Bachmann Peppercorn A1 and A2 general qualities

[Brian D]

 Brian,

 

That might be me?

 

Unfortunately the A1 and A2 (and many other of their tender locos) lack the fully adjustable slide applied to the loco to tender link on more recent introductions, so we have to resort to DIY. On the 'two hole' drawbar Bachmann appear to have no standard for what the closer spacing hole is intended for in operation*, so it is a case of the owner evaluating the loco and tender combination on the smallest radius curve of the layout. My approach for spacing the loco to tender at scale separation - or as nearly so as possible - for best appearance, is one of two methods:

 

Retain the supplied drawbar, cut off the plastic tender 'peg' it engages on, and replace it with a self tapper through whichever drawbar hole is most convenient to semi-permanently couple loco and tender. It is often necessary to slacken off the securing screw holding down the ballast weight inside the tender to avoid fouling the self tapper. That's been my choice on the A1 and A2. The self tapper positioned about 0.5mm forward of the centre of the original 'peg' enables these locos to work around the 30" minimum radius in one loco yard using the closer coupling hole. (I leave my locos on the layout so this semi-permanent coupling is no inconvenience.)

 

Alternatively if the tender peg is retained, make a replacement drawbar to provide the required spacing.

 

 

* Two examples covering the extremes of the 'closer spacing' hole in the drawbar.

BR std 4MT 2-6-0, the tender as supplied could not be coupled on at the closer spacing, because the moulded on intermediate buffers fouled the rear of the loco.

BR std 9F, the closer spacing hole provided enough distance between loco and tender that the ensemble was capable of set track curves.

Not to be misunderstood, I applaud Bachmann's provision of the drawbar in the correct position and of an easily modifiable design: but the detail execution has been somewhat 'wayward'. The fix of putting the tender peg on a screw locked adjustable slide has happily fixed this on more recent introductions.

 

Dear 34C, thank you so much for your detailed reply to my query.  I will certainly investigate this further on my Happy Knight.

Apologies to RobMCG for hijacking your thread.

 

Regards,

Brian. 

[robmcg]

Dear 34C, thank you so much for your detailed reply to my query.  I will certainly investigate this further on my Happy Knight.

Apologies to RobMCG for hijacking your thread.

 

Regards,

Brian. 

 

Not a problem and most interesting, as I have had a couple of Bachmann models where the plastic peg under the tender floor for the tender coupling has sheered off. In models with plastic shroud packaging and presumably were coupled while in the shroud and then travelling by airmail with vibration and the bad luck to be vertical and pointing downwards, with the weight of the engine pulling on the pin.  At least that's one possible scenario.

 

cheers

[robmcg]

You can't really be other than impressed by the 'presence' of an A1 even when it is on shed between turns, here is 60128 'Bongrace' at Haymarket, and it shows what a fine model the Bachmann version is, not a lot of editing on this.

 

[DonnyRailMan]

On 24/02/2018 at 20:52, robmcg said:

just to add to my admiration of the Peppercorn Pacifics and the Bachmann models, here are a few pics of them, edited of course.

 

 

A2 60532 'Blue Peter'.

 

 

A2 60533 'Happy Knight'

 

 

A2 60533 'Happy Knight' weathered.

 

 

A1 60157 at speed, 

 

 

A1 60114 'W P Allen' frosty morning.

 

 

A1 60147 'North Eastern' weathered.  Gateshead engine! <g>

 

 

60157 again, who said the ER had dirty express engines?  

 

and too finish, the real McCoy!   LNER A2 526 'Sugar Palm'   these engines should all have had double chimneys and blastpipes from the word go, shame on the BTC.

 

 

cheers

Great photos once again Rob 

[DonnyRailMan]

Some of the Bachmann A2s are showing DCC Ready 21 pin some 8 pin.

Other than 13 extra pins what is the actual difference.  

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

To the best of my knowledge when Bachmann use a 21 pin socket on a steam loco, it will be in the tender. This is convenient as removing the tender top for access is typically much simpler than removing the loco body. Not seen an A2 with the 21 pin decoder socket, must be quite a recent change?

