Fleischmann to end HO scale from 2019.

[steventrain]

I just saw this on a German forum:

 

The ‘Modelleisenbahn Gruppe’ is going to relocate their production from Gloggnitz-Austria to Slovakia.
This will lead to a reduction of 52 of the 107 employees by the end of 2018.
And also; Fleischmann H0 will no longer be available from 2019. 

 

I think this is really sad. Fleischmann was one of the major brands when I was a kid.

Link in German text https://www.ots.at/presseaussendung/OTS_20180302_OTS0103/spritzgussproduktion-wird-aus-gloggnitz-in-die-slowakei-verlagert

[woodenhead]

It's more a separation of brands - HO will continue under the ROCO brand which has the more modern toolings whilst Fleischmann focuses on N scale.

 

I suppose it's a bit like Bachmann having Branchline and Farish.

[Allegheny1600]

There has been a lot of crossing over between the two brands since the robbery takeover of Fleischmann but I thought Roco models had been being produced in E. Europe for some time now. Wasn't this one of the main reasons why their quality dipped for a period?

Bl00dy financiers and bankers!

[Horsetan]

?...Fleischmann H0 will no longer be available from 2019. 

 

I think this is really sad. Fleischmann was one of the major brands when I was a kid....

Their wheel flanges were pure comedy, though. Still are, to a certain extent.

[jjb1970]

A terrible shame, Fleischmann are one of the great names of the hobby. I don't think either Roco or Fleischmann has really got over the problems they've gone through over the last couple of decades and lots of new entrants have been eating into their markets. Not to mention Piko have been shaking the tree and disrupting the HO market.

[Oldddudders]

Wasn’t Gloggnitz the engine shed for bankers over the Semmering Pass?

[Allegheny1600]

Their wheel flanges were pure comedy, though. Still are, to a certain extent.

Really?

Any need for this kind of comment? 

It's not useful you know.

[tetsudofan]

.... and some Fleischmann stuff is now being made in Vietnam.

 

Keith

[adb968008]

As is some Roco stuff made in Vietnam.

 

Fleischmanns time in HO has come though, it’s been at the back of the pack for a while and Roco is the stronger one in HO.

That said Roco doesn’t face the easiest ride, Piko bitten hard, and there’s some stronger brands out there eating Roco prototypes too in the high stakes detail ranges.

 

52 staff and all production in Austria to end, increase in staff to 135 in Vietnam, with high end made in Slovakia. Tools development / research to remain in Austria.

Edited March 3, 2018 by adb968008

[jjb1970]

At one time Roco were pretty much the gold standard of European HO, they offered finer detail and fidelity to prototype than rival RTR and were priced below many of their rivals to boot. At one time the price of Fleischmann in the UK was silly, you could buy Fleischmann for not much more than half the price of the same model here. Roco were much more attractively priced here and were better models.

 

Nowadays however I find companies like ACME and LS are beating Roco at one end of the market and Piko are snapping at them from the other direction. I think the Piko Br103 is a better model than the Roco one and it's cheaper. I like Italian HO and companies like Leeds and Lima Expert have made models which are way better than Roco equivalents at much lower prices.

 

Roco seems to be in a similar spot to M&S, the former market leader struggling against competition on all sides.

[adb968008]

At one time Roco were pretty much the gold standard of European HO, they offered finer detail and fidelity to prototype than rival RTR and were priced below many of their rivals to boot. At one time the price of Fleischmann in the UK was silly, you could buy Fleischmann for not much more than half the price of the same model here. Roco were much more attractively priced here and were better models.

Nowadays however I find companies like ACME and LS are beating Roco at one end of the market and Piko are snapping at them from the other direction. I think the Piko Br103 is a better model than the Roco one and it's cheaper. I like Italian HO and companies like Leeds and Lima Expert have made models which are way better than Roco equivalents at much lower prices.

Roco seems to be in a similar spot to M&S, the former market leader struggling against competition on all sides.

Indeed but it’s a tough way out.

 

They hold the old tools, the competitor holds the new.

If they retooled and duplicate, they will face higher costs and a split market.

There’s not too many new markets to explore in Europe.

 

I think one route Roco could explore is more niche steam types as Piko seems to be shying away from this.. MAVs 424, CSD’s 375/475 and PKPs ol49/pt47... expensive but thus far without competition, for sure making yet another BR01 isnt going to do it.

Edited March 3, 2018 by adb968008

[readingtype]

I think this is an example of the comedy referred to above. It really spoils a neat model (excuse undercoat and state of partial disassembly, another story). I acquired the loco cheaply, which partially explains the repaint, and I am thinking about whether to replace the wheels.

 

Has anyone had dealings with Holger Graeler, who I hear offers a service of reprofiling/replacing commercial h0 wheels? If I succeed in transacting with him then I'll post a photo of the non-comedic replacements.

[Mike at C&M]

Wasn’t Gloggnitz the engine shed for bankers over the Semmering Pass?

Yes.

 

A wonderful place name, just like Murzzuschlag on the other side of the pass.

[Oldddudders]

Yes.

 

A wonderful place name, just like Murzzuschlag on the other side of the pass.

Sadly by the time I visited in 1967 it was electric - but at least I’d seen a few Kriegsloks around Graz.

