rue_d_etropal Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 The cost for Shapeways WSF models is based mainly on space used in their machines. It is thus relatively cheap to produce bigger scale models. I had noticed with one of my coach body designs that the O scale model was not much more expensive than the OO one. Going up togauge One, and the advantage was lost. So I thought , what if I remove roof from my coach design. Well in Gauge one, it came down by almost half(ending up abou 60%), and in O gauge it was cheaper than the OO one with a roof. The trouble with OO, is that the models are still pretty big, but the space inside is not enough to print another item, so is wasted. You pay for that wasted space. It might be possible to add something to inside, but not sure if it really saves that much. Removing the roof for OO does not have any significant reduction in cost. Smaller scales are significantly cheaper than OO. It has got me thinking, that the bigger scales might be a better market, and there is growing interest in O gauge. The only downside is having to fit a roof, but all that is needed is some thin cardboard. Obvious not so easy with more complex roofs, but for basic ones itis something that makes bigger scales more affordable. It might be possible to remove only a section of the roof, leaving curved ends in place. I have tried something similar with wagons, removing floor, and that helped price come down for a Gauge One wagon biy about 25%. It is something to consider. I am thinking I might offer a roofless version of my coaches, but only for the bigger scales. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted February 7, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 7, 2018 Can't you offer a version with and a version without roof, and let the market guide you as to which they buy in greater numbers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rue_d_etropal Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 not what I am getting at, just offering an alternative option. I had an inkling that it would make a difference, but not as much as it actually does. With the bigger scales many are prepared to build models, so adding a chassis and roof is a walk in the park for them, and the finer details can be added if required. . To a certain extent OO has got slurred because of all the quality r2r, so 3D prints look expensive to some, but it is not possible to reduce cost that much by removing roof. Much of what some say about 3D printing is not correct, mainly because of a lack of understanding on the process and how some companies such as Shapeways charge. I was using Shapeways before they introduced the current calculation, so have seen how it changed, and how it can be best used. My aim is to offer as many models as possible, in a variety of scales. Others might prefer to produce a small number of highly detailed models in only one or two scales. That is their choice, but as I hae found , you always get someone asking for a model in a differnt scale. If you can't do that, then you are missing a chance. With narrow gauge, there is a far bigger range of scales, and modellers will select a new scale if it suits them. 3D printing can feed that desire very easily. Standard gauge modellers seem to be far more 'conservative', and tend to follow a limited number of scale paths. If you are dependent on traditional model making companies, then that is understandable, but 3D printing can fill in the gaps between traditional scales. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire2865 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Well for my 2 cents. Recently designing a Gauge 3 loco to have the entire superstructure 3D printed, I came to the saddletank. A large object mostly hollow with chunky but reserved wall thickness. Printed in WSF btw. So I thought I could sprue the chimney into the tank hollow to save on some cost. Turned out the combination piece was a good chunk more expensive than the tank and chimney separately! Not truly understanding the logic there, I decided to forgo that idea and print all the components separately. So Im not sure if your idea really works after a certain scale factor. The saddle tank, btw, measures less than 8cm x 5cm x 12cm. Pretty close to an O scale item in terms of relative size and volume. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rue_d_etropal Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 One advantage of printing some detail items separately is that you can then choose to print in different material, which is not an option in larger scales. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Rixon Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 If you provided, in the same product, an unroofed body and a separate roof, would that work economically? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rue_d_etropal Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) Simple answer, no, or certainly not much. A roof on its own is a large chunk. I would hope that anyone contemplating O and G1 is willing to build a model, but maybe does not want to build a kit. A simple roof can be created from thin cardboard, not complex. A fully pannelled coach body would take a lot more effort, but if it is that cheap using 3D printing then it should get more interst. I am slowly working through my designs to include Oand G1 options, and will now be adding an extra one if possible. On the test with an O gauge coach, the price for a body with roof works out bout £100, without the roof between £50 and £60. It is a big saving. The coach with roof still has a big open space on bottom, so space is not enclosed. I wasn't expecting it to make such a difference. Leaving roof off on say a OO coach body would not make as much saving. Obviously this is only really applicable for simple roofs, and clerestory roofs would have to be in place. It might be ssible in som cass to remove part of a