 

Functionally in a  UK steam loco with no lights, smoke or other features to operate, either socket will do equally well. If I prefer the eight pin socket it is because until recently there was a price premium on 21 pin decoders as compared to 8 pin equivalents (so I would by pass the 21 pin socket and hardwire a wired decoder to save a little cash!).

[DonnyRailMan]

18 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

To the best of my knowledge when Bachmann use a 21 pin socket on a steam loco, it will be in the tender. This is convenient as removing the tender top for access is typically much simpler than removing the loco body. Not seen an A2 with the 21 pin decoder socket, must be quite a recent change?

 

Functionally in a  UK steam loco with no lights, smoke or other features to operate, either socket will do equally well. If I prefer the eight pin socket it is because until recently there was a price premium on 21 pin decoders as compared to 8 pin equivalents (so I would by pass the 21 pin socket and hardwire a wired decoder to save a little cash!).

Thank you for your reply.

[Covkid]

Apologies for awaking this old thread but I have just seen a youtube video online of 60532 on Crewe depot back in steam after it's major overhaul.  Probably in undercoat BR express passenger blue without any lining yet, but has the large Scottish numbers on the cabside.  Clearly needs some fettling as at one point it slipped whilst shunting around the depot.  I am guessing it will be heading to a preserved line for some running in, but I am assuming Bachmann will release a new version of it in the next two years. 

 

A truly beautifully proportioned steam loco, and the driving wheels look far more "sensible" than those on "Tornado" !!

[No Decorum]

21 hours ago, Covkid said:

Apologies for awaking this old thread but I have just seen a youtube video online of 60532 on Crewe depot back in steam after it's major overhaul.  Probably in undercoat BR express passenger blue without any lining yet, but has the large Scottish numbers on the cabside.  Clearly needs some fettling as at one point it slipped whilst shunting around the depot.  I am guessing it will be heading to a preserved line for some running in, but I am assuming Bachmann will release a new version of it in the next two years. 

 

A truly beautifully proportioned steam loco, and the driving wheels look far more "sensible" than those on "Tornado" !!

I’ve seen that – the blue is beautiful and will look even better with the lining applied. I wonder if Bachmann would produce a model. I love Bachmann’s Peppercorns but I can foresee an unenthusiastic reception if the old tooling is re-used. On the other hand, the reception the retooled V2 got might put Bachmann off the idea of a retool. I wonder what the Bachmann people are thinking or even if they are thinking about it at all.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTbXCXIaDnI

Edited March 16 by No Decorum
Added video link.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

So long as they were to dump the malfunctioning camming loco to tender link seen on the V2 a new Pepp A2 should be OK. I would hope that if a new tooling were considered, Bachmann might follow Hornby's lead by giving the one Doncaster pacific they 'own' outright a largely metal loco body.

 

And since they would be adding brass bearings to the drivers, they might as well take just over a millimetre out of the coupled wheelbase, to get as close to scale as Hornby managed on the P2. That might in turn offer the space for a slight increase to scale length of the cylinder block. The user optional sprung flanged wheelset for the Cartazzi truck as executed on the V2 would be good, and finally to couple the tender on, let's have the screw locked slide spacing adjustment that appeared on all the steam tender models released since the A2, only to be abruptly dropped - kerlunk - for the V2's camming link which should only be consigned to the outer darkness at express speed. Opportunity for incremental improvements in short.

[MikeParkin65]

On 16/03/2024 at 09:11, No Decorum said:

I’ve seen that – the blue is beautiful and will look even better with the lining applied. I wonder if Bachmann would produce a model. I love Bachmann’s Peppercorns but I can foresee an unenthusiastic reception if the old tooling is re-used. On the other hand, the reception the retooled V2 got might put Bachmann off the idea of a retool. I wonder what the Bachmann people are thinking or even if they are thinking about it at all.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTbXCXIaDnI

 

On 16/03/2024 at 17:01, 34theletterbetweenB&amp;D said:

So long as they were to dump the malfunctioning camming loco to tender link seen on the V2 a new Pepp A2 should be OK. I would hope that if a new tooling were considered, Bachmann might follow Hornby's lead by giving the one Doncaster pacific they 'own' outright a largely metal loco body.

