Another Challenge ?

[Dagworth]

It's going to be interesting, I've put my name down as part of a team that I've mostly not met yet! Having followed some of the other team members work here and elsewhere and having worked on many exhibitions and multiple layouts with the "team leader" I'm looking forward to it. Just got to hope we get accepted and that I can be available for the times needed.

 

Andi

[MRDBLUE17]

Hi All,

 

I’m very much hoping our team gets picked, like Andi has said we all sort of know each other through our own layouts but have never come together as a team. We’ve got a lot of skills between us and similar interests so I think it will be an exciting project and fun to be part of,

 

Cheers

Mark

[Liam]

It's going to be interesting, I've put my name down as part of a team that I've mostly not met yet! Having followed some of the other team members work here and elsewhere and having worked on many exhibitions and multiple layouts with the "team leader" I'm looking forward to it. Just got to hope we get accepted and that I can be available for the times needed.Andi

Surprised you didn't put your name down as a team leader Andi, you could have built a smaller version of Ravensclyffe, and am sure the network of modellers in the Cheltenham area would help you out.

[Dagworth]

Surprised you didn't put your name down as a team leader Andi, you could have built a smaller version of Ravensclyffe, and am sure the network of modellers in the Cheltenham area would help you out.

If I was team leader I'd end up pulling my hair out, I'll leave that to a man who can't do that

 

Andi

[Jeff Smith]

Huw - I hope this works out to satisfy your imagined outcome but I somehow think this docudrama will be more drama than documentary. To be sold to a mainstream channel it will need something to interest a reality show type audience, otherwise it will end up on an obscure documentary type channel. Cooking challenge shows work because lots of people cook so can understand the difficulties. How many people understand how to build and site a signal box or wire a layout or create realistic scenery unless modellers themselves. As a parallel example, my wife can spend hours knitting a sweater as a present for someone, when given over someone else will say that's nice can you make one for me as though it is something knocked up in just an hour or so.....

Edited February 20, 2018 by Jeff Smith

[Huw Griffiths]

I am not always quiet, and I certainly am not a perfectionist. I do know what works, and would object if I found something I knew would not work, or at least there was a chance it would not work.

KISS probably sums my approach pretty well. I do experiment, and not all my experiments are successful, but you learn more when something goes wrong, than when it works perfectly first time.

 

Hi Huw

 

From the information given by the TV company, they will be supplying the baseboards, track etc so I don't think there is room for too much pre-planning. Part of the process is going to be how we achieve to build a layout within the competition's framework with the goods we are given. So watching us discuss what , how, why, where and when, is all part of the TV show.  It will stop the club that has spent 20 years building their GWR BLT tuning up with a near finished effort  and making out they built it in 9 days. With our team I envisage the most pre-planning we can do is allocate a team member to be the lead on, track planning, electrics, scenery, etc so we all have a specialist role with the others acting as support when we undertake that aspect of the layout build.

 

I am not a perfectionist, and in a challenge like this the best effort in the time frame is the best we can hope for. A strong team member who can say "That is good enough" is needed.

 

In fairness, I can see both extremes here - but then this might not come as too much of a surprise to anyone who knows much about my background.

 

For a number of years, I was an instrumentation technician in a university civils dept.. A lot of this was about setting up transducers (especially strain gauges) and electronic instruments to take accurate (and often repeatable) measurements.

 

I don't want to bore everyone with loads of tedious details - but strain gauges are often tiny and require some rather exacting routines to correctly install them and set them up. The wires connecting them to the outside world are also tiny (certainly at the gauge end) and require high quality soldering.

 

I also used loadcells and displacement transducers for other measurements - with all of these transducers usually connected to dataloggers. All the transducers needed to be accurately aligned - in the correct place and pointing exactly the right way - and there were often some very specific procedures required in order to calibrate them to get usable test data. All of this data would usually need to be transferred to a PC - and converted into a form which could be fed into a spreadsheet program.

 

With all of this care needing to be taken when "hooking up" transducers, you might imagine that all the wires would look really attractive - if you could see it at all. In practice, of course, this would not be the case - with a lot of use of tape, cable ties etc to try and prevent everything getting tangled up.

