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Caledonian sleeper cheap fares


eastworld
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It used to be possible once to book what were called "Bargain Berths" on the Caledonian Sleeper trains, but all such references now take you to the normal Scotrail site. As a quick check on this seems to indicate a fare for two from London to Glasgow on the sleeper is around £340 plus, I was wondering if there were still any cheaper ways to do this? For that price I can drive and stay in a very comfortable hotel on the way up - I know it would take longer but I would be not be confined to what is a fairly basic small bedroom.

 

Stu

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There were at one time very cheap tickets for seated accommodation but I could not see any of those. Also £30 for a dog seems to be a bit of a rip off.

Then I looked at who is running the service. Not my favourite company.

Are these prices sustainable?

You and me seem to think that there are better options available.

Bernard

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They would seem to be sustainable.  I picked a date in mid April and checked availability from Dundee to London.  As you say, advance single fare for two was £170, even with senior railcards.  First class was sold out and there were (according to the website) only three advance fares left.  Checking for October the situation was much the same although there were a few first class available.  The fact is that if enough people are prepared to pay these prices that's what they'll charge.

 

DT

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Must be MPs reclaiming on expenses.

 

The drive is a bit of a bind , the horribly clogged M6 , but you could drive it and have a very comfortable hotel and still save money. Surely the sleeper should be encouraging folks off the roads . Not at these prices

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The Scottish sleeper services are VERY popular these days with berths selling out months ahead (even out of peak season) and thee is simply no need to offer discounted fares. In any case the Scotish Government is very keen to use it to showcase the 'best if Scotland' in terms of food / drink / toiletries / bedding which will inevitably cost more to run than a bargain basement approch

 

Not bad for a service the politicians wanted to kill off back in 94.....

 

The thing is if you need / want to be in London first thing in the morning, unless you happen to live on top of Aberdeen / Glasgow / Edinburgh airport then the sleeper train is the only option (unless you travel down the day before)

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Must be MPs reclaiming on expenses.

 

The drive is a bit of a bind , the horribly clogged M6 , but you could drive it and have a very comfortable hotel and still save money. Surely the sleeper should be encouraging folks off the roads . Not at these prices

 

They seem to be selling all available places even at the prices quoted, so they are taking as many cars off the road as they can, the only way to do more is to run more trains with extra capacity, which, apart from stock/pathing difficulties is the only way to expand and "encourage" more drivers off the road.

It's all down to supply and demand as usual.

 

Mike.

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Must be MPs reclaiming on expenses.

 

The drive is a bit of a bind , the horribly clogged M6 , but you could drive it and have a very comfortable hotel and still save money. Surely the sleeper should be encouraging folks off the roads . Not at these prices

 

Please note.

 

(i) The trains cannot be made any longer or they won't fit in Euston

(ii) There aren't lots of 'spare' sleeping cars sitting round for re-use*

(iii) The trains are already fully booked weeks in advance

(iv) The trains are subsidised by the SCOTTISH / run by Government - not Westminster to facilitate business / leisure travellers. What happens on the roads of England is none of Scotlands business.

 

* When the new sleeper coaches are in service then the current Mk3s would be avalible for other uses - but so far the Scotish Government seems to favour using them internally rather than a 'no frills' run to / from London that might take passengers off their premium product as it were.

Edited by phil-b259
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One cheaper way to do it could be to book a Berth supplement, book a single London - Glasgow NOT on a specific train and WITHOUT seat reservations. Then book a berth supplement which is £120 for two travelling in a room together.

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With regard to the OP, the £340 appears to be a return fare for two, so it's £170 one way for two people, ie £85 each.  That doesn't seem particularly unreasonable.

 

Incidentally, I see that the Dundee - London fare I quoted above has, in the few minutes that have since elapsed, increased to £200.....

 

DT

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Good that it's doing well, at least. Well enough to consider expansion? I wouldn't know about that. Sleeper trains will always be expensive as running a train is expensive, and they are low capacity - though they should be pitched to be competitive against the cost of travel + a hotel, since that's what you're getting.

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I think what ScotRail called ‘Bargin Berths’ are no more. The Mark 5s are very much being marketed at an alternative to a Hotel room, and will be priced as such. It has always been aimed at the business or luxury market. I travelled on the Northbound West Highland train recently and shared the lounge car with Susan Calman. They are also the only TOC that will knowingly carry firearms (presumably for deerstalking??)

 

On the Mk5s:

Comfort (sit-up) seats from £45

Classic rooms (twin or single) from £85 per person

Club rooms (en-suite) from £125 per person

Suites (double bed en-suite) from £200 per person.

 

One change is that you can no longer share a room with someone you don’t know. All prices have risen exept the seats which remain £45

 

The en-suites are a wet room with both a toilet and a shower, with Wi-Fi throughout

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Good that it's doing well, at least. Well enough to consider expansion? I wouldn't know about that. Sleeper trains will always be expensive as running a train is expensive, and they are low capacity - though they should be pitched to be competitive against the cost of travel + a hotel, since that's what you're getting.

 

Only if you are having trouble filling them I would suggest. From a pure business perspective if people are willing to pay more than travel + hotel then why should you hold prices down?

 

Of course, from a social perspective you might want lower fares to avoid accusations of only the 'rich' being able to afford to travel on the Sleeper - but that is a very different thing to being 'competitive' in the business sense.

