Alternative motor to Triang X04

[eastworld]

Are there any alternatives to the Triang XO4 that can be fitted without too much hassle. I'm looking for something that's a bit better than the existing one, so would probably be a 5 pole?

 

Stu

[hayfield]

Are there any alternatives to the Triang XO4 that can be fitted without too much hassle. I'm looking for something that's a bit better than the existing one, so would probably be a 5 pole?

 

Stu

 

Stu

 

The MRRC/Airfix 5 pole motors, only available second hand now, Its a direct replacement.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Airfix-MRRC-Motor/222805467342?hash=item33e03da0ce:g:Nh8AAOSw-RFaXMbp

This one's a bit dear, far better than the Triang Hornby 3 pole motor

 

Not this version  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12-Volt-Super-Racing-Motor-Box-Model-Road-Racing-Cars-MRRC-Motor-spins/323019138450?hash=item4b3570e592:g:WoYAAOSwlxRaZLKf

Which is for slot cars

 

Not the more modern Airfix motors which a bevelled magnet at the rear

[bigherb]

As stated the MW005 motor and the Romford Bulldog was a direct replacement,

 

Or you can fit the later Hornby B12 motor.

 

Other motors can be fitted with etched motor mounts. Branchlines did one not sure if they are still available.

 

Or ones from SE Finecast.

 

 

[melmerby]

When buying a MRRC motor apart from the ones with axle mounts there are others which were intended for slot cars

I inadvertantly bought one new (when they were available) and found the up to 2.5A current consumption a bit high!

 

Boy did it go though.

I had a 200mph Wills 94XX pannier tank!

 

Keith

[DCB]

Are there any alternatives to the Triang XO4 that can be fitted without too much hassle. I'm looking for something that's a bit better than the existing one, so would probably be a 5 pole?

 

Stu

The best replacement for a tired X04 that I have found is a new X04.  The B12 motor is just feeble.  The MW 005 lacks torque and although it runs smoothly tends to stop at the slightest up hill slope and rocket back down hill unless you change to lower gearing. The other replacements need different motor mounts.and a change of gearing. The old Romford Bulldog was powerful, but a good X04 with a good magnet should run very smoothly.    I use a weird variety of motors including replacing 5 pole armatures with 3 pole Triang armatures  in Ks Motors for more power, and using computer CD drive motors where X04s woud protrude into a cab,  The later X03 branded plastic worm motors are a bit naff but just need oil retaining felts and a change to metal gears.  If your magnet has gone limp a few cheap Chinese super neo magnets will liven it up for a couple of quid or so

[hayfield]

Stu

 

Which loco is it for?

[stewartingram]

The best replacement for a tired X04 that I have found is a new X04.  The B12 motor is just feeble.  The MW 005 lacks torque and although it runs smoothly tends to stop at the slightest up hill slope and rocket back down hill unless you change to lower gearing. The other replacements need different motor mounts.and a change of gearing. The old Romford Bulldog was powerful, but a good X04 with a good magnet should run very smoothly.    I use a weird variety of motors including replacing 5 pole armatures with 3 pole Triang armatures  in Ks Motors for more power, and using computer CD drive motors where X04s woud protrude into a cab,  The later X03 branded plastic worm motors are a bit naff but just need oil retaining felts and a change to metal gears.  If your magnet has gone limp a few cheap Chinese super neo magnets will liven it up for a couple of quid or so

If you want it remagged, pm me.

 

Stewart

[PatB]

Given that Guy Williams was something of a fan of the X04 I can't see a properly fettled and suitably geared example being too bad. Roger Amos, in one of his books on electronics, claimed a decent but simple controller to be able to turn an unloaded X04, smoothly, at 10 rpm.

 

I know Ian Rice dismissed the Romford geared X04 as outdated technology three decades ago and, for a new build, he was probably right, but if you're replacing an existing one it seems simplest to replace it with another in better nick.

[eastworld]

I was looking at improving the running of the standard Triang mechanisms. I have already considered re-wheeling but wondered if there was a re-motoring option. Generally 5 pole motors run better than 3 pole hence the original question. I think going by what others have said a refurbished X04 maybe worth investigating.

 

Stu

[hayfield]

I was looking at improving the running of the standard Triang mechanisms. I have already considered re-wheeling but wondered if there was a re-motoring option. Generally 5 pole motors run better than 3 pole hence the original question. I think going by what others have said a refurbished X04 maybe worth investigating.

 

Stu

 

Stu

 

The reason I asked is that some of the early Triang chassis (Jinty & Polly) have screw together chassis. 

 

i have thoughts of a total rebuild of one of these, by cutting back the spacers so a modern slimline gear box with a can motor. At the same time bushing the axle holes to 1/8" inside diameter and fitting a set of Romford's and some etched coupling rods. Might not be worth it for a Jinty, but might be useful for a kit built loco which uses these chassis

[melmerby]

Stu

 

The reason I asked is that some of the early Triang chassis (Jinty & Polly) have screw together chassis. 

