RTR vs Kits... Economics, Variety and Quality: a discussion.

[Jol Wilkinson]

I build plastic kits of military vehicles, figures and aircraft, in 1/35 and 1/72 scales mainly. I have also done quite a bit of model engineering in my younger days when I spent many of my off duty hours in the workshop using the lathe, milling machine etc to make steam engines (admittedly, static engines and not trains). I have never gotten into railway rolling stock kits though. I tried some a long time ago but just found them very disappointing. Maybe I was spoiled by the fine products of Tamiya and others, but my expectations were for well produced kits, with parts that fit together, comprehensive instructions and an enjoyable experience. I tried MTK and they were just dreadful, I'm not sure I'd even call them kits. Then I tried DJH and they were better than MTK but to be honest I still wasn't impressed. To be honest I'd rather scratchbuild than build a poor kit or a kit with no usable instructions as if I design it myself at least I understand exactly how something is meant to go together and it's my fault if the machining etc is rubbish. I'm still amazed when I see kits bought by friends at how few seem to come with usable instructions, to my mind there is no good reason why a kit shouldn't have good instructions. I think if there was less of a gulf between the standard of production and design between the mainstream military and aviation kit producers and those for railway locomotives and such like there might be a much wider take up as plenty of people still make plastic kits.

I think the difficulty here is that we are talking about two different "markets". The military and aviation market (you can add the static car and motor bike kit sector as well, to some degree) are, I believe, much more international. Tamiya, for example, are able to sell their products worldwide because they are excellent kits of items that are known and seen worldwide. UK railway subjects probably have a rather more limited appeal. Many of these kits are also not cheap. A friend and his grown up son model scale WW2 warships, kits costing several hundreds of pounds, with the same for the exquisite detailing packs.

The day of the two bob Airfix kit, bought in the local toy shop or Woolworths are long gone, replaced by the likes of Lego quick, easy, versatile, reusable, etc. that appeal to today's children and parents.

We are therefore more dependant, for UK model railways on what has usually been referred to as a cottage or kitchen table industry. Most are very small businesses, where the proprietor does everything from design, through producing/sourcing the product, packing, etc, etc. They don't always have the skills to produce packaging artwork, heavily illustrated instructions, etc. that larger companies can. I know from experience of running a model shop some years ago, what the German or Japanese manufacturers would provide in the R/C aircraft or boat kits, what Tamiya, Revell,and others would do. Even there, the UK producers did not match up in terms of product quality, instructions, packaging, etc. but relied on lower price to get sales.

So we have to recognise that the UK market is probably not capable of supporting the sort of kits people have said they would like. Prices would be too high, because sales volumes aren't big enough. Our demands for low cost, quick and easy results, means that the majority of modellers will continue, increasingly, look to the RTR manufacturers to supply what they want, produced by cheap overseas manufacturing.

Those that want to build their own models, create something different, will continue to kit build, kit bash, scratchbuild, adapt RTR, etc. It would be great if things were "better", but I don't see how the economics of this hobby, the skill sets of most modellers (and their unwillingness in many cases to improve them) and the emphasis given to RTR in the media, on internet forums, etc. is likely to encourage any significant change in what we currently have.

[JSpencer]

I build plastic kits of military vehicles, figures and aircraft, in 1/35 and 1/72 scales mainly. I have also done quite a bit of model engineering in my younger days when I spent many of my off duty hours in the workshop using the lathe, milling machine etc to make steam engines (admittedly, static engines and not trains). I have never gotten into railway rolling stock kits though. I tried some a long time ago but just found them very disappointing. Maybe I was spoiled by the fine products of Tamiya and others, but my expectations were for well produced kits, with parts that fit together, comprehensive instructions and an enjoyable experience. I tried MTK and they were just dreadful, I'm not sure I'd even call them kits. Then I tried DJH and they were better than MTK but to be honest I still wasn't impressed. To be honest I'd rather scratchbuild than build a poor kit or a kit with no usable instructions as if I design it myself at least I understand exactly how something is meant to go together and it's my fault if the machining etc is rubbish. I'm still amazed when I see kits bought by friends at how few seem to come with usable instructions, to my mind there is no good reason why a kit shouldn't have good instructions. I think if there was less of a gulf between the standard of production and design between the mainstream military and aviation kit producers and those for railway locomotives and such like there might be a much wider take up as plenty of people still make plastic kits.

