Some skills advice please for newbie

[Norski]

Hi all

 

First post for me ever. I am in the process of planning my model railway having returned to the hobby 40 years later. While I am getting the room ready for base boards, basic layout etc I have been modelling my first card kit (scale scenes small modern station). I love the scenery side of the hobby but I am worried that despite having the luxury of space and time for a model railway my skills will badly let me down. That said I know Ive got to start somewhere and practice makes perfect. Having nearly completed the scale scenes kit please could someone kindly share some experience re:-

 

1) How many blades would you typically go through on a small card model - mine were blunting fairly quick? (scalpel type but quite old kit)

2) I struggled to cut 2mm card without damaging the print surface or losing a straight line despite having a steel straight edge?

3) Does cutting through 2mm card take multiple strokes as opposed one slash no matter how sharp your blade?

4) I used UHU all purpose glue, the best option or is there something more suitable?

5) I struggled with squareness of the final building (its not bad but it seems something stupid to mess up) - any tips?

 

As I said, returning to the hobby as an adult (big kid) and have found RWweb a great source of inspiration so far. Thought id join up now I'm taking the plunge and hopefully some of you (most of you) with far better skills will be happy to pass them on please.

 

Thanks

Steve 

 

 

[hayfield]

Steve

 

Buy your blades from the likes of eBay at 100 per time, far cheaper. It does sound they are going blunt quickly !!  Some resharpen their blades with an oil stone

 

Do you use a cutting mat ?

[Norski]

Steve

 

Buy your blades from the likes of eBay at 100 per time, far cheaper. It does sound they are going blunt quickly !!  Some resharpen their blades with an oil stone

 

Do you use a cutting mat ?

 

 

Hi - 100 at a time - wow ! thats a lot so I'm assuming you'd got through 10+ on a kit at least ?

 

I used a basic self healing cutting mat 

 

Steve.

[Andy Hayter]

I use a Swann Morton morticians knife for heavy duty cutting (Swann Morton PM40*).  It will do most things that a scalpel will do although for the finest detail work you might need to revert to a scalpel.

 

Even with this I would expect to make several passes with the blade to go through 2mm card.  

 

The choice of blades is very limited - curved blade with a sharp point, or the same with a rounded end - but you can choose to use either the point the curved section of the blade or the straight section of the blade depending on what you are cutting.

 

* You will probably struggle to find this in a model store but they are available on ebay - but be aware the blades and the knife handle cannot (so I am told) be legally sold together via the internet.  This is a serious bit of cutting equipment.

[pctrainman]

I did a complete Metcalfe mainline station in N gauge using just one Swann Morton blade , you do get blades snap when perhaps  they are at an awkward angle but for my entire 5 foot X 3 foot 3 inches layout build I used no more than 10 blades , the station is by far the largest card structure on my layout as in corporates extra canopies and an island platform but there were also some smaller structures as well as a few other things demanding the use of a blade .

[crompton 33]

I use glue stick's for sticking paper to the card. Uhu to build the kits. Stanley knife to cut out building use multiple strokes . Scalpel for windows doors .Welcome ro the RM

[Norski]

I use a Swann Morton morticians knife for heavy duty cutting (Swann Morton PM40*).  It will do most things that a scalpel will do although for the finest detail work you might need to revert to a scalpel.

 

Even with this I would expect to make several passes with the blade to go through 2mm card.  

 

The choice of blades is very limited - curved blade with a sharp point, or the same with a rounded end - but you can choose to use either the point the curved section of the blade or the straight section of the blade depending on what you are cutting.

 

* You will probably struggle to find this in a model store but they are available on ebay - but be aware the blades and the knife handle cannot (so I am told) be legally sold together via the internet.  This is a serious bit of cutting equipment.

 

 

Andy

 

Ironically had ordered Swann Morton blades and knives (one scalpel type, one not) last night after checking on google for hobby knives (the company I used will ship both knife and blade). You mentioned a curved blade whereas I had previously used what can only be described as a blade in the shape of a triangle. My replacement order last night included both types as I was unsure (i forget the codes but remember the shape) as I suspected the triangular blade ship was tearing as opposed to slicing. Your point on having to do multiple 'passes' for 2mm is duly noted (beginners optimism on my part).

