RMweb Gold Nickey Line Posted March 2, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 2, 2018 I've recently started building a Slater's BR 20T Brake Van kit, and come across an issue which I hope someone will be able to clear up for me. I'm posting here instead of in the 'Help' section as it's a very specific query which I feel is more likely to reach the right audience here... The issue is with regard to the ballast weights which fit on each end, in front of the verandah ends. The instructions state that etched plates should be fitted (without punching rivet detail) and then fitting cast white metal weights on top. That's all very well, but the kit does not have any white metal parts at all, and it would appear that the weights are now moulded in plastic. I suspect that these replace both the etched plates and the white metal parts; would I be correct? Or should the etched plates still be fitted first? It's my guess that the etched plates are redundant...? Thanks for your help, in anticipation... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 I had a similar issue with mine Adrian. I recall sticking things down with CA only to have to tear it all up again. It is a bit confusing. Here's my build thread for what its worth: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/118951-slaters-7033-dia-61-lner-brake-van/ Mines in AVB fitted ex LNER condition or as near as I could get it. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nickey Line Posted March 2, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 2, 2018 I had a similar issue with mine Adrian. I recall sticking things down with CA only to have to tear it all up again. It is a bit confusing. Here's my build thread for what its worth: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/118951-slaters-7033-dia-61-lner-brake-van/ Mines in AVB fitted ex LNER condition or as near as I could get it. John I take it you didn't fit the etched plates then? Hope my end result looks as good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Ha ha, thats what I had to remove with great difficulty. Thanks John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nickey Line Posted March 2, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 2, 2018 Ha ha, thats what I had to remove with great difficulty. Thanks John Good job I asked the question then! Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Adrian, I would recommend that you look at as many pictures as you can. I find Paul Bartletts collection very useful: http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagons If you type "br built brake vans" into Google, you will get a plethora of pictures of the real thing and models. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nickey Line Posted March 3, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2018 Adrian, I would recommend that you look at as many pictures as you can. I find Paul Bartletts collection very useful: http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagons If you type "br built brake vans" into Google, you will get a plethora of pictures of the real thing and models. John Indeed already done both these... wouldn't have helped with my query though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted March 3, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 3, 2018 I was given a part-built one of these to finish off. I did fit the brass bits, put some lead in the voids at the end and underneath and then made up the under-floor detail from photos. I also backdated the kit to a NE original. Don't know if these photos help at all... 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Erm.....are you going to rename the layout Axminster now ? P.Lasticruler Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nickey Line Posted March 3, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2018 I was given a part-built one of these to finish off. I did fit the brass bits, put some lead in the voids at the end and underneath and then made up the under-floor detail from photos. I also backdated the kit to a NE original. Don't know if these photos help at all... Hmmm, I was coming to the conclusion that either the brass plate OR the plastic weight should be fitted, but not both.. Either way, I don't think the NE version should have the weights Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted March 3, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 3, 2018 I was under the impression they didn’t have weights as well but plenty of photos of vans with short running boards and weights on Paul Bartlett’s (again indespensible) site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted March 3, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 3, 2018 Hmmm, I was coming to the conclusion that either the brass plate OR the plastic weight should be fitted, but not both.. Either way, I don't think the NE version should have the weights Depends on the brake van and your period. Some had weights, some didn't. The prototype I based my model on certainly had them. I'm off the PC now so don't have the photos but here's an LNER example with the weights: http://www.ws.vintagecarriagestrust.org/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=8300 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted March 3, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 3, 2018 I was under the impression they didn’t have weights as well but plenty of photos of vans with short running boards and weights on Paul Bartlett’s (again indespensible) site. Yes, plenty on Paul's very useful site with them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted March 3, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 3, 2018 OK, looked this up. As originally designed 1929 the brake vans were weighted with iron and just had plated ends. As WW2 progressed the