 

While I agree, there is one big difference. A military kit will sell world wide. I can pick up an Airfix Spitfire in any country that has model shops. The instructions in military model kits are very good, these days often being cad renderings. You can build as is or tailor it to some particular vehicle. Transfers (unless of German types) are still a bit limited though.

 

Now I won't put all railway kit makers in the same boat! But firstly, their market is lot more limited, namely the UK for a UK prototype. That said I find it somewhat frustrating that there seems to be some expectation that you are intimate with the prototype in question. For me, one reason to buy a kit is to learn more on the prototype and I assume the person making it, did lots of research before hand, surely they can share it? (I will say - Replica were very good with their coach kits, sharing prototype info when I asked about it).

 

While military kits come with everything you need (after market bits do exist to refine areas as required), loco kits leave you to source the motor and wheels - admittedly there are no working parts in a miltary kit and we all have opinions on those part - however other kits also leave you also to source the fine details on top - some not being easy to find at all. I recently wanted SECR lamp irons, gave up and scratch built my own from staples.

 

The frustrating thing I also find with a lot of UK kit makers is that they are "not on the internet", "do not post abroad", "will only communicate at shows" and if you can e-mail them about buying their stuff, they "never reply" (there is one RTR manufacturer like that too). You often need to somehow fit their rather odd fashion dealing with them, in order to buy stuff!

Edited March 8, 2018 by JSpencer

[truffy]

Something which I think gets lost in these arguments is that modelling is not just about rolling stock, it is also about scenic, buildings and I'd include replicating 1:1 operations. There is an interesting thread in the musings section on the fact that some modellers are fixated on the minutiae of locomotives yet run these masterpieces on uninspiring layouts and pay little attention to that part of railway modelling. I know people who have a passion for making buildings and scenic, but who run RTR stock, they're certainly not lesser modellers than rolling stock kit builders. I also know people who have a passion for exact operations and who aren't that bothered in either the scenery or stock but who are meticulous in running a railway prototypically in model form, personally I also consider that to be modelling. And ultimately this is a hobby, they're all toy trains and whatever rocks people boat is as valid as any other form of participation in the hobby.

 

Top post of the day! You said pretty much everything that I thought on this subject.

 

UK railway subjects probably have a rather more limited appeal.

 

 

their market is lot more limited, namely the UK for a UK prototype.

 

Both valid points. But it's not just a question of unique UK prototypes but also, if you're modelling the most popular scale, unique UK scale. 4mm/ft is not widely accepted outside the UK, is it? And although you might get away with HO for passengers, for rolling stock it's a different matter entirely.

[adb968008]

The problem with kits is the paint job.

 

If you can’t paint, it’s just a 3d jigsaw, that may or may not end up looking nice or worthless.

 

It’s totally possible to produce very cool pre-printed easy to assemble kits in all kinds of ways today, plastic flats sprues with chamfered grooved ends to allow seamless tight fitting and “slot together” of parts, but the model railway world is decades behind in this. Some of our rtr models are pretty much assembled kits already.

 

Given recent price rises, it could be opportunity to revisit this model, ARCModels showed this is possible a few years ago, and Golden Age kits also are pretty good using resin, but the paint aspect remains.

 

Of course the other issue is what prototypes to produce that would sell in significant quantity... that gene pool of unmodelled types has shrunk considerably in recent years, but there are some good ones ripe still, but at risk of someone snapping them up in rtr form., as OO works has seen on several of its extremely well finished prototypes.

 

When 3d printing, actually uses non-fadable ink at precision detail for paint finish & lining etc as part of the printing process then it will take off and the world will be your oyster... maybe in 10 years...the winners will be the old & obscure types.. Victorian stuff, one off prototypes etc..

 

its when not if.

Edited March 8, 2018 by adb968008

[Clearwater]

In the same way as it’s unrealistic to expect to be able to build a complex kit first off, getting a Goddard/Rathbone paint job never having done one before is equally unrealistic. Knowing the latter is currently not possible for me, I’m focusing my kit building efforts on projects where the eventual paint job is simpler - eg plain black or unlined GWR green.

 

FWIW, I don’t disagree that the development of technology such as 3D printing has the scope to revolutionise how we buy our toys! That said, there will still need to be some skill/research in choosing how to programme the machine to produce what you want.