 

 

My early Triang locos (pacifics) had screw together chassis.

Two brass plates sandwiching two large mazak blocks.

It meant that the axles effectively ran in brass bearings.

I assumed they were all like that.

 

Keith

[hayfield]

My early Triang locos (pacifics) had screw together chassis.

Two brass plates sandwiching two large mazak blocks.

It meant that the axles effectively ran in brass bearings.

I assumed they were all like that.

 

Keith

Keith

 

The reason to bush the axles is to reduce the axle diameter from 3/16 ths to 1/8 th so a decent gearbox and motor can be used

[stewartingram]

Not much wrong with the running of the actual X04 motor - but as standard it is geared too low, at 20:1. Change the gear ratio and it performs ok. The old way was to use a TT worm which gave 40:1, or to use Romford gears. If you can get either, they are an easy fit, but are obsolete.

The X04 is also very easy to maintain; unless over oiled (around the commutator) it virtually lasts forever. Even if a winding goes open circuit, it is usually fixable - I've done plenty. It doesn't suffer magnetism loss as easily as the H-D motors, but I have the kit to sort that easily (foc to RMWeb members if you need it, just pay the postage).

And just to clear the numbering up, the X04 was later superceded by the X03, which is essentially the same motor with a plastic worm wheel. With a worm puller these are interchangeable. Also Scalextric cars of the period used similar motors but with a different front mounting (and gear). it is possible to rebuild these if you want to as well.

Stewart

[melmerby]

Keith

 

The reason to bush the axles is to reduce the axle diameter from 3/16 ths to 1/8 th so a decent gearbox and motor can be used

Yes I did that on the ones I converted. but just used 40:1 gears with the original motor or 5 pole replacement.

I even bushed a 20:1 Triang gear with a single start worm. (gives 40:1)

 

Keith

[DCB]

My early Triang locos (pacifics) had screw together chassis.

Two brass plates sandwiching two large mazak blocks.

It meant that the axles effectively ran in brass bearings.

I assumed they were all like that.

 

Keith

 

Only the very earliest Triang Princesses had the motor and gearbox in one unit. I have seen pictures but not one in the flesh.

 

The screw together chassis I have used have been pre about 1960 with the pre tension lock coupling and non see through wheels.

They have two mazak spacers as standard but I often use use K's frame spacers

You can bush the axle holes to 1/8th " and use Romford Markits wheels and 1/8th axles to suit a gearbox or Romford gears though the motor mounting needs adaptation to suit Romford gears which are much smaller diameter than the Triang.   The Gearbox may be too wide if intended for etched Brass frames.  I re drill my Triang Chassis to suit different loco wheelbases, often using Mainline or Bachmann  rods with spacing washers and Triang coupling rod screws.  Personally I keep the Triang Gears so I use a Markits 3/16th" knurled axle which takes the Triang gear.  I quite like the standard gearing for locos running at line speed.   

[DIW]

<snip>  The MW 005 lacks torque and although it runs smoothly tends to stop at the slightest up hill slope and rocket back down hill unless you change to lower gearing. <snip>

 

Mine has been working perfectly well in a rack-fitted locomotive on a slope up to 1 in 6 for a couple of decades.

 

If you want it remagged, pm me.

 

Stewart

 

That'll fix it!

[eastworld]

I have a friend who has some Anchoridge motors - DS13 and DS11 -  which he says I can have if he can find them. Would these fit in place of an X04 - he seems to think that he has used one for this in the past without any modification?

 

Stu

[DCB]

If the shaft of the motors is the same size as that of the X04 motor there should be no problem using the replacement motors you have.

 

On a similar note, I have been taking the old Hornby Ringfield motors apart in order to fit cd drawer motors into the area where the original motor parts were located.  However, this is where the bit about the motor shaft being the same size as the original shaft ( can't think of anything else to  describe it  ) comes in to the modifications. 

 

The problem I foynd with using the cd drawer motors is that their shaft diameter is not quite a full match for the original parts.

 

The solution I use is to add a piece of the plastic tubing from a cotton bud fiteed into the middle of the brass gear cog then onto the motor shaft.  It doesn't always work 1st time but after a bit of fettling on the inner diameter of the plastic tubing it eventually fits.

I fitted several Lima locos with CD drawer motors using scalextric motor pinions which come in several sizes about and are a dead fit on the CD motor shaft.  The mazak frame and problems fitting a drive gear have always stopped me doing a Hornby ring field.  I will try the cotton bud trick.

One problem with CD motors is that they have a lot of torque compared to an X04,  My 28XX with a long type CD motor will happily pull 30 wagons very little slower on the same controller setting as it will light engine and will quite happily slip its wheels at about the same speed when overloaded or diverted into a buffer stop.  I think an on board 1/2 or 1/4 amp polyswich (auto resetting thermal breaker) would be a good idea.  28XX is currently u/s due to slipping Romford 60:1  drive gears