scrap was wanted for other uses and concrete was used instead. Concrete is less dense than iron and therefore all the weight could not be accommodated between the frames and extra slabs were added to the ends. Photos in the Tatlow book on LNER wagons show a 1936 example with no concrete and 1944/46 examples with the extra concrete. Presumably the design change was a little earlier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nickey Line Posted March 3, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2018 Depends on the brake van and your period. Some had weights, some didn't. The prototype I based my model on certainly had them. I'm off the PC now so don't have the photos but here's an LNER example with the weights: http://www.ws.vintagecarriagestrust.org/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=8300 I'll confess I had only investigated the BR 1/504 version, it seems the original 061 didn't have the extra weights, and some never did. I still think, though, that as far as the kit is concerned, the brass plate is redundant if fitting the now plastic, once white metal weight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted March 3, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 3, 2018 I'll confess I had only investigated the BR 1/504 version, it seems the original 061 didn't have the extra weights, and some never did. I still think, though, that as far as the kit is concerned, the brass plate is redundant if fitting the now plastic, once white metal weight. Some LNER did have the weights, see my explanation above taken from the Tatlow LNER wagons book. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bezzy Oppo Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 A Faverdale BR Standard 20 ton - built '52. Three link couplings for sale! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nickey Line Posted March 3, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2018 (edited) Some LNER did have the weights, see my explanation above taken from the Tatlow LNER wagons book. Yes, I understand that; however, I think you might be missing the point... the kit has been modified but the instructions have not been updated to reflect this change, i.e. the white metal weight being replaced with a plastic moulding, which I think incorporates some of the detail from the plate. Hope that clears things up! Edited March 3, 2018 by whinge-n-moan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bezzy Oppo Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 End weights shown here, each had 14 three link couplings and angle incorporated in them. Concrete was flint rich, hence eventually resorted to JCB attachment that rhymes with decker but isn't allowed to be typed on RMWeb! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nickey Line Posted March 3, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2018 End weights shown here, each had 14 three link couplings and angle incorporated in them. Concrete was flint rich, hence eventually resorted to JCB attachment that rhymes with decker but isn't allowed to be typed on RMWeb! Crikey! So who's going to model that?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium wagonbasher Posted March 3, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 3, 2018 End weights shown here, each had 14 three link couplings and angle incorporated in them. Concrete was flint rich, hence eventually resorted to JCB attachment that rhymes with decker but isn't allowed to be typed on RMWeb! IMG_1077.JPG Wow... what scale are you modelling? Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmodelmonkey Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Having built a Slater's brake van had similar issues with ends not sitting correctly etc. The kit finally made up into a nice model but not straight forward and took more time and effort to complete than expected. Consdering all this and the high cost of the kit my next brake vans will be coming from Dapol fully finished. Regards GMM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nickey Line Posted March 4, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 4, 2018 Having built a Slater's brake van had similar issues with ends not sitting correctly etc. The kit finally made up into a nice model but not straight forward and took more time and effort to complete than expected. Consdering all this and the high cost of the kit my next brake vans will be coming from Dapol fully finished. Regards GMM That's encouraging... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Agree GMM. Slaters brakes are quite tricky I've found. Parkside more so because I can't make the plastic step hangers work and replaced then with brass on mine. At least Slaters provide cast hangers. Yes, I'm looking out for Dapols BR van as well. John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) Agree GMM. Slaters brakes are quite tricky I've found. Parkside more so because I can't make the plastic step hangers work and replaced then with brass on mine. At least Slaters provide cast hangers. Yes, I'm looking out for Dapols BR van as well. John I thought it better to chuck the plastic footboards away and cut new ones from brass. They were soldered in place and have never shown any tendency to fall off. Incidentally I think it's a shame that Slater's have replaced the white-metal weights with plastic. On the model the weights performed the same function as on the real thing. I also replaced the steps on the SR CCT with brass ones for the same reason. Of course there is always the Connoisseur kit for the BR 20T brake, which I much prefer as a kit. The left hand van was finished as ex-LNER, the other as a BR version. Spot the difference! Chaz Edited March 15, 2018 by chaz 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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