[PatB]

Much depends upon one's motivation for building a kit. Yes, the initial cost is high, but if you consider the building process as entertainment rather than a means to an end, and look at the cost per hour, it'll almost certainly compare quite favourably with going to the cinema or the pub, for example. Similarly, if you regard it as an educational experience, compare the hourly rate with that for, say, a course of evening classes in a subject that interests you and, again, I think it would look a little more promising.

 

Of course, if you are building as a means to an end, it certainly makes more sense to buy r-t-r if it's available cheaper and of acceptable (to you) quality. Certainly I'd find it difficult to justify the cost and time of a kit if the same prototype is available r-t-r because, however much I might enjoy or learn from the build, it's unlikely that anything I produce will look as good, mainly because I, personally, am a bit rubbish at painting and finishing (although improving).

 

If you want cheap, and especially if you want prototypes noone makes (or is likely to), the only options are r-t-r bashing and secondhand kit reclamation, or old-school scratchbuilding. Although the latter requires a certain amount (not much in reality) of equipment, once you've got that brass, nickel silver, tinplate and solder are cheap (relatively). If you're not keen on learning metalbashing, many, many excellent models have been built from styrene sheet and even card. Running gear can be cannibalised from broken r-t-r, especially if you're prepared to compromise a bit on stuff like wheel sizes. Being poor, this approach appeals to me more and more as I get older, although time constraints render it a currently impractical one. I keep going back to my old copy of The Model Railway Encyclopedia and gazing at the pages describing the construction of an LNER J50 using only wheels and motor armature laminations bought in finished form .

[Phil Parker]

It should also be borne in mind that one kitmaker who came closest to the sort of kits you are after, JLTRT, has just shut up shop as there wasn't sufficient demand for the products. 

 

Easy to build kits will also require much more R&D for both parts and instructions. That shoves the price up a lot, and we know the UK market prizes low price above everything. The "we want a beginners kit" cry has gone up more than once over the last few years, and I normally point out that this exists:

 

 

DJH Beginners kit for a Barclay.

 

They also used to do an 02 diesel in 4 and 7mm. Trouble is, this loco costs £180.

 

The kit is pretty idiot proof with a largely pre-assembled chassis. It's an excellent first kit (the 02 was mine) and you can be confident of ending up with a working model, BUT, all that development means that it's now nearly  twice the price of a Hattons RTR version assembled in China. 

[truffy]

It should also be borne in mind that one kitmaker who came closest to the sort of kits you are after, JLTRT, has just shut up shop as there wasn't sufficient demand for the products. 

Wasn't that Just Like The Real Thing, not JLTRT per se? And the relative exclusivity, and price, of O gauge might have something to do with it.

[hayfield]

The age old statements that I cannot build models or I cannot paint models is the same for most model making, trains, boats and planes. They are either something you learn as you go along, or better still join a club and learn from others.

 

You start with cheap kits, wagons, buildings etc. Learning both building and painting techniques as you go along progressissing to smaller locos before making a big statement loco. All of us start out with the same level of knowledge (nothing), us older ones starting off with Airfix kits and progressing in ability as we continued to develop skills, as well as kits I guess most of us also tried making items from card and balsa wood. To often today people expect an instant result, rewards without putting in any effort, if that's the case go for cheque book modelling.

 

A good discipline is to make something from scrap materials, or print off one of those paper kits, turning it into a 3D model and adding extra detail. Just be creative, 

[sem34090]

"but don't see the logic of whitemetal and brass kits when they cost more than an RTR loco."

 

That is the gist of the argument really isn't it?

 

They want more toys - cheaply and without having to do anything.

 

Some people like building things, some do it under sufferance and others avoid it like the plague.

 

That really is what the "discussion" is all about

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

Some people seemingly only read into a post what they want to read into it!

 

Most of the people I was referring to take great satisfaction from building kits, including plastic wagon and military kits. They produce some fine work, but the cost of loco kits puts them off, and it makes little sense for them to build them. People my age often have a severely limited income, and this is the younger end of the hobby where I feel no encouragement is being given for us to build kits. The more elderly members of the hobby seem to traditionally associate the younger end with everything-out-of-the-box 'Heritage Railways' (Run what you want) or modern scenes. Well, I know of at least one other person my age who models pre-grouping and a considerable number who model roughly 1935 - 1947, and many of them build wagon kits or building kits, even scratchbuilding of both.