 

And since they would be adding brass bearings to the drivers, they might as well take just over a millimetre out of the coupled wheelbase, to get as close to scale as Hornby managed on the P2. That might in turn offer the space for a slight increase to scale length of the cylinder block. The user optional sprung flanged wheelset for the Cartazzi truck as executed on the V2 would be good, and finally to couple the tender on, let's have the screw locked slide spacing adjustment that appeared on all the steam tender models released since the A2, only to be abruptly dropped - kerlunk - for the V2's camming link which should only be consigned to the outer darkness at express speed. Opportunity for incremental improvements in short.

Agree with @34theletterbetweenB&D - the slow selling of the V2 is largely because of its flawed 'innovations' (the huge cam loco to tender coupling along with not making the most of the resultant DCC potential by not putting a big speaker in the tender and a smaller one in the smokebox), some detailing discrepancies (the badly fitting smokebox door and the row of rivets too far back, the heavy valve gear and rods, the chunky join twixt boiler and cab) along with a high price and not producing the most common and desired variant (BR Green late crest, single chimney,  not named). 

 

A state of the art A1 and A2 range done properly would surely sell (and address the flaws in the V2 at the same time please). 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

26 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

A state of the art A1 and A2 range done properly would surely sell

And it is not as though there is no competition, looking for subjects. I would give priority to the A1, which was a very early 'Blue Riband' introduction and easily the best pacific model seen up that time in RTR OO. (The A2 model looks better than the A1, inherent to the protoype design which has neater proportions.)

[G-BOAF]

Re the A2, I don't believe it necessarily needs a complete retool. 

What it DOES need is a chassis update (bearings, potentially, fixed Cartazzi as per the V2 and Hornby pacifics), tender pickups (but no cam mechanism please - two holes for close/2nd radius coupling is fine), and a modification of the front end of the running plate to move the centre cylinder cover forward. The boiler washout plugs also need to be made smaller. 

Beyond this, it really looks like an A2.

 

The A1 I would say just needs the chassis upgrade.

 

And then Bachmann please make a batch of chassis blocks available as spares....!

[No Decorum]

13 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

Re the A2, I don't believe it necessarily needs a complete retool. 

What it DOES need is a chassis update (bearings, potentially, fixed Cartazzi as per the V2 and Hornby pacifics), tender pickups (but no cam mechanism please - two holes for close/2nd radius coupling is fine), and a modification of the front end of the running plate to move the centre cylinder cover forward. The boiler washout plugs also need to be made smaller. 

Beyond this, it really looks like an A2.

 

The A1 I would say just needs the chassis upgrade.

 

And then Bachmann please make a batch of chassis blocks available as spares....!

As for the Cartazzi, Bachmann did it properly with the V2. Hornby has released far too many wide-firebox models where the flanged wheels (not always provided) are not functional but suitable only for display. The A1 might not be too hard a job. I haven’t looked at the innards but I have an A1 factory fitted with sound. Lovely models.

 

[MikeParkin65]

16 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

As for the Cartazzi, Bachmann did it properly with the V2. Hornby has released far too many wide-firebox models where the flanged wheels (not always provided) are not functional but suitable only for display. The A1 might not be too hard a job. I haven’t looked at the innards but I have an A1 factory fitted with sound. Lovely models.

 

This thread prompted me to get an A1 and the most recent V2 out of storage for a run. Both very sweet runners but the Cartazzi under the latest V2 is definitely the way forward. The V2 is also factory sound fitted - its a really good sound project, very responsive to control inputs and with a proper 'attack' to the exhaust as you open it up. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 hour ago, No Decorum said:

Hornby has released far too many wide-firebox models where the flanged wheels (not always provided) are not functional but suitable only for display.

Slight deviation from subject, all my Hornby wide firebox fixed rear truck frame models to date - A3, A4, W1,P2 BRstd 7MT- operate with the supplied flanged wheelset(s) installed (following internal carving and other mods as required for a 30" minimum radius layout. Bachmann's V2 arrangement was a very pleasant surprise.