[jjb1970]

Some of the older Roco tooling is often to be found at very attractive prices and most of it stands up remarkably well. OK they're not as good as the latest high end equivalents but they have a good mech, generally good detail and capture the look of the prototype very well. 1990's Roco HO wasn't like pre-China 90's OO and the tooling from that era still works well. Kind of like a "railroad deluxe" tier of models. To be honest, I've found myself more likely to buy these older models as they're very good value, at the higher end I tend to go for manufacturers like ACME and LS and I have found myself getting a few Piko Expert models and am extremely happy with them.

[Oldddudders]

Roco used to - maybe still do - manufacture for the US market. In the ‘80s, their HO FP7, GP38 and GP40 models for Atlas were sufficiently accurate to be best-sellers, and had lovely robust mechs for the time. It was only when Stewart Hobbies contracted with Kato for even more delicious mechs, with excellent model-specific bodies, that the Roco products lost some appeal by comparison..

[rue_d_etropal]

What is happening with the track. In my opinion the Fleischmann is better than the Roco. The only issue with the Fleischmann, and itmight also be a problem with other continental brands is the smaller radius, which some newer models don't like.

Some might not some of the steam roller characteristics of the older models, but they do run, and stay on the track. For a exhibition layout this is far more important than just looking pretty sitting in a display canbinet.

[Bernard Lamb]

Their wheel flanges were pure comedy, though. Still are, to a certain extent.

 

I replace the leading and trailing wheels with Gibson.

That will have the purists screaming.

I have a BR 78 and a BR86 that are rather good examples of the problem.

They actually could be used for slitting pasta,

Bernard

[Vecchio]

The production in Gloggnitz was mainly trackwork. Points have been assembled by women (and men) at home to get some extra cash and Roco didn't have to provide them office space. As much as I love Roco I moved to Peco trackwork some 25years ago.

And yes- Gloggnitz was and is the station where trains over the Semmering got their second locomotive to get over the pass in case of heavy trains. I grew up (minimum at the school holidays) next to the train line at Klamm. So I know the area and also Gloggnitz quite well as this was the town to go shopping.

Vecchio

[Legend]

Wow. I suppose this insight into the European market helps put Hornbys UK issues in perspective . Can't believe we are going to lose Fleischmann as an HO brand . I just remember studying the lavish catalogues in the 70s and 80s planning my European super layout . Impressed by the sheer range of models and accessories .

[Steamysandy]

I built a Fleischmann HO layout between 1975 and 1981.I was into European trains at that time but I got married and son came along so I sold it.What killed it for me was that the prices shot up and while I had the idea of starting over again it was never a realistic proposition so Mk2 never happened.I liked it and I remember "Which" and it's German counterpart doing a consumer report on model trains about that time.Top was Fleischmann and bottom was---- Hornby!

So sorry to hear it's going

[rue_d_etropal]

I would have thought it made sense to keep the brand name. Yes  they will continue with N gauge,but it should not just be used for that.

I agree that Peco track is still better, but Peco don't do a version with ballast. I have aquired some Fleischmann track for a layout which will pack down into a small box, and it is just what I require. It will still need weathering,etc. Just a pity the track geometry is not the same as Peco. The tighter radius of Fleischmann does not suit many of the models now being produced, but that is not the fault of the track but those who want models that look better(and break easier!). As I have said before, I want something that actually works.

Talking of track, it should be remembered that Roco used to do the track for Hornby(quality???), and developed the new track for Hornby, before they decided to move track production to China and produce their own. Bachmann picked up what Roco had designed, and as far as I know Roco are still producing the British track for Bachmann. Again, it is not as good as Peco, and also has some of the disadvantages of Peco such as self isolating points, and unsprung tiebars. One reason I have used Fleischmann in the past was to build passing loops, where I did not have to keep changing point setting.

[jjb1970]

For ballasted track systems I think Kato Unitrak is the best. I prefer Peco and doing my own ballasting, much better visual results can be obtained, but if I was to use one of these ballasted systems (and I recognise they have their place) then it'd be Kato.

[Bernard Lamb]

I built a Fleischmann HO layout between 1975 and 1981.I was into European trains at that time but I got married and son came along so I sold it.What killed it for me was that the prices shot up 

The UK liked a low value £ while in Germany they preferred a high value DM.

Railway modellers come rather low on the governments priority list when such decisions are made.

Bernard

[Allegheny1600]

Sadly, the reality is that the standard of living in Austria and therefore, wages - is much higher than in places further afield.

When competitors like Brawa and Piko can outsource production to China, flying the "Made in Germany/Austria" flag simply does not make commercial sense.

Too few people will buy the "home-made" product in comparison with the much cheaper far eastern produced product.

Example, the recently announced model of the E52;

Piko RRP: €219.99 Fleischmann RRP: €279.00 Both standard DC models with no frills (source: Menzels Lokshuppen). Okay, that's "only" €60 but it's still a lot, especially at this current time. Peoples wallets speak louder than their patriotism.

 

Hopefully, both Roco and Fleischmann's names will stay alive in their respective markets and who knows if this situation will remain forever? In the meantime, I will certainly mourn the loss to H0, of my favourite manufacturer.

John.