 

As an example, and I don't wish this to be a personal criticism, but whenever I've approached the wizard models stand at a show I have been completely ignored when attempting to politely ask a question about one of their products, yet the proprietor is more than happy to talk to older members. So I never have purchased any LBSCR signal components from him. I found this with a few other traders at the last expoEM  I visited, a fantastic show with modelling to aspire to and some beautiful examples of kit and scratchbuilding, but some more or less thought I would know nothing and did not warrant their time or even conversation.

[sem34090]

It should also be borne in mind that one kitmaker who came closest to the sort of kits you are after, JLTRT, has just shut up shop as there wasn't sufficient demand for the products. 

 

Easy to build kits will also require much more R&D for both parts and instructions. That shoves the price up a lot, and we know the UK market prizes low price above everything. The "we want a beginners kit" cry has gone up more than once over the last few years, and I normally point out that this exists:

 

Barlcay.jpg

 

DJH Beginners kit for a Barclay.

 

They also used to do an 02 diesel in 4 and 7mm. Trouble is, this loco costs £180.

 

The kit is pretty idiot proof with a largely pre-assembled chassis. It's an excellent first kit (the 02 was mine) and you can be confident of ending up with a working model, BUT, all that development means that it's now nearly  twice the price of a Hattons RTR version assembled in China. 

I understand your point, Phil, but I and others I know don't have £180 to spend on a kit. It's a hard enough push for £99 to get the RTR edition.

[The Johnster]

I have to agree with the point raised about Ratio in post 40; they are not likely to encourage a newbie and are often very fiddly with extremely delicate parts.

 

The bitter truth about kits in the current market is that they have been pushed to the sidelines by better quality and variety in RTR, and many are of questionable availability as their originators pass on or retire.  Marketing in the digital age is not a strong point in general, websites being difficult to negotiate and often seriously out of date.  Market presence is often diminished by ranges being renamed by new owners, and people like me who identify them by the old names are further confused and put off.  It is a dying genre, sadly.

Edited March 8, 2018 by The Johnster

[PatB]

Following on from my previous post, get yerself a copy of this, pick a reasonably simple loco you would like that you can't get elsewhere, and have a go. You'll have very little to lose. I know this is wandering away from the discussion of the cost of kits, but one solution to that is to learn enough so as not to have to use them. TBH, given my experience with whitemetal,, I think scratchbuilding a la Mr Williams is probably easier than some old style kits.

[Clearwater]

I understand your point, Phil, but I and others I know don't have £180 to spend on a kit. It's a hard enough push for £99 to get the RTR edition.

Hence my post (#49) on previous page about buying components on a stage by stage basis...

Edited March 8, 2018 by Clearwater

[sem34090]

My apologies Clearwater! I did see your post but had not responded.

 

You make a sound point there, and it is one I may well follow up in the near future.

[rue_d_etropal]

Noticed this thread, and there has been a mention of 3D printing. Despite what some say, it is the future, and I suspect there will be a drift towards r2r and 3D printing, and away from limited interest (and high development cost) kits. 3D printing might even stimulate interest in model building, as it is a nice half way stage, and might give someone the confidence to build a kit.

 

Look back to the 60s, and Wills loco kits were designed to fit r2r chassis. It did not stop someone building a chassis, and some feel more confident in that than scatchbuilding a loco body.

 

As this is under the Hornby section, it might be interesting to see if big companies pick up on the 3d printing market, not just as tool for prototyping. As long as they dont just listen to those who want a finished model. Some might not be able to build, or paint a model to the level they want, but I sometimes feel they are expecting too much. If they want, what are in effect profesionally built models, they they should expect to pay the price. People grumble that r2r costs too much, but it is in reality very good valued.

 

I don't know if it is just railway modelling, but I have noticed no decline in new plastic injection models for military modellers, production in both China and the Ukraine.

[Phil Parker]

I understand your point, Phil, but I and others I know don't have £180 to spend on a kit. It's a hard enough push for £99 to get the RTR edition.

 

So what is the solution? Kitmakers should sell all their products at a loss? That won't last long as a business plan. I suspect you assume they are all making terrific profits from the "high" prices - they aren't. These are items that sell in tiny numbers compared to an Airfix Spitfire or even Tamya R/C car. There's still manufacturing costs and R&D to be paid though and that has to come out of the final price.

