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Bachmann Peppercorn A1 and A2 general qualities


robmcg
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Hi All,

 

Firstly, my apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere.

 

I have always admired the Bachmann A1 and A2 models, and I'm sure I have read somewhere on RMweb about how to fix the drooping running plate below the cab, and the slight backwards lean of cab on some models. I don't recall it being an easy thing to fix.

 

Can someone give me an idea of which particular code numbers for all of these engines were better or worse?

 

I have an idea that a 32-558 60115 'Meg Merrilies' I had a few years back was better than some others, being made in 2009, and that 32-551 60158 'Aberdonian' made in 2001 had a weak motor which was upgraded for later releases.

 

The 2010-on A2 class also suffer cab droop to my eyes and the recent 31-531 60536 'Trimbush' has a worrying r/h-side warp in the handrail in many shop advertising photos.

 

The running plate droop and cab fitment appears to be variable in photos in ads, so it would be nice to know which of the various new versions might be best to buy, given that most sellers use generic photos. 

 

Also is it true that most A1s come with no electric lights factory-fitted at the front above the buffer beam  but A2s have them?

 

Any and all comments about these engines and experiences with them would be most welcome. With the ski-jump issues on recent Hornby A3s I thought the cab-droop on Bachmann A1s and A2s might have similar nature.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

typo edits

Edited by robmcg
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Both A1 and A2 bodies are adjustable, thanks to a screw assembled construction of cast metal footplate, cast metal cab, plastic boiler. I had an Aberdonian (with no motor trouble) a couple of Tornados and North Eastern very soon after introduction (two kept for myself, two went to a friend), and these were all a little droopy at the back end, easily corrected. Later purchases, a pair of Kestrels that were fine, one for me. one for the friend. All of them needed a lot of lead inside for traction, springing adjustment, the drawbar and fall plate representation reshaping to avoid the back end of the loco being supported on the tender step. With all this done, they remain satisfactory to this day.

 

I passed on the first issues of the A2 because they looked a little wonky, then went in for a trio of Happy Knights and a pair of Irish Elegances, all of which were trouble free in all respects. Far better 'sorted' than the A1s, all they needed was a little more weight adding for the full on tractive mightiness, and the three of us who own them are all well pleased. (Well, I know I am, and my friends haven't complained about theirs!)

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Thanks 34theletterbetweenB&D

 

Forgive me but I'm not sure how how one can fix a downward droop by adjustment of assemblies, could you please elucidate?

 

It looks to me as if the rear of the running plate has an actual bend, as in this pic...  typical of the several A2s and A1s I own.

 

post-7929-0-27740500-1519433602_thumb.jpg

 

Does removing the body make it all look simple?  I'm afraid I am not overly confident in taking these models apart.

 

edit, yes I notice one tender axle is awry. :)

Edited by robmcg
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Rob, I do appreciate that your injuries may make this difficult, not least from having a problem of my own.

 

In short, with the body off, you can see the construction screws on the underside of the body that locate and clamp together the body components. The process is nothing more sophisticated than take a good look at the model to see what needs adjustment, take it apart, gently bend any castings to straighten, reassemble easing any fits with a wipe of a file as required as you go.

 

I haven't done this myself in the last few years, due the onset of variable (by light level) astigmatism in both eyes which is proving a major headache, figuratively and literally, and which the consultant tells me is not rectifiable. Weird effect in that I can often see that something is wrong, but achieving a correction is very tedious. So I am rather hoping for all straight and true when Bachmann  choose to bless us with a 'Bronzino' or 'Velocity'. (I can barely see the verticals of most letters in the present lighting, which has led to my spelling going awry quite regularly, another very undesireable feature of this problem...)

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Rob, can't comment on the A1 in detail (although as 34c suggests - it is unscrewing and gentle persuasion)

the early A2s are much more difficult. Basically the top section of the cab front is too thick, which forces the cab back when everything is screwed up. To avoid repainting this section of cab, the bottom edge of the cab needs to be given a bit more room to counter the effect at the top.

All explained in my blog post of 2011

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/411/entry-6555-Bachmann-a2-cab-sloop-fix/

 

This said, this fix does leave a small gap in the cab front/firebox interface, and, when combined with the incorrect black tender raves and black running plate,  Indeed I up purchasing Happy Knight to renumber of Blue Peter (along with swapping the split handrail smokebox door!). This is beautifully made. Basically everything from the second batch onwards of the A2s should be OK cab sloop wise.

