Fitting out The Shed [Was: Unconverted loft? Expensive shed?]

[Baby Deltic]

I had a 20 ft by 10 ft wooded workshop installed at the bottom of my garden for around £3000. I use it for my exhibition layout 'Sumatra Road' which can be setup under cover now.

[tender]

Do you know exactly why BC have a problem with a conventional wood outbuilding? Is it perhaps proximity to the house?

 

If I read it correctly, within 1 meter of boundary and over 15sqm.

[jamespetts]

If I read it correctly, within 1 meter of boundary and over 15sqm.

 

Indeed - that is the reason.

[Andymsa]

If I read it correctly, within 1 meter of boundary and over 15sqm.

As long as the exterior of any wood building is clad in a fire resistant material. You can build within 1 meter of the boundary where the faces of the sides boarders the boundary. The face away from boundary can be clad as you wish.

 

Andy

[jamespetts]

As long as the exterior of any wood building is clad in a fire resistant material. You can build within 1 meter of the boundary where the faces of the sides boarders the boundary. The face away from boundary can be clad as you wish.

 

Andy

 

Is there any disadvantage to having the shed clad entirely in cement composite weatherboards as far as you know?

[3 link]

Is there any disadvantage to having the shed clad entirely in cement composite weatherboards as far as you know?

The only disadvantage is to your wallet : )

 

Martyn.

[Andymsa]

Is there any disadvantage to having the shed clad entirely in cement composite weatherboards as far as you know?

I don't know about composite weather boards, I clad mine in metal similar to that what you get on industrial units. It was not the that expensive easy to install and a quick wipe with a damp cloth is all is needed and the surface is extremely hard wearing.

 

Andy

[jamespetts]

The only disadvantage is to your wallet : )

 

Martyn.

 

I already have an agreement from the shed people on the price and that they will take all necessary steps to procure that the building comply with building regulations, so they would not be entitled to charge me more for taking a step to ensure that the building comply with the regulations.

 

If there are no non-price disadvantages, cement composite weatherboards do seem to be potentially a good solution.

[Andymsa]

I added a photo of my shed in one of the previous posts

 

Andy

[jamespetts]

I added a photo of my shed in one of the previous posts

 

Andy

 

I noticed - that looks rather impressive.

[3 link]

I already have an agreement from the shed people on the price and that they will take all necessary steps to procure that the building comply with building regulations, so they would not be entitled to charge me more for taking a step to ensure that the building comply with the regulations.

 

If there are no non-price disadvantages, cement composite weatherboards do seem to be potentially a good solution.

I'm not on about whoever might charge you more, I meant it's expensive in the first place.

[big jim]

My move from the shed to garage is a go!

 

Roofer booked for a week on Monday and I’m spending the previous weekend removing the old garage roof for him, couple of days work for him and that’s the garage ready to have the big fold doors added then slowly begin to line it out and insulate the walls etc, a long term project that ill start a new thread about when I begin in anger

[jamespetts]

The shed people are proposing now to use 9mm Supalux cladding - does anyone have any experience of buildings constructed with this cladding?

 

Big Jim - best wishes for your garage project!

Edited April 17, 2018 by jamespetts

[Andymsa]

The shed people are proposing now to use 9mm Supalux cladding - does anyone have any experience of buildings constructed with this cladding?

 

Big Jim - best wishes for your garage project!

Do be careful that the product does not contain asbestos despite claims.

 

https://environtec.com/blog/supalux-all-that-glitters-is-not-asbestos-free/

 

Andy

[jamespetts]

I did see that - but looking at the article carefully, what it appears is being said is that the board, whilst appearing to be Supalux, is actually an imitation or similar which is contaminated with asbestos. Having researched the matter, Supalux appears to be well known and well regarded, and is recommended in many different places.

[jamespetts]

I wonder whether anyone has any views on the following question relating to windows: the full size windows would start 1m up from the floor. This would be lower than the OO gauge layout that I plan to have running along three walls, one of which would be the wall with the windows on it. I have asked the people who are to build the shed whether they can supply half height windows, but I am told that they can only provide either full height windows or relatively narrow high windows as shown in the attachment. Next to my workbench, I should still want a full height window for light maximisation purposes. These windows would all face north.

 

Thus, I can either have a shed with three identical windows along one side, but two of them would overlap with the fiddle yards, or a shed with two narrow, high windows and one large full sized window down the same side. I should be grateful for any views on what might be preferable.

Edited April 26, 2018 by jamespetts

[Buhar]

Have a look at the video just posted on "Wright writes" where Tony's large shed has windows where the lower portion is below the backscene height.  That said, I believe LB itself is not tight to the walls, allowing access for viewing and photography from both sides of the line.

[ianLMS]

Can they not fit velux windows in the roof instead, and have just the high level small windows at the ends/sides?

[73c]

Can they not fit velux windows in the roof instead, and have just the high level small windows at the ends/sides?

Velux windows are really better in a pitched roof to work effectively. Rain run off, ventilation etc. Might be possible in a Pent roof, if the angle is sufficient. 