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply

Steve

[Norski]

I did a complete Metcalfe mainline station in N gauge using just one Swann Morton blade , you do get blades snap when perhaps  they are at an awkward angle but for my entire 5 foot X 3 foot 3 inches layout build I used no more than 10 blades , the station is by far the largest card structure on my layout as in corporates extra canopies and an island platform but there were also some smaller structures as well as a few other things demanding the use of a blade .

 

N Gauge card kits ! Id take my hat off to you but it would stick to my glue covered fingers. I don't know how you do it my friend, I'm working in OO and it felt like had 10 thumbs at one point.

[Cornholio]

Hi Steve,

 

I've done quite a few of the scalescenes kits now, here a couple of things that work for me.

 

I also use UHU, because it sticks well and is available from Poundland.

 

UHU can easily mess up the look of windows if any gets on the glass, so I am either super careful or use Glue & Glaze by Deluxe Materials which dries clear.

 

Roket Card Glue is a great glue for these kits, but works out a lot more expensive than the UHU.

 

For 2mm card I would aim for about 3 passes of the blade. The 1st being a lighter cut to pierce the surface and create a groove, the 2nd to do the bulk of the work and a 3rd to make sure you are all the way through.

 

I use a "Stanley" type knife, blades are cheap in bulk and it is comfortable for me to hold.

 

To keep things square I have two small blocks of wood glued together at a 90 angle. Cheaper than an engineer's square. The best solution is called Model-Mates by York Modelmaking, which uses magnets to hold everything straight.

 

Finally I would take John Wiffin's advice to protect the print surface against fading from UV light. I use a spray called Ghiant, but any Matt varnish should do the job.

 

Happy Building!

 

Andrew

[Andy Hayter]

Andy

 

Ironically had ordered Swann Morton blades and knives (one scalpel type, one not) last night after checking on google for hobby knives (the company I used will ship both knife and blade). You mentioned a curved blade whereas I had previously used what can only be described as a blade in the shape of a triangle. My replacement order last night included both types as I was unsure (i forget the codes but remember the shape) as I suspected the triangular blade ship was tearing as opposed to slicing. Your point on having to do multiple 'passes' for 2mm is duly noted (beginners optimism on my part).

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply

Steve

 

Steve

The morticians knife is a wholly different beast to a scalpel but as sharp.  It has a three and a half inch exposed blade.  The blade is very robust and I have not broken one yet - not even the tip - and I have abused blades as much as any man.  A scalpel will cut through skin and flesh (including you  if you are careless).  A morticians knife will go through tendons, cartilage and some fine bones as well - thus the rules on shipping are rather different.  I suspect the blade length is a major factor in determining that they cannot be shipped together with the handle.

 

For scalpels I too use the triangular blades the most.

[NittenDormer]

Blades - I use a Stanley knife, quite often long after it is no longer very sharp.

Lots of strokes to cut through 2mm card.

Once I understand how the kit fits together (for instance 2nd run through of a scalescenes kit), I use mountboard (1.3mm) instead of 2mm card where I can, even to replacing a double thickness of 2mm with a triple thickness of mountboard.

Glue - I use children's PVA from hobbycraft. Takes ages to dry though.

Squareness - Megabloks. I've posted a picture somewhere on my Knadgerhill thread if this does not make sense to you.

Finally - curves are far more difficult to cut than straight edges. I really struggled with cutting for both a tunnel and an arched bridge. On the other hand, they didn't need any window holes!

[pctrainman]

N Gauge card kits ! Id take my hat off to you but it would stick to my glue covered fingers. I don't know how you do it my friend, I'm working in OO and it felt like had 10 thumbs at one point.

