The Nth Degree Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 I recently conducted some research into Z gauge and bought some locos to have a look at – the typical Marklin, AZL and Rokuhan products. I recently sold the AZL and Rokuhan locos on ebay, but something kept me from selling the Marklin locos, so I'm thinking of building a little layout for them, if I have time. Before I start, however, I don't have a clue about German railways and have a few questions. I have the German Krokodil E94 heavy freight loco with a train of 5 fuel tank wagons, but would these run with a brake van, and which one would it be? I also have the general purpose E44, which I will buy some coaches to run behind it, but again I don't know which. I would like the smaller 4-wheel type, as the layout will not be big and it will only be a local train service. I understand the locos are described as 'Epoch 4' but the coaches I would like to use are 'Epoch 3'. Could I get away with this? As for the layout itself, I'm thinking of a small lake-side station with a passing siding. Mountains in the background, perhaps a tunnel mouth into the fiddle yard. Certainly nothing fancy as I won't have the time. I'll choose some appropriate kit buildings of a small station, a hotel maybe, a few outbuildings. If someone could answer my questions above, I'll work on a trackplan. Thanks in advance, Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michl080 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Steve, nice idea. The German railway system never had dedicated brake vans. There are actually some freight wagons with the so called "Bremserhaus" which means brakemans cab. It was common practive until the 1950s to have some of these cabins manned to actuate the brake on that wagon. Very labor intensive, so pressure brake systems took over soon. In EP3, remote controlled brakes were standard, most brakemans cabins were removed. A E94 with 5 fuel wagons is a simple challenge for that heavy machine. It can certainly handle a small amount of four- or eight wheel tanks wagons even if they have no brakes at all. E44 have been in use from 1932 to 1991, so they were pulling everything that was in use in this long period. At the end of EP3, four wheel coaches were not very common. Typical coaches between EP3 and EP4 would be the so called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbau-Wagen They were rebuild prussian wagons. There were 6- and 8-wheeled versions. For a small layout, a E44 with four 6-wheel Umbauwagen would only be 311mm long. The transition from EP3 to EP4 didn't go very fast. Engines and also coaches were only repainted at scheduled service. There was a mixture of old and new paint schemes and numbers for several years. You layout plan sound nice. Let's see more ... best regards from sunny southern Germany, Michael 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted February 13, 2018 Author Share Posted February 13, 2018 Thanks Michael, much appreciated. I could get a few more tank wagons for the Krokodil, maybe a bogie tank at the front. I will also have a look out for Z gauge 6-wheelers too. Thanks again! Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold D9020 Nimbus Posted February 14, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 14, 2018 Worth pointing out that the 6-wheeled umbauwagen always ran in close-coupled pairs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 This is an overly-simplistic plan of my idea, purely for illustrative purposes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michl080 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 (edited) Worth pointing out that the 6-wheeled umbauwagen always ran in close-coupled pairs. :-) The good thing with rules: there is always an exception... http://www.voba-medien.de/assets/images/DB-X-E94-039-4-PZug-B3yge-Bf-Geislingen-800-523.jpg Only a link, I don't have the copyright for that picture... This is a train that just came down the Geislinger Steige bringing pupils to school But Nimbus is right. Normally 6-wheeled Umbauwagen come always in pairs. This picture shows a very special train. There are also pictures of the E94 pushing a freight train uphill at the Geislinger Steige with a single coach behind it. Michael Edited February 14, 2018 by michl080 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonwis Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 I agree with the comments about 4-wheelers. These did not really survive into Epoch IV in western Germany. E44 (after 1969 class 144) and E94 (after 1969 194) were active for many years, right up to the 1980s so hauled modern vehicles. If I get time I will post some photos of an Inter Rail trip I did to Bavaria in the early 1980s specifically to see the 'Altbauelloks' (old electrics) of classes 118, 144 and 194 which were concentrated in Bavaria near neighbour states. At that time coaches on regional services were either Umbauwagen or silver fish. From the trip cited above, I have photos of 144s on trains of just 2 silverfish, so eminently suitable for a compact layout. I also have one shot of a 194 on 10 short bogie tankers. No brake vans were used, but when hauling tanker wagons, electric locomotives usually had the front pantograph up not the rear one, to reduce the risk of sparks from the back panto nearest the wagons from causing something nasty... . 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSB Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Why not simply buy locos in Era 3 livery? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfaFoxtrot Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Perhaps worth mentioning that the Marklin 6-wheel Umbauwagen, which at one time were sold in fixed pairs, have quite a high rolling resistance on curves. Problem is most acute with steam hauled but electric and diesel also have their limits, albeit higher. Definitely worth experimenting before committing to too many and keep the wheels clean and axles lightly oiled.