[jamespetts]

Thank you for your thoughts. I do not think that roof lights would work in a roof that is only a slight angle off being flat, and I do not believe that they are offered in any event. The Little Bytham layout (which seems like a lovely layout) has a slightly different arrangement, with the layout a little way off the window, separated by a back scene: in my case, it would be fiddle yards next to the window.

[ianLMS]

As long as you can still access the whole window, the layout being slightly higher shouldnt be an issue. A fiddle yard wont require a backscene (unless its hidden like mine). Access to the window will be required to clear up the cobwebs, dead bugs and prevent mould. Any window that gets "trapped" will soon harbour things and condensation etc will attract the mould growth. I believe you've already said that direct sunlight wont be an issue, so thats not a consideration. 

[jamespetts]

Thank you for your response - that is helpful.

[Campaman]

I have windows in my shed that are lower than the layout height, I have installed roller blinds on them that drop down behind the layout.

[Sir TophamHatt]

Breathes deeply.............nope not going to get lured in again....

 

Shakes head and walks away......

Might be better to say something constructive... like why you think that.

Sorry for the neg.

 

Surely adding insulation in between the joists in the roof doesn't mean you're going to use it as a habitable room?

 

I have plans to board my loft properly, light it properly, insulate it properly, but I can't put any better stairs in than the ladder I have.

It won't be a habitable room, just somewhere that I can use to store things easily rather than the shambles it's turned into.

 

Would I think about informing the council? No. Will the council care? Probably not. But I understand from an external persons point of view, I'd be effectively turning it into a potential room. This is where H&S strays into madness. It's mad times we live in!

 

 

 

large temperature fluctuations probably don't help the layout either so keeping it stable might help as well.

Yet in another thread, people don't seem that bothered that their rooms went from 4C/5C up to 20C-25C in summer. Sorry I can't find the thread now

A difficult one.

 

 

 

I bought a Tiger Sheds Workshop for about £1800...

A great looking workshop.

I'd change the bulbs so they were daylight rather than warm white :/

 

Also, how are you hanging the A4 (?) pictures on the wall?

Edited April 28, 2018 by Sir TophamHatt

[jamespetts]

Having had - and, as far as I can now tell, overcome some issues relating to the Building Regulations of late in relation to my planned shed, I thought that it might be of use to those thinking of having a shed constructed to set out some of the things that I have discovered/inferred about how the Building Regulations seem to work in practice and what they actually state to avoid some of the uncertainty that I faced when looking to have my shed built. Many of the companies that actually build sheds do not seem fully to understand how the Building Regulations work.

 

Disclaimer: This does not constitute legal advice and should not be treated as such. I have no professional expertise in dealing with the Building Regulations. No liability will be accepted for any loss arising from relying on what I state here. If you need legal advice on this topic, consult a solicitor specialising in the Building Regulations.

 

Where to find the Regulations

 

The Building Regulations 2010 (the latest at the time of writing) can be found in full here on the government's legislation website. The Building Regulations are secondary legislation, made by a government minister, not by Parliament. The Act of Parliament that empowers the government minister to make the Building Regulations is the Building Act 1984. That can be found here. As we will see, there are some important bits that are in the Building Act 1984, not the Building Regulations.

 

Building regulations and planning control distinguished

 

Building Regulations are a totally different thing from planning control. Planning control did not exist at all before the Town and Country Planning Act 1947 (which has been replaced and amended several times). Building regulations date back to the Great Fire of London.

 

Building regulations are rules about the quality of buildings. If a building meets the regulations, is exempt from them, or the regulations are waived, it may be built.

 

Planning control is about state control of what may be built where. It is not about rules, but about policy. There is a general prohibition on building anything that is subject to planning control without the state's permission ("planning permission").  Whether that permission is granted depends, not on any rules, but on the policies of the local planning committees. It is a matter of discretion, not of right. However, there are a number of exceptions to the requirement to obtain planning permission. Several of those exceptions relate to outbuildings. See the government website here for more information.

 

Building regulations and small detached outbuildings

 

Some types of building are exempt from the Building Regulations. The whole of Schedule 2 deals with exemptions from the Building Regulations. Regulation 9 of the Building Regulations states that a building of any description mentioned in Schedule 2 is exempt from the Regulations. Thus, Schedule 2 just contains a long list of descriptions of sorts of buildings.

 

The main relevant part for garden sheds is class 6 (in a later version now called "class e") of Schedule 2. This is worth quoting in full:

 

 

 

Small detached buildings

1.  A detached single storey building, having a floor area which does not exceed 30m2, which contains no sleeping accommodation and is a building—

(a)no point of which is less than one metre from the boundary of its curtilage; or

(b)which is constructed substantially of non-combustible material.

2.  A detached building designed and intended to shelter people from the effects of nuclear, chemical or conventional weapons, and not used for any other purpose, if—

(a)its floor area does not exceed 30m2; and

(b)the excavation for the building is no closer to any exposed part of another building or structure than a distance equal to the depth of the excavation plus one metre.

3.  A detached building, having a floor area which does not exceed 15m2, which contains no sleeping accommodation.

 

(For reference, "curtilage" means the area of land around and including a house or other building). Assuming that nobody is intending to build a nuclear bunker in their gardens, paragraphs 1 and 3 are the relevant parts.

