Laying track on paper templates

[Junctionmad]

I know we discussed this before , in the past I’ve sinply PVA’ed the template permanently under the track and Ballasted , but I used light card which suffered no ill effects from the PVA.

 

This time given the quantity I would like to use conventional ink jet paper

 

I’m a bit concerned about it’s reaction to PVA

 

I suppose I’ll just have to lay a test piece

 

But in the meantime any one have any experiences

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[Argos]

Personally I use spray mount (cheaper equivalent), this gives a couple of seconds to adjust the template before sticking firmly.

 

In the past I got into a bit of a mess as the paper template distorted slightly in the wet pva.

Also harder to get completely flat.

 

Horse for courses though, whatever works for you.

[Junctionmad]

my concern is also when ballasting with PVA , will that distort the already secured paper template and dislodge the track ?

[dasatcopthorne]

my concern is also when ballasting with PVA , will that distort the already secured paper template and dislodge the track ?

 

Guys.

 

I have always glued my templates down with good quality PVA. It seems to have less water in it. The template does bubble a little but then shrinks back to original size.

 

I then glue wood sleepers down with Revell Contacta Liquid Special / Uhu.

 

When ballasting I have never had any problem whatsoever with the PVA joint.

 

By the way, I glue ballast with 50/50 diluted water based Matt Varnish. It doesn't discolour the ballast and doesn't harden off so much. Add a little IPA to the mixture and pre mist the ballast with water/IPA before dropping in the varnish mixture.

 

Best of luck.

 

Dave.

Edited February 16, 2018 by dasatcopthorne

[Gordon A]

I have glued a paper template down with silver Pritt stich, then stuck wooden (Ply) sleepers down using the same glue.

 

I then ballasted using Deluxe Glues Ballast Glue.

 

Everything is stuck down OK and solid.

 

Gordon A

[Park]

I have used double sided tape to fasten the plan down to some gash ply when building a point for a friend. He then carefully remove it from the board and fastened down, not sure what with though. The sleepers are fastened down with PVA

[ikcdab]

Just resurrecting this one. On my test track, I tried spray mount and it's ok. Not the cheapest option if doing a large area and repositioning can be tricky, but not impossible.

On the real thing, I am going to try pva brushed thinly onto the underlay. Then just gently press the (dry) template down on top and leave. I don't anticipate much distortion.

I have then used double sided tape to attach my copperclad sleepers, but after a few months I am finding they are coming loose in places. Maybe it wasn't good enough quality.

[gordon s]

Is there a reason for you wanting to stick the templates down? Will you be building track/pointwork in situ? I prefer to lay the template on the board and then drill through one of the rails every 2-3" with a 2mm drill. Once the template is removed, it then a simple job to run a pencil line through the holes. That suits the way I lay my cork underlay. 

 

If you want to use a wider underlay, that set the trackbed width in Templot to the right dimension and then drill through the track bed line rather than the rail.

 

I was always concerned about paper being glued to the board without distortion and then another coat of glue on top to glue the underlay down. 

 

Its a good to hear that perhaps my fears were unfounded.

Edited February 29, 2020 by gordon s

[johndon]

A bit more expensive than paper but, if you use Templot, Tim Horn can do this for you:

 

[brossard]

I have decided to leave my 7mm turnouts on the paper backing.  I glue wooden timbers to the template using Tacky Glue (looks like PVA but dries with a rubbery consistency and is clear).

 

My problem is that the area of the turnout with slide chairs is weak, even when CA is used to glue the rail to the chairs.  Leaving the backing on provides a measure of reinforcement.

 

Here's a couple I made recently:

 

 

The middle turnout is Peco modified with better tiebars (JLTRT) and reduced blade spacing (28mm).

 

I haven't laid any track yet.  I intend to use Woodland Scenics foam underlay and fix that along with the track on top with Tacky Glue.

 

John

 

[martin_wynne]

5 hours ago, johndon said:

A bit more expensive than paper but, if you use Templot, Tim Horn can do this for you:

 

 

Hi John,

 

That looks amazingly impressive. But I'm puzzled by the practicalities.

 

If you build pointwork directly on that, or directly attach pre-built pointwork, you can't have any proper ballast shoulder or cess. The maximum ballast shoulder will be the thickness of the timbers. That's fine across the six-foot and in yards, but not alongside running lines.

 

On the prototype the underlying formation is prepared with a top slope of typically 1:20 for drainage into the cess, to typically 15ft trackbed width between the cess for a single track. The ballast is then spread on top of that:

 

 

If you attach a suitable roadbed to permit ballast and cess such as above to be modelled, you are covering up the expensively printed track plan. 

 

It would surely be better to include the trackbed edges and/or cess in the Templot DXF export file, and have it laser printed onto the roadbed material, such as Sundeala fibreboard, cork, balsa wood, or whatever:

 

 

You can then cut the roadbed pieces to the printed trackbed edges:

 

 

For a means of locating pre-built pointwork onto the roadbed/baseboard, I still prefer my snipped-off veneer pins -- see my old post at:

 

 https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/3422-eastwood-townand-then-there-were-four/&do=findComment&comment=788820

 

To locate pieces of roadbed, Templot can print target marks at known locations, as part of the background shapes.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited March 1, 2020 by martin_wynne
photo added

[johndon]

10 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

 

That looks amazingly impressive. But I'm puzzled by the practicalities.

 

 

Since that photo was taken, the plywood has been trimmed so the edges are much closer to the track itself but, as this photo below shows at the real location, there is no ballast shoulder:

 

[Andy Reichert]

 

I don't need to use paper templates very often. But I do use a thin matte Mylar sheet as a permanently attached base for my own hand built turnouts.  It does make the finished turnout extremely dimensionally stable and gives it enough strength to make it much safer to pick up and handle during assembly and prior to installation, whether you use glued or soldered construction.

 

As you can see, the Mylar is translucent, so if you do have to use a printed template, it is just as easy to lay sleepers to sleeper patterns as it is using paper alone. You merely lay the Mylar over the paper template and the printing shows through clearly. Although almost impossible to tear or stretch, Mylar is easily cut with ordinary scissors. So the base can be trimmed around the edges of the sleepers to allow for mounting the finished turnout on a shouldered track bed. Ballasting can be done before or in situ as the base sheet can have the ballast glued to it.

 

Andy

 

PS. Yes I just used a handy part built HO turnout as an example. But the process works just as well for 00, EM and P4.

 

 

[Andy Reichert]

 

Just found a picture of a turnout that was ballasted onto the Mylar prior to being installed on the layout. Mylar is waterproof, so most methods of gluing down ballast won't damage it.

 

It's a lot easier to work on assembling and detailing a turnout on a bench or desktop, than trying to do that at arms length onto a layout location.

 

Andy