Believe you me Norski there were many occasions during the scenic work when I wished i'd gone for OO  and still do at times but my space was very limited and there was no way I could obtain any more so N it had to be .You do get used to it after a while and it becomes easier , the only other advice I can give is be patient and take your time as it's much better to let a small section you have just glued dry thoroughly and then attach it to a larger piece than to not let it dry properly and have it fall apart in your hands , when you've finished your card structures I also can recommend Ghiant as both a UV protector and to also protect the card should you decide to add some paint weathering etc .I used PVA for the majority of the work , occasionally i used a little UHU although I think I only used some UHU when I had run out of PVA for a while and I used  Rocket where I wanted an almost instant joint .have fun Norski , I dreaded the scenic work but I surprised myself by achieving something i'm very happy with whereas conversely I thought i'd love the Traincontroller and electronics work but found them to be the biggest headache .

[BR60103]

The newer Metcalfe kits have much more of the cuts done a the factory. I use X-Acto style knives and blades; I'm saving the little scalpels (from the early kits) for future use.

The blade is too dull if it won't cut a sheet of computer paper in a single pass. I think 3 or 4 passes should go through the card. I use a metal ruler and turn the knife very slightly so that it pushes into the ruler.

I talked to a picture framer about his mat cutting. He had some interesting blades -- about razor size but bevelled only one side so they fit right against a ruler. He was using them by the boxload as one blade was used for only one mat or possibly one side of one mat. I came away with a box of blades lightly used on one corner only.

Blades are cheap compared to kits.

I like the triangular (very acute) blades to get into window corners and such. I cut these away from the corner in both directions. 

 

Glue: I now use the Rocket glue as it sets very quickly. However it is not forgiving of mistakes. Previously I used yellow carpenter's glue which took a bit longer. Put a gob on aluminimum foil and apply with a toothpick. Before that I used white glue (I think it's what you call PVA) and it takes longer to set. If you are just starting you might want a slower glue so that you can shift parts to the right place.

I have a 50+year-old shed that is now coming apart -- I think I used either plastic or balsa cement for it.

 

Dry assemble the bits for a few steps ahead as the measurements given in the directions aren't always right. I have a building that I'm stuck on because there isn't enough room for the flat roof because the inner former is up too high.

[NittenDormer]

I have a 50+year-old shed that is now coming apart -- I think I used either plastic or balsa cement for it.

 

Hammer and nails, that's what you want when building a shed.

[ianLMS]

Welcome to the club Norski. I have built several Scalescenes kits and will try to help where possible. 

 

1) How many blades would you typically go through on a small card model - mine were blunting fairly quick? (scalpel type but quite old kit) - I use a stanley knife and buy a box of 100 blades from Ebay - a typical kit would see me through 4-5 blades.

 

2) I struggled to cut 2mm card without damaging the print surface or losing a straight line despite having a steel straight edge? - Try gentle passes, and lots of them - I use a new blade when I move from base layers to the printed sheets. Keeps it nice and clean. Also turn the printed sheet so you always cut from the white space and you can clearly see the edge of the printed surface. This helps with keeping the blade at the right angle and keeping control of the knife/rule.

 

3) Does cutting through 2mm card take multiple strokes as opposed one slash no matter how sharp your blade? - With a fresh blade, I would do at least 4 passes through 2mm card.

 

4) I used UHU all purpose glue, the best option or is there something more suitable? - Pritt Stick to laminate sheets to the card with a roller to squeeze out the excess, I use Evo-Stick Impact adhesive to glue card together, but UHU is similar. I have heard Rocket Card Glue is good, just not tried it.

 

5) I struggled with squareness of the final building (its not bad but it seems something stupid to mess up) - any tips? - Buy some small metal squares from Expotools, or if you are feeling extravagant, buy the York Magnetic Squares (I have them and they are great!) - https://www.yorkmodelrail.com/useful-bits/yorks-magnetic-mates-large-square-pack-of-2. I have also heard of magnets glued inside lego blocks which might work too!

This could also be down to the fact that some of the base/top layers were not cut exactly on the line. Several of my attempts ended up not being perfectly square and it was down to points of a millimetre out on the cutting of the card and/or slightly angled cuts due to the shape of the blade or forced cutting. This is easily rectified with a little trimming to square things up. Do a dry run before glueing might also help spot walls for squareness issues.

