an 0-6-0? No wheels visible behind all those people and the front overhang looks quite long. Also, is it certain it is 5ft gauge? Looks like mixed gauge track in the foreground, so could be c 3ft. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 its too big to be 3ft and looks like standard but russia used 5ft gauge instead Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 As a matter of interest, is it certain it is an 0-6-0? No wheels visible behind all those people and the front overhang looks quite long. Also, is it certain it is 5ft gauge? Looks like mixed gauge track in the foreground, so could be c 3ft. There were some very large 3’ Gauge locos in the USA and Peckett built some big 0-6-0ST for the Northants ironstone lines, but 3’ Gauge wasn’t really a Russian thing. I’d say those dual gauge lines in the foreground were/are lightweight depot tramway lines, judging by the lack of chairs and the lateral tie-bolts. The front overhang is determined by the outside cylinders, which are just visible. I’d agree, it is the right sort of size for a SG or 5’ Gauge 0-6-0 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastglosmog Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 its too big to be 3ft and looks like standard but russia used 5ft gauge instead Could you provide a reference for that statement about it being to big to be 3ft gauge, please? It looks smaller than some of the 3ft gauge locomotives supplied to the West Clare or Londonderry and Lough Swilly, for example. It appears to be of similar size to some of the 3ft 3in gauge locomotives on the Finedon Ironstone lines (although these are much squatter due to restricted height loading gauge). Whilst the Russian standard gauge was 5ft, they also used narrower gauges, 3ft 6in and 2ft 5.5in being quoted as common. They also had at least one industrial railway of 3ft gauge, as Hunslet supplied 9 locomotives of that gauge in 1910-16 to the Kyshtim Karabash Copper Railway in the Urals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neil Posted January 22, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2018 The layout of the chimney, smokebox and saddle tank is very distinctive; I've never seen anything like it before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Isn't Kestrel in the shed behind ? Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 22, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2018 Hudswell Clarke built some outside cylinder 0-6-0 ST locos for the NCB, One was at Mountain Ash. http://www.philt.org.uk/Industrial/Ind-Steam/i-PLVPsN6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velopeur Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 The front end looks almost like a prequel to the Kerr Stuart Victory class - though the Victory class had side tanks. On the other hand, the Belgians built a number of locos that looked almost 'British', but not quite 100%. The photo suggests a lack of aesthetic care that might just make it of foreign origin - like the awkward position of the cylinders and the strange overlap of the side sheets at the front edge of the cab. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Googling the place name, it's a very heavily industrialised area of Russia. They seem to have a few locomotives there including something that looks like a copy of a USA Tank. https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/steam-locomotive-car-exhibition-mining-equipment-765316984 And a steelworks museum that looks similar to the place where the above photograph was took. Look at the large arched windows. http://russiatrek.org/blog/technology/steel-works-museum-in-nizhny-tagil/ Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) I'm coming at this thread late, having just seen the responses posted on the IRS group. The conclusion reached there is that the locomotive is most likely Hudswell Clarke 592 of 1901. What I can add is that, as such, it was the last of seven similar locomotives built from 1894 onwards and supplied via the contractors (SG Martin and T Medhurst). All were to five feet Russian gauge. In at least five instances the final customer was "the heirs of Paul Demidoff, [first] prince of San Donato", Demidoff having considerable mining interests across the territory of Tsarist Russia and would be most likely to have operated at the location given. Here is the full list HC 421/1894 (poosibly named "ATRAINT") to St Petersburg via SG Martin HC 450/1896 (named "SAN DONATO"), 468/1896. 469/1896, 497/1898 to Reval (now Tallinn, Estonia), via T Medhurst for Demidoff HC 488/1898 to Novorossisk (Black Sea port) via SG Martin HC 592/1901 to Reval via SG Martin for Demidoff Although other British builders also supplied 0-6-0STs to Russia (Manning Wardle, EB Wilson) they are quite different in appearance, location and date. Edit: Just to add that an article "Demidov, Nizhe Tagil and the British Connection" in "The Narrow Gauge" issue 170 includes an official works photo of the "class leader" "SAN DONATO". The locomotive pictured in this thread is obviously from the same stable (albeit with some minor detail differences. (What a group of broad gauge locomotives are doing in a narrow gauge magazine is a bit like a Russian locomotive being discussed under UK Prototype!) Edited January 23, 2018 by EddieB 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Looks like a Kitson to me. Kitson's definitely built locomotives for Russia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitson_and_Company Jason now that you mention it, the dome does look like a kitson a batch of 6 for the Yaroslav-Vologda Rly in 1872 No's 1857 to 1862 None of the 94 locomotives (and two railcars) supplied by Kitsons to Russian/Ukrainian customers were 0-6-0STs. The 1872 batch were 0-6-0 tender engines (their tenders being given separate works' numbers following on sequentially, i.e. 1863-1868). In fact the only tank locomotives in this category were two side tanks in 1873 and ten saddle tanks in 1881, all four coupled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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