 

Making things out of plastic would mean the material costs would be lower, but the tooling costs much higher and I suspect development costs too. The working bits of those Ratio kits weren't much cop and you still had to build them. If you sell 10,000 then Airfix levels of buildability start to make sense, but for 20-50? No chance. 

 

I don't think there is a solution to this. I remember having to save for a long while to be able to afford my first kits. At least as a club member I knew there was support to help me end up with a model that would work. Not all of them did, but there is a learning curve.  Now I have the skills, but a loco kit, or RTR model still causes me a pause before spending the money.

[sem34090]

Fair point!

[Clive Mortimore]

Anyone thought of scratchbuilding? Daft concept really.

 

Six locos and all the structures are hand made.

[JSpencer]

It should also be borne in mind that one kitmaker who came closest to the sort of kits you are after, JLTRT, has just shut up shop as there wasn't sufficient demand for the products. 

 

Easy to build kits will also require much more R&D for both parts and instructions. That shoves the price up a lot, and we know the UK market prizes low price above everything. The "we want a beginners kit" cry has gone up more than once over the last few years, and I normally point out that this exists:

 

Barlcay.jpg

 

DJH Beginners kit for a Barclay.

 

They also used to do an 02 diesel in 4 and 7mm. Trouble is, this loco costs £180.

 

The kit is pretty idiot proof with a largely pre-assembled chassis. It's an excellent first kit (the 02 was mine) and you can be confident of ending up with a working model, BUT, all that development means that it's now nearly  twice the price of a Hattons RTR version assembled in China. 

 

I think part of the problem is "... start with a wagon..." and ".... this small 0-4-0 loco...." is not likely to inspire young blood into modelling especially the price of the small loco.

It would be like telling tank modellers that they should start with an FT17 (a small old French WWI tank that just made it into WWII) before doing something you prefer.

 

I started with a couple of very old Ks kits back in the 90s. Yeah the first - an Adams radial - was rubbish, the second (P2) came out ok, but at least I could afford them, it allowed me to play around with motors, wheels and gearboxes. Lessons learned allowed me to do a Q, Q1 and W1. The small Barclay is relatively dull (for many newcomers) and really pricey. 

 

What is missing are, beginners kits, not many parts but resembling popular prototypes, and expert versions with packets of details.

Edited March 8, 2018 by JSpencer

[Steamport Southport]

When I mentioned Parkside kits rather than Airfix/Dapol I was thinking the thread was about someone starting out. I have dozens of Airfix/Dapol wagon kits. I just think that Parkside are much easier to build and run much better.

 

 

 

I think understand this thread now.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but in essence it's "kits are rubbish because I can't afford them. But I want cheap Airfix style kits as I can make Airfix kits and if they make them like that then they will be dead cheap".

 

 

As for experience do you think that Coachman woke up one morning and decided to paint a coach and it came out perfect? No he spent years developing his skills.

 

How do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice. Practice. Practice.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[sem34090]

When I mentioned Parkside kits rather than Airfix/Dapol I was thinking the thread was about someone starting out. I have dozens of Airfix/Dapol wagon kits. I just think that Parkside are much easier to build and run much better.

 

 

 

I think understand this thread now.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but in essence it's "kits are rubbish because I can't afford them. But I want cheap Airfix style kits as I can make Airfix kits and if they make them like that then they will be dead cheap".

 

 

As for experience do you think that Coachman woke up one morning and decided to paint a coach and it came out perfect? No he spent years developing his skills.

 

How do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice. Practice. Practice.

 

 

 

 

Jason

I have never seen a more patronising response in my life! Well done Sir!

 

I was merely proposing that perhaps one way of introducing more modellers into making things for themselves would be for there to be a new range of modern plastic kits, possibly capable of being made operational, that can get people building and bashing again.

 

I have not said that kits are rubbish, far from it. I have never denied that kits can produce fantastic models of which one can be proud. I own several kitbuilt locos and they are, in some respects, superior to some of the RTR offerings I own. My point is that I can't get into building loco kits at present due to one basic fact:

 

1.) I have not got enough money to buy a loco kit. I know others of my age who have the same problem, so I am experimenting with 3D Printing. Clearwater's suggestion is another one I will have to follow up.

 

I am not suggesting that this is anyone's fault, more that perhaps a new solution could be devised to encourage more people to start building kits. Many people are put off by the fact that, most of the time, a kit is more expensive than an RTR model. A few plastic kits of popular subjects that have potential to be sold abroad could help encourage some to take the first steps towards building kits.

