B15nac Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 I see a picture of Hornbys R3452 Llanfair Grange in this months Hornby magazine. It looks like it still has no vacuum pump. But I think I will purchase one as I like the small tender in BR livery Regards Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7007GreatWestern Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Hi Neil, When you say it has "no vacuum pump" I guess you're referring to the spindle (which is connected to the crosshead by a triangular bracket) rather than the black cylindrical pump body (which is attached to the running plate)? If memory serves that was omitted from the recent 'Grange' release (eg 'Bucklebury Grange') but was present on the earlier Sander Kan models. Peter's Spares are showing a replacement Hornby 'Grange' valve gear set (part no. X9348) on eBay with the spindle present! It's easy to make your own spindle from appropriate n/s wire. I have done so with several Hornby 28xxs using two-part epoxy to attach the spindle to the bracket. Hope this helps. Andy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B15nac Posted February 13, 2018 Author Share Posted February 13, 2018 It looks like its all gone but it may just be the photo angle Kind regards Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 81C Posted February 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2018 Check their website out as they have annonced their release. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B15nac Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 They look nice Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B15nac Posted March 6, 2018 Author Share Posted March 6, 2018 From the pictures I've seen so far some comes with the vacuum pump an some doesn't it's a bit hit an miss. quality control looks to have been poor Kind regards Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted March 7, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2018 From the pictures I've seen so far some comes with the vacuum pump an some doesn't it's a bit hit an miss. quality control looks to have been poor Kind regards Neil Considering they are made at the Refined Factory and their QA is very hit and miss with all the loco's they produce for Hornby. Mine is missing the vacuum pump, but other than that it's a smooth runner straight from the box and nothing else fell off 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) Hello TBG Nice picture - but does the cab handrail needing pushing back into place under the cab roof? ....... their QA is very hit and miss with all the loco's they produce for Hornby. Mine is missing the vacuum pump, but other than that it's a smooth runner straight from the box and nothing else fell off Regards Ray Edited March 7, 2018 by Silver Sidelines Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted March 7, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2018 Hello TBG Nice picture - hut does the cab handrail needing pushing back into place under the cab roof? Regarfs Ray It has been, I've never had a Grange where one of the cab handrails hasn't need putting back into place at some point and I'm talking double digit numbers here. The current ice cube packaging has made things worse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B15nac Posted March 8, 2018 Author Share Posted March 8, 2018 I do like the look of them now that livery with small tender. I will be purchasing one I think Kind regards Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrock Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) Considering they are made at the Refined Factory and their QA is very hit and miss with all the loco's they produce for Hornby. Mine is missing the vacuum pump, but other than that it's a smooth runner straight from the box and nothing else fell off 6825_lh.jpg Fantastic picture. If only the loco body moulding was that of a Manor...the chassis, tender and livery are all otherwise correct!! Edited March 10, 2018 by Adrock Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Nice colour but can other readers confirm that the model is now produced minus both the vacuum pump spindle and the vacuum pump cylinder? Cheers Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Hi TBG Yes mine arrived with one of the handrails displaced. ...I've never had a Grange where one of the cab handrails hasn't need putting back into place at some point .... More seriously one of the buffers is bent over. How on earth does something like that pass QA? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B15nac Posted March 11, 2018 Author Share Posted March 11, 2018 What part of the vacuum pump is missing on yours all of it? Kind regards Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Hi Neil YES! All of it. What about yours? What part of the vacuum pump is missing on yours all of it?Kind regards Neil Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 12, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2018 Hi TBG Yes mine arrived with one of the handrails displaced. More seriously one of the buffers is bent over. How on earth does something like that pass QA? DSC03845.JPG You are assuming that there is some sort of QA process applied somewhere in the long line between factory work finished and the end customer taking the model out of its box when they get it home. I have more than a suspicion that in many cases apart from a possible visual 'once over' there is no post manufacture check at all until the model reaches you or, in some cases, the retailer testing it before selling it to you. How many retailers do you know who test a loco before you buy it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Agreed Perhaps it says more about the system used to assemble the models - maybe the quality of the staff or the way that they are paid and how they are pressured into fitting damaged parts? You are assuming that there is some sort of QA process applied ... Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B15nac Posted March 12, 2018 Author Share Posted March 12, 2018 I've not bought one yet I was just trying to find out if they had the vacuum pump fitted. Wonder why they seem to have left it off? Kind regards Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted March 12, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) I've not bought one yet I was just trying to find out if they had the vacuum pump fitted. Wonder why they seem to have left it off? Kind regards Neil Possibly the tooling went walkies, before it was returned from Sanda Kan or the Factory (Refined) didn't read the instructions properly Edited March 12, 2018 by toboldlygo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted March 12, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2018 Hi TBG Yes mine arrived with one of the handrails displaced. More seriously one of the buffers is bent over. How on earth does something like that pass QA? DSC03845.JPG In all seriousness, that buffer has been deliberately bent with a pair of pliers, more than likely by a worker wanting to go home after a long shift. I've seen it on a Grange I've acquired before - straightened up easily enough Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7007GreatWestern Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) I've not bought one yet I was just trying to find out if they had the vacuum pump fitted. Wonder why they seem to have left it off? Kind regards Neil I think the answer to your question lies in StationMaster Mike's post. These locomotives are being assembled in haste in a production line environment. The operatives may well even be paid 'piece work'. The problem with the vacuum pump spindle is that it requires the slidebars to be lined up with the running plate edge with greater accuracy than if the spindle isn't present. If it isn't lined up correctly the spindle either fouls the inside of the pump body causing drag on the motor or it drops out altogether, a situation that will be all too familiar to anyone who has taken these locos apart for remedial work. To make matters worse the Hornby Grange is very susceptible to 'drooping' cylinders and/or slidebars, a condition that results from the inadequately designed supports for both components. That makes it even more difficult to get the pump spindle to line up with the pump body. Here's a photo to show what I mean:- https://railsofsheffield.com/products/29974/Hornby-r3452-oo-gauge-br-4-6-0-llanvair-grange-6800-grange-class-locomotive It is possible with appropriate 'fettling' to get everything to line up, but it takes takes time and time is of course money. Hornby is also gambling on the fact that the bulk of its customers neither know nor care what a vacuum pump is. For the benefit of anyone who doesn't know, the crosshead driven vacuum pump was widely used on GWR 2 cylinder designs and worked like an inverted bicycle tyre pump. Whereas the bicycle pump pushes air into a tyre, the vacuum pump expels air from the locomotive brake system to help the Driver maintain the 25" Hg depression required to keep the train brakes in the 'release' position. The effectiveness of the pump depended on the speed at which the wheels were turning. The GWR system was ineffective below 15mph, so the driver would have to use the 'live steam' ejector to release the brakes from a standing start. Once above 15 m.p.h the crosshead driven pump would help maintain the vacuum against the inevitable leakages in 200+ yards of flexible hose and imperfect break cylinder seals. The driver would therefore not have to waste hard-won and expensive 'live steam' to do the same job. Andy. Edited March 13, 2018 by 7007GreatWestern 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 This is an earlier release, Frankton Grange, factory weathered. It has the vacuum pump and rod fitted but difficult to see behind the pipework that runs below the lower edge of the footplate. Also, I'm interested in getting one of the new release Granges in BR green to rename as Goodmoor Grange, 6838. I've got the plates for this one. 6838 had a smaller tender until close to withdrawal, as there are pics of it then in a very run down condition with a 4000 gal tender. There is a pic of 6838 with a smaller tender and late crest (condition I want) on RMweb here, http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/75801-Dapol-announce-n-gauge-grange-at-tings/ I'm not totally sure that the tender is a standard 3500 gal one though, as the plates either side of the coal space look somewhat larger. Now this could just be my eyesight but the Hornby website says "Originally the class were paired with Churchward 3,500 gallon tenders, many coming from the withdrawn ‘4300’ class locomotives, including four with modified higher sides and longer fenders and in time Collett’s own 3,500 gallon tenders were used." Could the tender in the pic be one of these 4 or is it a Collett 3500 gal one, like the Hornby model? Info gratefully received! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Gough Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Looks like a Churchward 3,500 tender, one of the earlier, flush riveted ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Thanks Nick, I do have a flush riveted tender body plus earlier underframe so I could get another Grange and use that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tarifa Posted March 16, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 16, 2018 Hornby Overton Grange (6879) and Paviland Grange (6845) do not have the vacuum pump spindle fitted to the crosshead extension but the cylinder is fitted tucked away behind the running plate piping but it is out of line with the crosshead. To my eyes the spindle if fitted would not be visible when in motion. Pitchford Hall (4953) however does have the vacuum pump assembly fully functional and is clearly visible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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