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Only if you are having trouble filling them I would suggest. From a pure business perspective if people are willing to pay more than travel + hotel then why should you hold prices down?

 

Of course, from a social perspective you might want lower fares to avoid accusations of only the 'rich' being able to afford to travel on the Sleeper - but that is a very different thing to being 'competitive' in the business sense.

I don't really see any practical difference between not being able to get on the thing because it's more than one can or wants to pay and not being able to get on it because the fares have been lowered and it's fully booked even further in advance; probably before.you even decide you want to go.

 

TBH if you want to go to Scotland on the cheap and don't want to experience the M6 torture chamber through Cheshire and (from the South) turn it into a 2-day trip, there are budget airlines you can use.

 

Many people who use the Sleeper make a conscious decision to do so as part of their holiday experience, just as many who split the drive do. 

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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Living half way between bonny Jockland and the wild west, rather than all this London-centric investment, I'd love to see the Scotland - West Country sleeper services make a comeback.  If there were, for example, a Crewe to Penzance Sleeper, I for one would make use of it.  It's a wonderful part of the world, but takes too long to get there for a weekend trip or mini-break.  A sleeper service not via London would be a God send. 
The alternatives (flying, or taking valuable time off work to drive or spend all day in a Voyager) are as about as apealing as boiling ones own gonads in battery acid.

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We do use the sleeper when its affordable but we have also flown to Inverness as its often a lot cheaper than the train and especially when we do not have spare days holiday to go during the day. One Saturday morning we flew  from Gatwick to Inverness then taxi into town and were waiting for the first pub to open.

 

We came back by train though.

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It used to be possible once to book what were called "Bargain Berths" on the Caledonian Sleeper trains, but all such references now take you to the normal Scotrail site

Bargain Berths ended when the Caledonian Sleeper was separated from the ScotRail franchise, they were offered in the summer of 2015

Oddly, the branding was retained by the ScotRail franchise, hence why the links take visitors to ScotRail

 

A new fare structure was part of the franchise agreement, and it is now in place

Schedule 5.2 covers this, simplifying to five price tiers

In May 2015, bargain berths were available on Wednesday 06, 12, and 13

This was replaced by Advance

When the new rolling stock is introduced the highest discount will be 45%

Also, shared berths ends for separate passengers ends, and this discount reduces to 33%

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Please note.

 

(i) The trains cannot be made any longer or they won't fit in Euston

(ii) There aren't lots of 'spare' sleeping cars sitting round for re-use*

(iii) The trains are already fully booked weeks in advance

(iv) The trains are subsidised by the SCOTTISH / run by Government - not Westminster to facilitate business / leisure travellers. What happens on the roads of England is none of Scotlands business.

 

* When the new sleeper coaches are in service then the current Mk3s would be avalible for other uses - but so far the Scotish Government seems to favour using them internally rather than a 'no frills' run to / from London that might take passengers off their premium product as it were.

 

 

(ii), (iii) and (iv) all admitted.

 

(i) true but irrelevant - there is no rule that says the sleeper service has to run to / from Euston. There are plenty of empty late-evening platform faces at King's Cross and St Pancras. Similarly, there is no rule that says all of the sleeper carriages have to be crammed into a single train. There are already two departures - the Lowlander with portions for Edinburgh and Glasgow, and the Highlander with portions for Aberdeen, Inverness and Fort William. They could (if so minded) split the Highlander into two separate departures - the West Highlander with portions for Oban, Fort William and Kyle of Lochalsh, and the East Highlander with portions for Aberdeen, and Inverness.

 

(No ... I'm not suggesting that they should, or that it would be economically viable or anything .... your points ii - iv are already admitted ... I'm just saying that the length of the platform face at Euston does not have to be a limiting factor if one or more of your points ii - iv were to be remedied and the political will was there to organise it in some other way.)

Edited by PGN
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problem is St Pancras the only long platforms which can accommodate the current make up is the international platforms with different non uk signalling system and security issues. the other platforms are only slightly longer than a emt hst. Kings cross they will have reduce the train length to fit and also need paths on the north london line to reach wembley depot for servicing 

 

The current system for the highlander is that one driver takes the train to Preston where a driver change happens then the shunt moves at Edinburgh  then separate drivers for at least 2 parts of the train. The lowlander will have a similar method of working where one driver will work it then change before the shunt at Carstairs.

There is no rule but only 3 platforms at Euston fit the current sleeper formation and then one of blocks other lines when at Edinburgh they use platform 7/11 as all the carriages fit into plus room for the shunt moves.

 

The only way for Kings cross or St Pancras to be its london home is to reduce the train length which would in all case increase fares to cover the reduction in train length.

 

When the train leave Euston is path around the last day trains with loop stops to allow class 390 to pass by and for engineering works to take place as its the last train before the block is put on or go through a diversion route in one hit. 

 

You could run two trains one on the ECML and one on the WCML put will have to be planned around the engineering works which is around six months in advance and it has been know for the sleeper to use ECML during a big blockade and or more than weekend works and even some weekend works if there is no other option. 

 

The Inverness portion waits in a loop for the Up Highland Chieftain to pass it so it can use the same platform at Inverness. 

 

Serco will run under the existing model until the new Mk5 sleeper stock and class 73/9 and class 92 with mods are running with with out incidents before trying other routes or concepts 

 

So any new routes or train formation will have to be checked with Virgin WCML who ever takes over the ECML gbrf who supplies locomotives and drivers 

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