 

I am not saying that these proposed kits would be the same price as a Airfix Spitfire, or even a Dapol 9F or Std 4, but somewhere <£30 would be reasonable for a good kit. I'm definitely not saying that current manufacturers up sticks and switch to plastic - I appreciate that plastic costs more money to tool up for.

 

I have a few K's kits (Built) and I must say that they seem reasonable, and judging by what I've heard they were quite cheap. That's perhaps my main point: if there was to be some range of cheap kits, plastic or (even better) whitemetal, then that would help. K's kits also seem to have come with everything included, another problem with many kits today. Unfortunately I can't afford a £180 spend on an 0-4-0ST, much as I would like to be rolling in cash.

 

J.Spencer puts it better than I:

 

 

 

I think part of the problem is "... start with a wagon..." and ".... this small 0-4-0 loco...." is not likely to inspire young blood into modelling especially the price of the small loco.

It would be like telling tank modellers that they should start with an FT17 (a small old French WWI tank that just made it into WWII) before doing something you prefer.

 

I started with a couple of very old Ks kits back in the 90s. Yeah the first - an Adams radial - was rubbish, the second (P2) came out ok, but at least I could afford them, it allowed me to play around with motors, wheels and gearboxes. Lessons learned allowed me to do a Q, Q1 and W1. The small Barclay is relatively dull (for many newcomers) and really pricey. 

 

What is missing are, beginners kits, not many parts but resembling popular prototypes, and expert versions with packets of details.

[Phil Parker]

 

 

I am not saying that these proposed kits would be the same price as a Airfix Spitfire, or even a Dapol 9F or Std 4, but somewhere

 

 

So all someone has to do is produce a range of large loco kits (the 0-4-0 isn't exciting enough remember), with all the bits included for less than 30 quid and then people MIGHT decide to build them. Sorry, if you can do that with "a new solution" then you are some sort of genius. There are plenty of wagon kits costing more than that, never mind locos.

 

K's kits were complete but in relative terms, they were nowhere near your £30. Worse, the bits being built down to a price suffered. It was just about possible to build them straight from the box but the chances of getting the chassis to run as well as a contemporary RTR loco, never mind what we have today, was nil. If they had worked well then they, or their successors, would be in production today. 

 

When I started modelling, if I wanted a shunter, I knew the price would be at least twice a Lima diesel before those things were being sold off. I was a long way from "rolling in money" too. Truth was, when I was a kid and had very, very little money, I didn't do much rolling stock building in 4mm scale. The cost of Romford wheels was out of reach (even for the 0-4-0) never mind a good motor and gear set. This was the 1980s and those bits would be £25ish alone. Instead, I scratchbuilt for my garden railway because card and wood are cheap, as were rubbish motors, plastic gears and wheels.

 

What I did do was modify RTR because then you could and improve it. That option has largely gone for modern stock as the stuff is so good from the box. You can still re-work 2nd hand, and that is more akin to the route to kitbuilding I took than diving straight into a pile of whitemetal or etched brass.

[Steamport Southport]

But I don't understand what the actual point is.

 

You say that kits are too expensive then advocate using 3D printing. Last time I looked 3D printing was vastly more expensive than almost any whitemetal kit that is available. Resin the same. They can also be extremely crude. If you want perfect quality then you are talking about tens of thousands for printers that are good enough and I doubt that the printers who are using those machines are going to be charging rock bottom prices to use them.

 

If there are any good quality, yet reasonably priced 3D models of locomotives then kindly point them out to me. As I've never seen any.

 

There are some quite nice narrow gauge models available from Narrow Planet. But they are not exactly cheap. Certainly more expensive than the equivalent whitemetal kits.

 

https://shop.narrowplanet.co.uk/collections/loco-kits

 

 

Plastic loco kits are alright for static models but are totally useless for motorising. Just look at the example of the Ratio Midland 2-4-0 and 4-4-0, not even helped when Perserevence replaced the plastic chassis with a brass one.

 

 

 

Jason

[sem34090]

I do quite a bit of RTR bashing.

 

As for 3D printing, I have recently done CAD for an LSWR Adams G6, in 4mm, including chassis, for £16.75.

 

Without the chassis, it's £11.20.

 

So it doesn't have to be expensive.