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold D9020 Nimbus Posted March 9, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 9, 2018 Perhaps worth mentioning that the Marklin 6-wheel Umbauwagen, which at one time were sold in fixed pairs, have quite a high rolling resistance on curves. Problem is most acute with steam hauled but electric and diesel also have their limits, albeit higher. Definitely worth experimenting before committing to too many and keep the wheels clean and axles lightly oiled.. A typical branch line train would be 4 6-wheel umbauwagen. The only case of a 4-wheel coach in era IV West Germany I'm aware of would be the use of a single Donnerbusche on the Falls-Gefrees line in Bavaria until the very early 70s. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 2mmMark Posted March 11, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 11, 2018 I came across a nice little station when I was touring on the Rhine in 1990. Emmelshausen was an intermediate station on the Simmern-Boppard branch but the line was truncated in the 1960s at Emmelshausen, leaving a neat little 3 turnout terminus, a loop and one siding. These are scans from 35mm prints so the quality isn't brilliant. It was also evening and the light was going. Unfortunately I didn't see any trains but I believe it was operated by a BR212 & a Silverfish push-pull coach. I saw this combination at Boppard earlier in the day. As can be seen, there's evidence of freight working too. I drew a track plan and as soon as I can locate it, I'll scan it in and add it here. It would be easy to adapt to a through station. Mark 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 2mmMark Posted March 11, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 11, 2018 And here is the plan I sketched with a view to building a layout. Mark 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin1985 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 And here is the plan I sketched with a view to building a layout. emm_plan.jpg Mark Thats a really nice little prototype Mark - very modellable! Were you thinking of Z or N when you sketched it out? Its a very different landscape, but same basic track layout, as I was planning for my little Z project. Justin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSB Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) Some more information on Emmelshausen over the years here:- http://www.hunsrueckbahn.info/eingang.htm Edited March 26, 2018 by HSB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted March 26, 2018 Author Share Posted March 26, 2018 And here is the plan I sketched with a view to building a layout. emm_plan.jpg Mark That is a design with a lot of layout potential. I really like the tree-lined back staging. It could be something I could switch to, considering this is something small to incorporate the leftover research stock I have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 2mmMark Posted March 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 28, 2018 (edited) Thats a really nice little prototype Mark - very modellable! Were you thinking of Z or N when you sketched it out? Its a very different landscape, but same basic track layout, as I was planning for my little Z project. Justin I had thoughts of building it in finescale N 1:160. Z was out of the picture at the time as I didn't know much about it and the necessary stock was not available. Now the correct stock is available (at a price!) and good control is achievable, it would make a little gem of a model but I must resist the temptation as I have enough projects as it is. Mind you the German web site Howard mentioned does show a lot more interesting information... I did return from Germany with a Marklin 0-6-0 for 2mm narrow gauge use. At the time (August 1990) the Pound was strong against the Deutschmark so the loco only cost me the equivalent of £27. The goods shed is particularly nice with all the various materials incorporated. Possibly it's been patched up over the years and was originally a "fachwerk" building. I do have a German project up my sleeve but it's somewhat whimsical and awaiting the arrival of some items ordered from the UK and Japan. I expect the latter are in the Royal Mail's "pay us 8 quid to delay your mail and charge VAT" shed. Hopefully I'll be ready to "rokuhan & roll" after Easter. Mark Edited March 28, 2018 by 2mmMark 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmporiaSub Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Talking of Emmelshausen..... My trip up the branch in the early 1980's! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 2mmMark Posted April 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 1, 2018 Talking of Emmelshausen..... My trip up the branch in the early 1980's! That's just like the type of train I saw at Boppard. I would have taken a lot more pictures but I was on my last roll of film before we flew home the following day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted April 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 1, 2018 Sherry and I had lunch in Boppard last October, but sadly we arrived and departed by boat...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Talking of Emmelshausen..... My trip up the branch in the early 1980's! Staying off topic; I'm not to hot on German Railways, what's the engine working with those coaches? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bimble Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Staying off topic; I'm not to hot on German Railways, what's the engine working with those coaches? Thanks It looks to be one of the variants of the V100, that became Classes 211/212/213 DB V100 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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