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Rob, can't comment on the A1 in detail (although as 34c suggests - it is unscrewing and gentle persuasion)

the early A2s are much more difficult. Basically the top section of the cab front is too thick, which forces the cab back when everything is screwed up. To avoid repainting this section of cab, the bottom edge of the cab needs to be given a bit more room to counter the effect at the top.

All explained in my blog post of 2011

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/411/entry-6555-Bachmann-a2-cab-sloop-fix/

 

This said, this fix does leave a small gap in the cab front/firebox interface, and, when combined with the incorrect black tender raves and black running plate,  Indeed I up purchasing Happy Knight to renumber of Blue Peter (along with swapping the split handrail smokebox door!). This is beautifully made. Basically everything from the second batch onwards of the A2s should be OK cab sloop wise.

 

Thankyou most heartily, G-BOAF, I think I must have read this when you wrote it in 2011, it seems familiar.

 

I can see that the problem is essentially one of slightly mis-fitting parts, and/or not-quite-right dimensions in some. As 34C points out it might be relatively simple disassembly and reassembly, I shall have to consider the merits of having a go at it.

 

The cab droop is apparent in nearly all the A1 and A2s I see for sale, new or s/h, so I'm thinking that maybe I'm over-sensitive. It is less obvious in layout viewing, or from a higher angle, but the same could be said for the Hornby A3 ski-jump running plates.

 

Thanks again for the full description of the definitive fix, and I hope that later batches of A2s are free of droop, having just bought but not yet received 'Trimbush', couldn't resist the £99 special at Kernow, which was chear again for lucky me living in NZ thus no VAT. 

 

Also have bought three s/h A1s from Hattons, one was a BR green pristine re-named 60154 'Bon Accord' for £65 and the only fault I could see was cab side glasses missing, which I hope to fix with sellotape on the inside and a carefully cut window insert of clear thin plastic set into the frame. It has a late-emblem tender and early chimney which is wrong, but I have other tenders and engines to mix'n'match.  Another was a TMC painted and detailed BR blue A1 for under £100, so I am well and truly a lost cause! The third was a s/h but mint apple green 60117 un-named recent release, again under £100. Very fond of early BR am I. 

 

Good value these models if you think £100 is a good price for these models (I clearly do!). I have the Irwell Book of the A1 and A2 Pacifics and the details through the years are a bit of a minefield. I hadn't realised that what are described as Peppercorn Pacifics are largely Thompson in design.

 

Am I right in thinking that the cab droop is worst in early production runs of A2s, but that any and all A1s and A2s may suffer to some degree?

Edited by robmcg
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just to add to my admiration of the Peppercorn Pacifics and the Bachmann models, here are a few pics of them, edited of course.

 

post-7929-0-78630700-1519505353_thumb.jpg

 

A2 60532 'Blue Peter'.

 

post-7929-0-91776000-1519505393_thumb.jpg

 

A2 60533 'Happy Knight'

 

post-7929-0-84023000-1519505469_thumb.jpg

 

A2 60533 'Happy Knight' weathered.

 

post-7929-0-82953200-1519505673_thumb.jpg

 

A1 60157 at speed, 

 

post-7929-0-47620500-1519505513_thumb.jpg

 

A1 60114 'W P Allen' frosty morning.

 

post-7929-0-30247100-1519505938_thumb.jpg

 

A1 60147 'North Eastern' weathered.  Gateshead engine! <g>

 

post-7929-0-89329400-1519506035_thumb.jpg

 

60157 again, who said the ER had dirty express engines?  

 

and too finish, the real McCoy!   LNER A2 526 'Sugar Palm'   these engines should all have had double chimneys and blastpipes from the word go, shame on the BTC.

 

post-7929-0-88031300-1519506408_thumb.jpg

 

cheers

Edited by robmcg
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...60157 again, who said the ER had dirty express engines?  ...

They inevitably got covered in dirt in operation alright, though in the case of the pacifics out of Top Shed, never to the extent of losing all indication of green paint beneath, and typically much better than that. Sadly the equally lovely V2s were typically mucky, except 'Arrer' which was a Top Shed pet engine and it showed. That much from childhood memory, how much we loved those gleaming green monsters doing their thing so wonderfully. It's good to see a Doncaster design pacific out on the main line now, but they are never going fast enough to generate the deep bass pulsation 'whum, whum, whum' that we could hear in the distance as every up express approached.

 

I later learned that the spectacularly filthy Doncaster pacifics were largely associated with York, which apparently had no end of trouble finding staff, with New England the acknowledged champions for neglecting their V2s exterior appearance.

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I particularly like your description of fast-moving 3-cylinder expresses approaching.  I wonder when that will be incorporated into a sound chip!

