Problem with Peco PL-11 side mounted point motors

[ba14eagle]

Ive looked through a few threads on here with questions regarding Peco point motors, but not found the answers im looking for. Ive also checked out Brian Lambert's Flashbang website.

 

On Baker Wood Bunker, ive only got 4 turnouts and have gone down the road of fitting them with Peco PL-11 side mounted point motors. These are switched using the Peco sliding contact levers, with power supplied by the aux output on my Hornby Elite controller, through a Peco PL-35 CDU.

 

The problem I have is that only 2 of the motors throw the turnouts correctly. The other 2 tend to bounce, meaning the points don't throw. I tried a fair amount of adjusting to put the situation right, but to no avail. I contacted Peco technical department about the problem. They suggested the Elite' power output isn't enough to power these motors, which I thought odd, as when tested, it showed up as being 15.8V.

So, I am now looking at using an alternative transformer and am drawn to the Gaugemaster, cased, transformers. But which one should I use? 16V or 24V - Im leaning toward the latter, but will this be too much for the cdu?

[Pete the Elaner]

I have had a quick look at the switch & I think these are your problem.

With a passing contact switch, it first energises the coils switching the point to the way it should already be set, which you don't want. If you continue to throw the switch, it will try to throw it the other way (which is what you want) but the CDU will not have had time to charge sufficiently.

In order to test this, you could either push the switch to neutral & hold it there for 2-3 seconds to let the CDU re-charge before continuing the throw.

Alternatively, you could switch it, then wait a few seconds before switching it back just far enough to re-energise the coil you want.

 

You could try it without the CDU, but this would cause arcing in the switch, which causes dirt build-up on the contacts & in extreme case, failure of the switch.

[Tony Teague]

I have a few of these in odd places where I could not get an old style Peco solenoid fitted and I have experienced 'bounce" with them.

What I found was that they are so light that unless they were fitted absolutely tightly to the side of the point, the plastic arm within the solenoid that moves the point could actually bounce off of the top of the point "throw" lever. I took the rather drastic action of gluing the two offending parts together with super glue - with 100% success and no other problems created!

Clearly you need to be VERY careful as to what is glued to what, but my conclusion was that this only happened because the PL-11 is so much flimsier that the old style PL-10.

 

In terms of the switches, I have in the past used the old Hornby levers which work the same way as the Peco ones and I have never experienced any problem with the double firing & speed of re-charging that Pete the Elaner refers to. I have found that when firing multiple points at once, the gauge of wire used to connect points to the switches and through to the CDU is very relevant and if you are going to be adding points in the future then I'd go for the largest CDU running at the highest voltage that you can run to! There is no down side to this, other than cost.

 

Tony

[10000]

Are you trying to throw 2 points simultaneously because a few years ago when I was in a workshop building layouts we tried the Peco PL35 and found it was incapable of firing 2 at the same time. Power supply mades no difference the only solution was a better CDU

[Hound Dog]

Recently tried Peco side mounted points using recommended DC voltage via Peco CDU with little success......switched to AC accessories outlet from an old Hornby controller and it works everytime........that said I think the general consensus is that the PECO CDU is pretty weak.

[ba14eagle]

Are you trying to throw 2 points simultaneously because a few years ago when I was in a workshop building layouts we tried the Peco PL35 and found it was incapable of firing 2 at the same time. Power supply mades no difference the only solution was a better CDU

 

I was, at first, trying to fire the points in pairs, but soon realised this wasnt going to happen, so now fire each individually.

I think I will try another cdu.

Edited February 9, 2018 by ba14eagle

[kevinlms]

I was, at first, trying to fire the points in pairs, but soon realised this wasnt going to happen, so now fire each individually.

I think I will try another cdu.

What power source are you using to the CUD? A few more volts will fix the problem.

[Tony Teague]

A good CDU ought to be able to fire 4 or 5 Peco solenoids; mine will fire 5 plus 2 or 3 relays simultaneously, but you do need maximum input voltage AND resasonably robust trigger wires - especially if the points are some distance from the CDU.

I use one of these: http://www.blocksignalling.co.uk/index.php/capacitor-discharge-unit-cdu1c-cdu2c-cdu4c (the big job!) and feed it at 24v DC. I use 24/.02 wire to trigger the solenoids.

 

Tony

[Barrie Hughes]

Is Peco PL11 surface mount  point motor suitable for Peco 0 gauge streamline points fitted with microswitch?

 

[Tony Teague]

No idea, but given the issues that people have had with OO points as above, I'd personally doubt it.

[RobR]

On 06/09/2020 at 14:50, Barrie Hughes said:

Is Peco PL11 surface mount  point motor suitable for Peco 0 gauge streamline points fitted with microswitch?

 

I couldn't get a PL11 to work with a peco 0 gauge point. However I've found a gaugemaster surface mounted point motor GMC-PM20 will throw the point. I haven't tried it with a microswitch though. 

RobR