 

There would also be the little matter of trying to get all this stuff done in a limited time - so (whisper it quietly) some corners would need to be cut - but they'd need to be the correct corners - and they could only be cut so far if everything were to work.

 

For example, if you're using different loadcells or displacement transducers on different tests, you could (in theory) redo a load of solder joints on each transducer's cable, every time you changed the configuration. In practice, of course, we'd have the same type of connectors (wired the same way) on each loadcell or each displacement transducer - and plug them into a "patchbay" type box. As long as we knew the power supplies were stable (and predictable), we could use the same calibration factors for given transducers for a certain length of time (but before a test, we might, for example, use calibration blocks of known dimensions to check the calibration of displacement transducers, rather than completely recalibrate them all for every test specimen).

 

 

Returning to railway modelling, I'd imagine there might sometimes be elements of experimentation and "that'll do" from the same people, building the same layouts. Initially, they might test-assemble the key parts of a layout, to check that everything basically works - perhaps do some test running, check clearances etc. Once they're satisfied that things work, they might revisit different bits in turn - properly install a scenic section (possibly reworking some bits, so they look better) - neaten up a bit of wiring - that sort of thing. However, the chances are that this will only happen when they've got rather more time available than they might have at first.

 

Some people might still think of this as the same layout - some might feel justified in viewing the initial and final versions as effectively different layouts.

 

 

Actually, I'm not just talking about layouts here. Over the years, many of us have tried building our own locos, rolling stock or whatever else - and, however much we might wish to get everything "spot on", compromises are often required to allow us to complete anything. Also, a number of parts might initially need to be thrown together, only to be reworked at a later date to get them "right", if and when time allows. (One project I'm working on now is a bit like this.)

 

To be honest, I suspect that a lot of modelmaking involves a compromise between the perfection that some people crave - and the cut corners that are often required to allow things to get built in the first place (especially in a restricted time).

 

Anyway, let's get back to the trains.

 

 

Huw.

Edited February 25, 2018 by Huw Griffiths

[Huw Griffiths]

Huw - I hope this works out to satisfy your imagined outcome but I somehow think this docudrama will be more drama than documentary. To be sold to a mainstream channel it will need something to interest a reality show type audience, otherwise it will end up on an obscure documentary type channel. Cooking challenge shows work because lots of people cook so can understand the difficulties. How many people understand how to build and site a signal box or wire a layout or create realistic scenery unless modellers themselves. As a parallel example, my wife can spend hours knitting a sweater as a present for someone, when given over someone else will say that's nice can you make one for me as though it is something knocked up in just an hour or so.....

 

You're making a number of valid points here - but, in all honesty, I've never harboured any "Fantasy Island" style visions either.

 

To be honest, I'm not expecting a full blown documentary - or anything else "over the top" - I don't think anyone is.

 

I can imagine a lot of aspects of builds etc being hinted at - I can also imagine certain amounts of friction / tension (some of it being shown or even exaggerated emphasised for the benefit of ratings viewers). No problem.

 

Ultimately, of course, the real opportunity I can see with series like this is to demonstrate that railway modelling is a hobby which can (and should) appeal to "ordinary" people  - and to clearly show that the sort of people who are interested in railway modelling are not too far removed from a lot of people who have never considered it as a hobby.

 

Manufacturers (and magazine publishers) of course, will almost certainly be looking to use this series (and any others on similar themes) as a way of promoting their wares - I could see them seeing it as a form of advertising (and nothing wrong with that).

 

However, there might also turn out to be other spinoff benefits which might be able to be reaped. Of course, there might not - but I see no harm in using any opportunities presented to further the hobby.

 

 

Huw.

[PatB]

Railways in general do seem to be enjoying something of an upsurge of interest in TV Productionland at the moment, and most of the "documentary" (ie non-drama) material seems to be fairly sympathetic in its coverage. I would tend to see this as a generally good thing for railway related hobbies.

 

Can anyone point to a genuine case of a non-drama, railway interest program that was snide in its treatment of the subject? Proper programs that is, not 30 second local news grabs. Whilst my knowledge of what has gone on in the UK over the last couple of decades is, I'll admit, incomplete, I can't think of any. So why the immediate pessimism that seems to be the default setting of so many?