 

I used to love the way cold air used to bend the sounds of approaching fast-moving trains, in my case New Zealand 4-8-4s and 4-8-2s, wit 4'6" drivers at 55-60mph they were something quite spectacular on trains approaching Auckland after a 420-mile overnight run from Wellington. That all went diesel in 1963 ('The Limited') and 1965 (the '3.40pm')  great memories.

 

back to Peppercorn A1s... here is a fast-moving cold air pic, of 'Aberdonian' at speed...

 

post-7929-0-91414400-1519617767_thumb.jpg

 

cheers

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I particularly like your description of fast-moving 3-cylinder expresses approaching.  I wonder when that will be incorporated into a sound chip!...

 Along with the whistles and clonks of the semaphore signalling wires and mechanisms, that's the fabulous sound of the steam railway I miss the most. It only enters the audible range if the loco is both moving fast and working hard. The rise from Stevenage to Knebworth was ideal as the driver gave her some more of the gear to maintain speed, and the resulting fairly low amplitude bass note was heard in the distance. As the loco gets closer all the other racket drowns it out.

 

Cannot be done in small scale onboard sound. The fundamentals required are in the 20-45Hz range. I use floor standers to get this output when replaying the old Transacords, it's present in the recordings because Peter Handford was an ace recording engineer: and you simply don't hear it if the recording is replayed on a typical home replay system with no bass output to speak of below 100Hz.

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So much for buying A2 'Trimbush' on special from Kernows, they had 4 in stock on Thursday and Friday, 1 in stock on Saturday, so I bought it, all correctly processed and acknowledged with nice automatic messages from them, then today I receive an Email saying they 'can't find the model anywhere' and have refunded my card.

 

I will have to pay the NZ UK transaction fees each way.

 

This is the second time they have not been able to find a model where their website said '1 in stock' and I have lost about 10 quid. 

 

I think they should offer to obtain the model from another seller and fulfil their contract, they wouldn't lose much if anything and keep a customer.  It may be that they will even reimburse my loss but I suspect their small print means they are not obliged to.  They have lost this customer for good (about UKP1,000 of sales in a 6 years).

 

I feel a little better now...

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WOW  Brilliant  pics..... it  brings  to  mind  Dinting  Railway  Centre  ( Nr  Glossop UK)  now  long  gone, we  lived  not  far  away in  those  days  and  would  often visit, On weekdays  it  was  usually  deserted  and  it  was  rather  erie   walking  alongside  the  cold locos in  the  dismal dark  shed,  Bittern A4 was  there  for  some  time  along  with  a ROD 2-8-0,  Blue  Peter  was  parked  outside for  a  while,  somewhere  I have  a photo of  my eldest  son  standing  alongside  Blue Peter  he  was  aged  around  18 months,  he  celebrated his  40th  Birthday  last  August...doesn't  time  fly! 

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Hello Rob
 
Some nice picture editing
 

.This is the second time they have not been able to find a model where their website said '1 in stock' and I have lost about 10 quid. ....

 
36276771036_878d6e6d48_c.jpg
Brand New Pearl Diver - note smoke deflector handrail

You might have been spared even more heartache if they had sent you the last one.  I have stopped looking at Kernow's 'offers' after receiving a duff Hornby County and then this Bachmann A2.  Kernow's initial reaction was to say that the box was just for protecting the model in transit.  It was obviously not doing that job properly judging by the fact that the handrail had worked loose.
 
Cheers
 
Ray

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So much for buying A2 'Trimbush' on special from Kernows, they had 4 in stock on Thursday and Friday, 1 in stock on Saturday, so I bought it, all correctly processed and acknowledged with nice automatic messages from them, then today I receive an Email saying they 'can't find the model anywhere' and have refunded my card.

 

No compensation I know but Kernow often advertise items that 'they only have one of - found at the back of the shop'! Having visited their shop (whilst on holiday) I can testify that it is the classic 'aladdins cave'. I wager your bad luck is cock up rather than conspiracy. Nice people to deal with too. 

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No compensation I know but Kernow often advertise items that 'they only have one of - found at the back of the shop'! Having visited their shop (whilst on holiday) I can testify that it is the classic 'aladdins cave'. I wager your bad luck is cock up rather than conspiracy. Nice people to deal with too. 

 

Thanks Mike and Ray,

 

I got an apology from Kernows today and an explanation, that they may have stock stolen when they visit shows, and that it might be a good idea to not wait until there is only 1 in stock before buying. Also got a one-off discount offer on any purchase..