[Tiddles47]

Can anyone help please? I want to add a speedo drive to my BP. Using bachmanns std 5 speedo, what screw would i need to fit it or will the 1 thats already there suffice?  Or wll a Hornby speedo fit  just as well?  Thanks :) 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

39 minutes ago, Tiddles47 said:

...I want to add a speedo drive to my BP...

Don't attempt using the Bachmann Std 5MT arrangement. (Bachmann only applied this to the BR stds, 4MT tank and 5MT, and wisely dropped it from models tooled thereafter, due to its aptitude for making smooth running mechanisms into three legged dogs, the first time the body had to be taken off the mechanism. Patient fiddling required to get the drive crank perfectly realigned with the axle centre.)

 

Far the better way is to have a rigid representation of the mechanism from the footplate underside  to outside the wheel centre, with no connection to the axle. (Hornby have done it in this style on the LNER P2, very effective.)

[Tiddles47]

29 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&amp;D said:

Don't attempt using the Bachmann Std 5MT arrangement. (Bachmann only applied this to the BR stds, 4MT tank and 5MT, and wisely dropped it from models tooled thereafter, due to its aptitude for making smooth running mechanisms into three legged dogs, the first time the body had to be taken off the mechanism. Patient fiddling required to get the drive crank perfectly realigned with the axle centre.)

 

Far the better way is to have a rigid representation of the mechanism from the footplate underside  to outside the wheel centre, with no connection to the axle. (Hornby have done it in this style on the LNER P2, very effective.)

thanks :) 

 

[sirwilliamfrs]

I have mentioned to Bachmann in the past the possibility of them producing no. 60539 BRONZINO, the last A2 built, fitted with a double chimney, Kylchap blastpipe and no multiple-valve regulator, unlike the others with double chimneys. It  performed very well in tests against A1 60114, was a favourite of enginemen and widely believed to be the best of the class. It would make a third version of the A2 and hopefully a popular one with only minor alterations.

[davidw]

 

Just musing 

 

The Bachmann A1/A2 models are good representationsof the class. But TBH there's lots of room for improvement. Body and Chassis. The Chassis has been mentioned, absenton the body is the cab window deflectors. The handrail and knobs are over scale.  

 

These would seem small improvements but overall a better model would result

 

Of course these days with the price of pacifcs I'd hesitate to replace the versions I have.

Edited April 2 by davidw

[No Decorum]

54 minutes ago, davidw said:

 

Just musing 

 

The Bachmann A1/A2 models are good representationsof the class. But TBH there's lots of room for improvement. Body and Chassis. The Chassis has been mentioned, absenton the body is the cab window deflectors. The handrail and knobs are over scale.  

 

These would seem small improvements but overall a better model would result

 

Of course these days with the price of pacifcs I'd hesitate to replace the versions I have.

I certainly wouldn’t replace mine. However, I haven’t an A2 in express blue and I’d be very happy to buy one. With Blue Peter emerging in blue, it would be a good time for Bachmann to produce one.

[45568]

1 hour ago, davidw said:

 

 

1 hour ago, davidw said:

Of course these days with the price of pacifcs I'd hesitate to replace the versions I have.

Exactly David, new prices would be 200GBP + and would the improvements be that noticeable? I would have 6 to replace!! The old models still hold their price on Ebay.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On 30/03/2024 at 16:38, sirwilliamfrs said:

I have mentioned to Bachmann in the past the possibility of them producing no. 60539 BRONZINO, the last A2 built, fitted with a double chimney, Kylchap blastpipe and no multiple-valve regulator, unlike the others with double chimneys...

You and me both! That name is one of the most stylish from the Doncaster pacific collection too; as anyone who has seen Bronzino's 'The Lady in Green' (appropriate, huh?) in the Royal Collection can confirm.

[davidw]

59 minutes ago, 45568 said:

 

Exactly David, new prices would be 200GBP + and would the improvements be that noticeable? I would have 6 to replace!! The old models still hold their price on Ebay.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

I'd have 9 to  replace.

Edited April 2 by davidw