roof, leaving bowed ends or something similar. As I have a variety of coach designs I plan to experiment ad if there is a big saving will add roofless to choices. Edited February 8, 2018 by rue_d_etropal 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Annie Posted February 19, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19, 2018 I agree, - a roof is simple to make, it's the panelled sides and ends that are the difficult part. I think you are on to something and if you produced 4 and 6 wheel panelled coaches without roofs even I would pry my wallet open and buy one to try. Being a light railways modeller almost anything from the south of England would be fine by me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rue_d_etropal Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) I have some SECR coaches, will have a look at resizing those. I have just finished doing the LNER quads and quins up to G1. Will have to do some tests on roofless versions as well. This is one of the SECR 6 wheel coaches without roof. As converted for pushpull, but nothing that obvious. Also some similar coaches were converted to 4 wheelers. I think the ones on IOW railway are similar Edited February 19, 2018 by rue_d_etropal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Annie Posted February 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2018 For me the 6w SECR coaches would be prefect as a basis for my own devisings to suit my little 'what if' light railway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rue_d_etropal Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 Strictly speaking these were built prior to SECR forming, but are typical of late 19th century coaches, as liked by Colonel Stephens for his light railway empire. Some were 6 wheel, some 4 wheel. I will look at the other two coaches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Annie Posted February 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) The older the better really Simon. Pre-SECR rather than actual built by the SECR coaches are definitely the time period I'd be wanting. Just a thought. The underframes as a separate part could be of interest to a lot of people too. Edited February 21, 2018 by Annie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rue_d_etropal Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 The underframes I did design, but basic. Will have a look. There are also the Wisbech coaches. They would come out well in bigger scales. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Annie Posted February 25, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 25, 2018 Wisbech coaches would be very tempting, but I'd have to save my pocket money for a while to afford them in 'O' I would imagine. Basic underframes would be fine as I'm working in coarse scale 'O' so I would want anything I build to not look too different or finer than what I already have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rue_d_etropal Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 I did the chassis as a separate item, incorporated into the main coach design. This means it can be done combined or separate(I have found it is sometimes cheaper to do separate). The Wisbech coaches will need some thought, and testing to check how much roof can be removed. Getting requests for resizing to O several of my designs, so currently working through those. Some are easier than others, but once done, they are done, and then designs will be available from N up to G1. Roofless ones in O and G1(if possible) can then be added. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted February 25, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 25, 2018 Simon, Have you seen Mike Trice's GN coaches? They are printed as a "flat" kit rather than a complete body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rue_d_etropal Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) Designing kits doesn't interest me. Talk to some model railway kit manufacturers and they will say they are not as popular as they used to be.I am aiming at somewhere between r2r and kit/scratchbuilding. It is also easier to design for several scales if in one piece, and then not that difficult to resize/scale a model if asked to. I have also found that I can blend in parts of a coach, in one piece, but would have to be far morecertain if it was a kit, that the parts fitted together. From experience with a couple of designs with more than one part, it is not always that easy. Also cost wise with large scale, it would not be any cheaper to design it flat, possibly might even cost more. Edited February 26, 2018 by rue_d_etropal 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rue_d_etropal Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 Well, I have managed to find just how big I can go, and that is coaches no longer tha 65 cm. This is OK for most stuff upto gauge one, but one I have just done does not have buffers, as that just tipped it over the maximum. uckily most of what I plan to do is shorter. For the gauge 1 I have found that getting wall thickness down to 1mm , instead of 1.4mm(resulyts from simple resize of O scale) saves quite a bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rue_d_etropal Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 I have been upping the size of the SECR 6 wheelcoaches. By removing roof alone the saving in cost is not as muc as I hoped. Loooking at about £50-55 instead of £65-70. Just the body(roofless) is about £30-35 . As to whether that s enough of a saving I am not sure. I think the bodies on their own are worth the saving, as they could probably be fitted to Lima chassis. I even tried doing chassis separetly but in this case it worked out about the same, if not slightly more than together with body. I think the big savings are with the bigger coaches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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