 

Other tips -

1. Use styrene rod for guttering/downpipes,

2. Fit LED lighting and printed/modelled interior (Severn Models have very nice etched interior kits)

3. Think how you intend to bed the model into the baseboard - some leave a 25mm-50mm showing at the bottom of the model to drop it into a pre-cut slot in the baseboard. However, I use No More Nails to stick mine down and fill the slight gap around the bottom.

4. Detailing - There is a 3D shop on Shapeways that sell chimney pots already set in 4's/6's to stick straight onto scelescenes kits (https://www.shapeways.com/marketplace/?tag=chimney), and Brassmasters do exact brass etched windows for the kits as well (www.brassmasters.co.uk/etched_windows_prices_specs_4mm.htm). I print my own windows on translucent projector film to give black window frames. I used rizzla/swan ciggie papers for net curtains, coloured paper for other curtains.

5. Roof tiles - I wasn't happy with the strips of roof tiles so now use roof tiles from York Modelmaking - a bit pricey, but look better. Another option is to cut out individual tiles.

6. Weathering - I use very light applications of weathering powders to break up the appearance.

 

See my link at the bottom to see a few I have made - 75% ratio church, farm and barn (forced perspective as these are at the back of the layout), 90% ratio garage (mid-way on layout), 100% ratio cottages, terraced houses, corner shops (front of layout). I had a medium station but replaced it with a scratchbuilt one. 

 

Enjoy and would be great to see your models when you are ready!

 

Ian

Edited January 31, 2018 by ianLMS

[Marly51]

I’ve used Swann Morton standard handle no 3 and surgical blades 10a and 11 all of my working life and find them ideal for most scratchbuilding work. I prefer the lighter Swann Morton handle to the Xacto one. As already recommended, I was taught to use several light passes to get a clean cut. Generally I find my blades seem to last a reasonable length of time and I keep the old ones for odd diy jobs around the house - eg scraping stray paint and varnish off glass after repainting window frames. I always use a new no 11 when cutting out fine detail in paper and card kits. Must try sharpening some old ones sometime, as I do have an old oil stone. Good luck with your modelling.

Marlyn

[Norski]

Thank all you so much for such detailed responses to my very first post, I would have been gutted if no one had replied. Just goes to show what a nice bunch railway modellers are. Keep the hobby strong by passing on the skills to the new guys.

 

Some absolutely great advice (some of it seems so simple but you just don't see it - novice excitment). I have clicked the thanks icon to all. Much appreciated. 

 

IanLMS - I gave myself a begrudging 5 out of 10 for my first effort and I don't want to post a picture until I figure out how to get my finger print off the station room. I followed your link then wished I hadn't LOL - I got a long way to go mate.

 

Thanks again to all

[BR60103]

Not asked about but

 

I have a bunch of X-Acto round handles which roll off the workbench if it's not dead level. I found some triangular erasers that have a hole down the middle for the pencil. These fit snugly on the handles. They're a couple of inches long but can be cut down for economy or comfort. I can put the knife down and find it in the same place.

I have a red one that I keep on the handle with the freshest blade.

[ianLMS]

Thank all you so much for such detailed responses to my very first post, I would have been gutted if no one had replied. Just goes to show what a nice bunch railway modellers are. Keep the hobby strong by passing on the skills to the new guys.

 

Some absolutely great advice (some of it seems so simple but you just don't see it - novice excitment). I have clicked the thanks icon to all. Much appreciated. 

 

IanLMS - I gave myself a begrudging 5 out of 10 for my first effort and I don't want to post a picture until I figure out how to get my finger print off the station room. I followed your link then wished I hadn't LOL - I got a long way to go mate.