 

And bear in mind that I'm well aware of negative stereotypes. I spent my time in secondary school keeping very quiet about my interest as a matter of survival, and I've been cagey about going public ever since. Nonetheless, I don't think special interest program makers have borne much responsibility for this state of affairs.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

One question comes to mind.................

 

Who owns the finished layout?

 

The production company - probably not although they might retain some promotional rights.

 

If a club puts in a team then I guess it will belong to the club, but what if it's a group of strangers thrown together via a forum like this? If the layout is a good one it might cause friction if the six group members live far apart. Who gets to keep the layout then?

 

Not being at all negative - just thinking ahead.

[Stubby47]

One question comes to mind.................

 

Who owns the finished layout?

 

 

 

Whomever has the most forgiving partner...

[Clive Mortimore]

One question comes to mind.................

 

Who owns the finished layout?

 

The production company - probably not although they might retain some promotional rights.

 

If a club puts in a team then I guess it will belong to the club, but what if it's a group of strangers thrown together via a forum like this? If the layout is a good one it might cause friction if the six group members live far apart. Who gets to keep the layout then?

 

Not being at all negative - just thinking ahead.

Not me, no more room.

 

Actually you have a very good point. But thinking around things, who owns the collection of rubbish the amphibious car after winning Scrapheap Challenge? Does it matter?

[TEAMYAKIMA]

Actually you have a very good point. But thinking around things, who owns the collection of rubbish the amphibious car after winning Scrapheap Challenge? Does it matter?

 

I would suggest that the winning entry would become  a 'celebrity' layout and fetch a nice price on ebay and so I think who owns it does matter.

[PatB]

I would suggest that the winning entry would become  a 'celebrity' layout and fetch a nice price on ebay and so I think who owns it does matter.

 

I would imagine that there is quite a bit of paperwork involved in an undertaking like this (NDAs, liability waivers etc.) so I suspect that there will be something clearly in writing before commencement. We (as the interested but non-involved public) might not know how final ownership will work, but I'd be very surprised if the organisers don't have it properly sewn up.

[5050]

I saw somewhere above that it is to be aired on Channel 5 - so I'm out.  If it's not on BBC 2 I'm not interested.  Besides, in June, I've got 2 weeks paint drying viewing already booked.

 

I have heard on the grapevine that if the programme is successful then the IOC will be approached to include 'Extreme Railroad Modeling' (Note- Railroad and Modeling so as the ensure the participation of the US of A and its cohorts) into the 2040 Olympic Games.  Events such as the '5 Metre Straight Tracklaying' and '10 Minute Mallet Conversion to P4' (or P87 etc. etc. as above) will be enthusiastically entered by teams from across the known world.

 

As one extremely well-known and very talented modeller said when the e-mail regarding this landed on his screen - 'WHAT!!!?'

[Huw Griffiths]

I have heard on the grapevine that if the programme is successful then the IOC will be approached to include 'Extreme Railroad Modeling' (Note- Railroad and Modeling so as the ensure the participation of the US of A and its cohorts) into the 2040 Olympic Games.  Events such as the '5 Metre Straight Tracklaying' and '10 Minute Mallet Conversion to P4' (or P87 etc. etc. as above) will be enthusiastically entered by teams from across the known world.

 

Well, it's either that or extreme rivet counting.

 

I've heard it keeps people fixed to their chairs.

 

(Or was that Pandrol spotting? Ties optional - but you might find a few sleepers.)

 

Still, I guess I'd better be careful - I don't want to start sounding like Tony Hirst, on "How It's Made".

 

 

Huw.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Huw Griffiths

[Huw Griffiths]

I spent my time in secondary school keeping very quiet about my interest as a matter of survival, and I've been cagey about going public ever since.

 

With me, it wasn't just railway modelling - I've also been interested in classical music for as long as I can remember.

 

Nothing wrong with either interest, of course - but, in many places, a minority seem to have a serious problem accepting that anybody might have different interests to them.

 

OK - it would be reasonable to suggest that these "comedians" have a serious problem - and it's not just that they're almost as funny as root canal treatment (without anaesthetic) - but I've never much cared for their style of "pleasantries" ... .