 

I have been around shops from both buyer and seller's point of view and have always been aware of what is euphemistically called 'stock shrinkage', covering damaged, lost, stolen, misappropriated, rained-on, mouse-eaten stock.

 

I good computer stock control system allows for this.

 

I'm sure they are nice people.  Moral of story, some companies may not have 1 in stock when their website says they do.  (Some sellers say they have 'last one' when they have ten!)

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I

 

Thanks Mike and Ray,

 

I got an apology from Kernows today and an explanation, that they may have stock stolen when they visit shows, and that it might be a good idea to not wait until there is only 1 in stock before buying. Also got a one-off discount offer on any purchase..

 

I have been around shops from both buyer and seller's point of view and have always been aware of what is euphemistically called 'stock shrinkage', covering damaged, lost, stolen, misappropriated, rained-on, mouse-eaten stock.

 

I good computer stock control system allows for this.

 

I'm sure they are nice people.  Moral of story, some companies may not have 1 in stock when their website says they do.  (Some sellers say they have 'last one' when they have ten!)

 

  I Believe  that  'Last  One in Stock'  is  always  an excellent  way  to  boost  sales!! :nono:  

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WOW  Brilliant  pics..... it  brings  to  mind  Dinting  Railway  Centre  ( Nr  Glossop UK)  now  long  gone, we  lived  not  far  away in  those  days  and  would  often visit, On weekdays  it  was  usually  deserted  and  it  was  rather  erie   walking  alongside  the  cold locos in  the  dismal dark  shed,  Bittern A4 was  there  for  some  time  along  with  a ROD 2-8-0,  Blue  Peter  was  parked  outside for  a  while,  somewhere  I have  a photo of  my eldest  son  standing  alongside  Blue Peter  he  was  aged  around  18 months,  he  celebrated his  40th  Birthday  last  August...doesn't  time  fly! 

 

Indeed a cold steam locomotive can be quite eerie and sad, no wonder people put  lot of dedicated effort into getting engines back into steam!

 

I grew up in the 1960s and there was no shortage of either type, an endless supply for the scrap siding!

 

Would have uploaded a pic but I'm only getting Error....  sigh

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How and where have you added weight to the Bachmann A1 and A2. Is there room above the motor / driving wheels ?

Applicable to both A1 and A2, they are positively cavernous inside! For best results in keeping the weight balanced in the middle of the coupled wheelbase it is easiest in my opinion to remove the light and bulky decoder socket, and arrange the wiring tidily for DC or DCC (or other alternatives). At the front of the boiler there is a large cast weight which also serves to clamp the boiler onto the cast metal running plate. This may be cut down to retain just the bottom 3 or 4 mm for its clamp function. Then in goes the lead, I use blocks shaped by hammer to fit closely (excellent therapy if any politician or other public figure is provoking some ire) and place it fore and aft to achieve the balance. It is possible to get these locos above 600g, but I suspect 500g or thereabouts will be enough for most purposes.

 

The leading coupled wheelset is sprung, and the spring action on all I have purchased is too soft. Stretching the spring by about 70% does the job of preventing the loco pitching on the centre wheelset as it runs. The spring load on the carrying wheels is excessive, especially on the rear truck wheelset. Just 20% of the spring length as supplied (uncompressed it's about 15mm long) and then lightly stretch this small piece, and you are done. (Reuse this spring in pieces to supply the bogie post spring that is usually absent from Hornby's pacific chassis.)

 

I have no idea what currently produced A1's are like, but on all I have seen the tender drawbar and fall plate arrangements had to be altered so that the rear end of the loco is not resting on the tender. The A2s that I have seen are free of this problem.

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The leading coupled wheelset is sprung, and the spring action on all I have purchased is too soft. Stretching the spring by about 70% does the job of preventing the loco pitching on the centre wheelset as it runs. The spring load on the carrying wheels is excessive, especially on the rear truck wheelset. Just 20% of the spring length as supplied (uncompressed it's about 15mm long) and then lightly stretch this small piece, and you are done. (Reuse this spring in pieces to supply the bogie post spring that is usually absent from Hornby's pacific chassis.)

 

 

I have found that the spring on my Tornado does nothing (no travel to it) and on my A2 (Blue Peter) the centre driver recess is actually deeper than both front and rear (therefore axle floats), and the spring on front driver is not doing anything. I do wonder if this was corrected on later batches. Haven't actually had Happy Knight out of the box ever to check it...