 

Thanks again to all

My first attempts were pretty awful, so don't worry about that - if you look at the start of my layout thread you will see how bad I really was!! Pictures provoke a much better and faster response when looking for help, hints or tips. I have learnt so much from modellers on RMWeb its unbelievable. It's a very friendly Model Railway Club with 30,000 members and each of them experts in their own right and all just a click away. Use the search facility (not as good since it changed recently) to seek out lots of good info, layouts, topics and answers - most of the questions you will ask will have probably already been posted and will have many responses. The search engine just helps everyone from going back over the same topics several times. I use it before I am about to embark on spending hard earned cash or energy because there are so many personal reviews of products its well worth doing. For instance, I had made a rash purchase of some flush glazing for some coaches. I later searched them on RMWeb and found out that the glazing yellows and there is a much better product out there which I should have purchased! 

 

There will be many varied opinions (some express theirs stronger than others), loads of different ways of doing things, hundreds of product reviews and links each preferred by people from all over the world so pick and choose what suits you and what you want to/can achieve (and afford). Its your model, and how you do it is entirely up to you and you don't have to follow what everyone does, just because they say so. Don't be ashamed of first attempts - we have all been there, and there are hundreds in a similar situation. 

 

Enjoy, and look forward to seeing your modelling!!

 

Ian

[ColinK]

Welcome, a very good question to adk.

 

As for cutting, my preferred choice is a Stanley knife, using proper Stanley blades - but I do work in 00. I have recently tried the small knives with snap off blades (four for £1 from Poundland). They worked OK, provided you use lots of new blades.

 

As for glue, for card models I use high tack pva from Boyes Supermarkets, also available from Hobbycraft and craft stores. It seems to be a good balance between price and quick setting. For sticking glazing, ‘glue n glaze’ is a good choice, it costs a bit more but dries clear with less chance of making a mess.

 

Good luck with the modelling. If you would like to share some photos of what you have made, people on here will be happy to help you improve.

[doilum]

Personal choice, I have always used Xacto#2.I have multiple handles nd try to keep the freshest blade for best work, then as it blunts it gets relegated to other tasks.

[BR60103]

Has anyone found a project where, after you have blunted the point of the blade, you can use the remaining 11/16" that is still sharp?

[ianLMS]

Has anyone found a project where, after you have blunted the point of the blade, you can use the remaining 11/16" that is still sharp?

If its a stanley, i turn it around and blunt the other end! when that's blunt, I use it to scrape my spare wall tile & granite slab which i use to solder on, glue things and make sure wagons etc sit level. Then it ends up in a tub with 500 other blunt blades. I will seal it up when its full and dispose of it responsibly. Not sure if there is much scrap value in stanley blades!!!

 

If its a scalpel, i suppose it would make a good box opener!

 

Ian

[grahame]

I put my used blades in a bright yellow sharps bin I have for needles (that I inject with). I get them on prescription but you can buy them cheaply from a chemists (the bins). When full, it has a seal to close it up and you phone the council who arrange collection and disposal.

 

G

[sb67]

Hi Norski, I've built most of my structures on my layout using Metcalfe or scalescenes kits and these are my experiences.

I've used the cheap retractable knives from the pound shop, you get about 6 for a pound and so far haven't had any problems,

I make multiple passes when cutting, even just the printed paper I don't press hard and take a couple of cuts.

I also use UHU or a stick glue ( I found Tesco's to be the best) but I recently bought some Rocket card glue and that is fantastic.

If it's a small part to glue I put the glue on a scrap piece of card and use a the point of a cocktail stick to apply it to the model.

One thing that I thought was worth every penny were magnetic clamps from York Modelmaking, I also got some bigger ones from e bay, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Magnetic-Welding-Holders-SET-OF-4-Arrows-DIY-Metal-Work-Clamp-Swarf-Cleaner/202079621265?hash=item2f0ce25091:g:DywAAOSwKtVWu0UP, they are a bit bigger but are really good for keeping things square.

I painted the kits with matt Varnish (Wilkos) with a bit of black paint added, to tone them down a bit, after then weathered them with powders and washes.

Above all take your time and if you look at stuff on here you'll get plenty of tips and ideas.

When you're ready show us what you've built. Enjoy :-) 

Hope that's of some use.

Steve.