 

 

Huw.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Huw Griffiths

[PatB]

With me, it wasn't just railway modelling - I've also been interested in classical music for as long as I can remember.

 

Nothing wrong with either interest, of course - but, in many places, a minority seem to have a serious problem accepting that anybody might have different interests to them.

 

OK - it would be reasonable to suggest that these "comedians" have a serious problem - and it's not just that they're almost as funny as root canal treatment (without anaesthetic) - but I've never much cared for their style of "pleasantries" ... .

 

 

Huw.

I've nothing against classical music and greatly enjoy much of it, (without knowing much about it in an academic sense) but whenever a piece comes around on the workshop's IPod playlist I find myself slightly worried that I might be in the prologue of an episode of Morse .

[bgman]

A bit of Beethoven never harmed anyone !

 

An eclectic modeller

[Dagworth]

A bit of Beethoven never harmed anyone !

 

An eclectic modeller

My merry droogs may disagree with you...

 

Andi

[Huw Griffiths]

I've nothing against classical music and greatly enjoy much of it, (without knowing much about it in an academic sense) but whenever a piece comes around on the workshop's IPod playlist I find myself slightly worried that I might be in the prologue of an episode of Morse .

 

The time I start getting worried is when they play something from Mozart's Requiem. (It's generally regarded as decent music - quite rightly so, in my opinion - but, on something like Morse, I'd be worried what sort of plotlines any Requiem might be leading to. I believe they were written for funerals, after all.)

 

Seriously though, I've never studied music - and have never learnt to "sight read" - but I've always found some pieces of music (classical or otherwise) to be better than others.

 

Also, if any music finds its way onto a playlist, it's likely to have a tune. I certainly wouldn't expect it to be the sort of tuneless rubbish that some people seemed determined to ram down everyone's throats for a while during the last century.

 

 

Huw.

[Huw Griffiths]

A bit of Beethoven never harmed anyone !

 

An eclectic modeller

 

He wrote a lot of very good music - however, I'm not sure I'd want to have the first movement of his 3rd ("Eroica") symphony playing when I'm using a scalpel or a soldering iron.

 

By the way, I happen to like his 3rd symphony - a lot - but there's a famous bit in the first movement when the tempo speeds up drastically.

 

 

Huw.

[bgman]

Totally agree Huw, a real genius composer who helped me through some difficult moments surprisingly.

 

Hahaha, go on live life on the edge, milling machine revving, Eroica in the background!

 

Typical of the great man, I often wonder what his audiences thought when his music was premiered on opening nights, by all accounts not always well received. Think S*x Pistols at a Royal Gala Performance!!!

 

And just to calm us all down maybe put on his Symphony No.6 -Pastoral, absolutely beautiful to my mind.

 

Grahame

Edited February 22, 2018 by bgman

[Satan's Goldfish]

In true RMweb style, a thread about a planned modelling television show is now discussing Classical Music (which I also don't mind. Re-programmed all of the presets in the work wagon to Classic FM not long ago, was a good couple of months before anyone changed station in it). High-brow tangents like this are much better than other social platforms that just reduce into slagging each other off

[Stubby47]

A bit of Beethoven never harmed anyone !

An eclectic modeller

Eh? Eh? Can you speak up a bit? I'm a bit deaf...

[PatB]

In true RMweb style, a thread about a planned modelling television show is now discussing Classical Music (which I also don't mind. Re-programmed all of the presets in the work wagon to Classic FM not long ago, was a good couple of months before anyone changed station in it). High-brow tangents like this are much better than other social platforms that just reduce into slagging each other off

 

Here in WA, the choice on non-commercial radio is often sport, misery memoir of someone you've never heard of and parliamentary snoozefest live, leaving only ABC Classic FM to provide a worthwhile in vehicle soundtrack if I can't be bothered fiddling with CDs or want periodic news bulletins.

 

I dunno about classical music being highbrow though. Back during the short lived period when I experimented with music in my helmet whilst riding my motorbike, something like Ode to Joy turned up loud was at least as good at making me act like a hooligan as anything Motorhead or Rammstein ever turned out .