 

Paragraph 3 means that detached outbuildings of less than 15 square meters are exempt if they have no sleeping accommodation. This is relatively simple.

 

Paragraph 1 is slightly more complex (and this was the part that caused the confusion in my case). This provides that detached outbuildings of less than 30 square meters which contain no sleeping accommodation and are either "constructed substantially of non-combustible material" or no closer than 1m from the boundary of a neighbour's land are exempt.

 

The "point of which is less than one metre from the boundary of its curtilage" is simple enough when the word "curtilage" is understood. The more difficult part is what it means for a building to be constructed "substantially of non-combustible material". Being constructed of "substantially non-combustible material" allows a detached outbuilding bigger than 15 square meters but smaller than 30 square meters in area to be built less than 1m from the boundary without having to comply with building regulations.

 

There is no official definition of this, and there have not (at the time of writing, to my knowledge) been any cases heard in court that set a precedent as to what this phrase means. The best that we can do is to try to work it out from the words used. It is probably better to err on the side of caution to avoid ending up being in violation of the Building Regulations. The important word seems to be "substantially". The building must be constructed "substantially of non-combustible material". In other words, the amount of combustible material used must be insubstantial. I imagine what the framers of this legislation had in mind in terms of insubstantial amounts of combustible material was something like a brick building with wooden window frames, doors, skirting boards, etc.. I doubt that any building with any wooden cladding, framing, joists floor or ceilings would be counted as being constructed "substantially of non-combustible material". That is because all of those things are substantial parts of a building and are made of wood, a combustible material.

 

Most sheds/garden rooms will thus probably not be "constructed substantially of non-combustible material". Remember, these regulations ultimately date back to (and were enacted originally because of) the Great Fire of London. Although a huge amount has been added and amended since then, the basic ideas (structural integrity in Part A and fire resistance in Part B) are likely to have remained the same. The big new idea after the Fire was to prevent the spread of fire from one building to the next so engulfing a whole city in an inferno as happened in 1667. That is why a building must either be very small, non-combustible or comply with regulations a whole section of which (Part B) is intended to prevent the spread of fire. As we will see, this is the part that the local authorities tend to be really interested in in the case of garden sheds.

 

Waiver

 

However, that does not mean that all garden rooms will in practice have to be built to the same standards and specifications as a house. This is because the local authority has the power to waive - selectively or wholesale - the application of the Building Regulations to a particular building if "a requirement in building regulations would be unreasonable in relation to the particular case". This is provided for by Section 8 of the Building Act 1984.

 

Precisely how local authorities use this power in practice is outside my knowledge. However, in my case, the building surveyor's office has indicated that it is content that the building be constructed with timber framing, floorboards and joists (with Supalux cladding and rock wool insulation between the inner and outer layers of cladding). From the e-mails that I have seen, it seems that they would have been content for the Supalux to have been used only on the walls near the boundary, but the shed company is going to use it on all of the walls, and I am happy with that, as it is lower maintenance than timber and likely to last longer, as it is not susceptible to rot.

 

However, the local authority in my case (the London Borough of Newham) still wanted a Building Regulations application (albeit the simpler of the two types - a basic "notification" rather than "full plans") to be submitted, and a building surveyor would still have to come and inspect the works in progress to make sure that it is compliant. This was not something that the people building my shed seemed to be used to (and it might be that different local authorities take a more relaxed view of this - I do not know), however, the building surveyor explained this to me on the basis that it is necessary for them to check that the building really is being built the way that the people who are building the shed say that it will be built (with the fireproof cladding near the boundary, etc.).

 

Waiver seems to be a big source of confusion: from what I have seen, in the case of garden sheds/rooms, lots of people seem to think that the things that will satisfy the building surveyors that Part B (control of fire) of the Building Regulations have been complied with is the the same as the building being exempt. It is not: although the local authority may waive lots of requirements (such as foundation depth: the building control surveyor in my case indicated that he would not require foundations to be built to a depth of 1m, "just what is reasonable") that would otherwise apply for, e.g. a house, in the case of a shed of this sort, unless the building really is built of, e.g., concrete, there will have to be some degree of Building Regulations compliance.

 

Practically

 

Probably the most sensible course of action for anyone thinking of having a shed constructed is to contact the local authority's Building Control department before contracting to have a shed built, find out what they would require (including by way of application), then do not hand over any money or sign (or otherwise agree to) any contract unless and until the people building the shed clearly agree in writing to do the exact things that the local authority say that they require.

 

This is likely to be of particular importance where the people building the shed believe - incorrectly - that, e.g., using a fireproof cladding means that the building is exempt and that no application needs to be made. In fact, it is not exempt, and you will need a building control certificate if you ever sell the house - you might also find yourself being required to demolish the building if the building surveyor finds that it is non-compliant (if, for example, you have an extension built and the building surveyor has to visit for that).

 

---

 

I hope that this is helpful. I thought that it might be worthwhile to set this out here, in part to repay the great assistance that I have received from others on this forum in relation to track plans and other matters.

Edited April 29, 2018 by jamespetts