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The adjustment of the leading driver spring applies equally to A1 and A2. The only A2s I have had to work on are 'Happy Knights' and 'Irish Elegances'. The A2 is noticeably quieter running than the A1, and it's probably because the geared axle isn't loaded on the rail.

 

As a general note on Bach steam models that have the good feature of a sprung driven axle (or even two as on the WD) every single one has benefitted from having this adjusted in one or more ways: stretching the spring or fitting a stiffer spring, packing to reduce travel, slightly notching keeper plate sides to increase downward travel. A good feature, but not carefully implemented and sadly now dropped, the last new introduction with it appears to have been the A2. (Unless someone knows differently, I only buy for myselfthose of their steam models that might be seen on the ECML, and get to seesome  LMS/LMR oriented friend's items, so am far from having seen them all.)

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They inevitably got covered in dirt in operation alright, though in the case of the pacifics out of Top Shed, never to the extent of losing all indication of green paint beneath, and typically much better than that. Sadly the equally lovely V2s were typically mucky, except 'Arrer' which was a Top Shed pet engine and it showed. That much from childhood memory, how much we loved those gleaming green monsters doing their thing so wonderfully. It's good to see a Doncaster design pacific out on the main line now, but they are never going fast enough to generate the deep bass pulsation 'whum, whum, whum' that we could hear in the distance as every up express approached.

 

I later learned that the spectacularly filthy Doncaster pacifics were largely associated with York, which apparently had no end of trouble finding staff, with New England the acknowledged champions for neglecting their V2s exterior appearance.

While we’re talking an LMS design rather than these east coast greyhounds, I do recognise the sound you’re describing. Two years ago I stood line side at Fala summit

whilst 46100 approached, climbing to the summit and while she wasn’t travelling all that fast, maybe 35-40, that three cylinder bass resonance was very evident. It appeared to make the ground tremble and it was felt as much as heard. This wasn’t something I’d previously encountered watching steam but I found it truly impressive.

D4

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I have one of each class.  Great Central (A1) and Happy Knight (A2).  The A1 is boxed away at the moment so I can't check for the issues you mention but the A2 looks fine to me, seen here on my layout (apologies for phone pic).

 

post-1115-0-88915800-1520518166_thumb.jpg

 

One thing that irritates with the A2 is the tender coupling.  I can't use the (preferable) close coupling hole on the tender draw bar without getting erratic running.  Works fine on the other (gaping gap) hole.  One of your correspondents mentioned this issue I think.  I would be extremely grateful if he would describe the solution in detail.

 

Regards,

Brian.

 

PS Love your photo-shopping my friend.

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...One thing that irritates with the A2 is the tender coupling.  I can't use the (preferable) close coupling hole on the tender draw bar without getting erratic running.  Works fine on the other (gaping gap) hole.  One of your correspondents mentioned this issue I think.  I would be extremely grateful if he would describe the solution in detail...

 Brian,

 

That might be me?

 

Unfortunately the A1 and A2 (and many other of their tender locos) lack the fully adjustable slide applied to the loco to tender link on more recent introductions, so we have to resort to DIY. On the 'two hole' drawbar Bachmann appear to have no standard for what the closer spacing hole is intended for in operation*, so it is a case of the owner evaluating the loco and tender combination on the smallest radius curve of the layout. My approach for spacing the loco to tender at scale separation - or as nearly so as possible - for best appearance, is one of two methods:

 

Retain the supplied drawbar, cut off the plastic tender 'peg' it engages on, and replace it with a self tapper through whichever drawbar hole is most convenient to semi-permanently couple loco and tender. It is often necessary to slacken off the securing screw holding down the ballast weight inside the tender to avoid fouling the self tapper. That's been my choice on the A1 and A2. The self tapper positioned about 0.5mm forward of the centre of the original 'peg' enables these locos to work around the 30" minimum radius in one loco yard using the closer coupling hole. (I leave my locos on the layout so this semi-permanent coupling is no inconvenience.)

 

Alternatively if the tender peg is retained, make a replacement drawbar to provide the required spacing.

 

 

* Two examples covering the extremes of the 'closer spacing' hole in the drawbar.

BR std 4MT 2-6-0, the tender as supplied could not be coupled on at the closer spacing, because the moulded on intermediate buffers fouled the rear of the loco.

BR std 9F, the closer spacing hole provided enough distance between loco and tender that the ensemble was capable of set track curves.

Not to be misunderstood, I applaud Bachmann's provision of the drawbar in the correct position and of an easily modifiable design: but the detail execution has been somewhat 'wayward'. The fix of putting the tender peg on a screw locked adjustable slide has happily fixed this on more recent introductions.

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