RMweb Gold 81C Posted March 5, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) Hi I've purchased some Airfix & Dapol Stanier coaches 4 comps' and 3 Brake 3rds for through coach operations,I'm looking to see if there is anyway of super detailing them to enhance the appearance, I'm constucting a GWR Devon layout and haven't got a clue where to start so would be greatful of some advice apart from binning them working period is 1939-1942 . Thanks Bob Edited March 7, 2018 by 81C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted March 5, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 5, 2018 It all depends what standard you want to achieve. But they are not of a bad standard for something initially produced about 40 years ago. The main problem really is only having two types. For trains to Devon I am sure you really want some all-thirds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jub45565 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) Comet/Wizard do some underframe detailing etches & castings, & South Eastern Finecast do flush glazing. Beyond that there are buffers from Lanarkshire Models & Suppliers, or MJT, & working gangways from Masokits. As Joseph says it depends how far you want to go - & there will be a time when starting again is easier! (Or just using the roof...). Edited to correct autocorrect... Edited March 5, 2018 by Jub45565 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 I used Comet parts to update mine. LMS Suburban Coaches.pdf I would also add that glazing from Shawplan should be part of the upgrade. John 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 81C Posted March 6, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) It all depends what standard you want to achieve. But they are not of a bad standard for something initially produced about 40 years ago. The main problem really is only having two types. For trains to Devon I am sure you really want some all-thirds. I don't want adverse comments once the layout starts getting posting you know want some so call members can be like I can stand my ground on GWR but clueless on LMS, good points raised so far :- overall they are not bad for a 40 y.o. model, all thirds which will come from Comet sides if they fit I've done several Collett conversions, new glazing I'm being told Shaw plan is better the SEFC, buffers are a must several have missing one's changing them can improve appearance, coupling will be altered to the smallest on the market a change to metal wheels and rear lamps will be attached. Can anyone advise on how to get them apart does the roof pop off then lever the 8 tabs? as per most Airfix stock and please could anyone tell me what colour is the seat material for the different classes. Thanks to all who have answered it's helped me to have coaches looking something like the prototypes. Thanks Bob Edited March 6, 2018 by 81C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Hi Bob. Going off my memory here (too lazy to get the book) - these were built for a specific purpose (which I can't recall) and not that many were made. The more common diagrams for LMS NC coaches were done by Hornby two or three years ago. The main difference is the Airfix coaches have lavs and regular NCs don't. Also from memory, I don't think Comet ever did these diagrams. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
balders Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Mainline did a Stanier composite, and a a BSK of which I had three and as a RTR offering in BR maroon with crest. I thought they were very nice. I didn't mod them at all as it was a look I was after as opposed to a true prototype. They ran very well and responded nicely to Bachmann wheels and couplings. Long since moved on as I went to Bachmann MK1's. Replica also did a RTR Stanier open third in maroon from the same tooling stable I'm led to believe and they occasionally come up on the eBays although quite pricey. Regards Guy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Hi Bob. Going off my memory here (too lazy to get the book) - these were built for a specific purpose (which I can't recall) and not that many were made. The more common diagrams for LMS NC coaches were done by Hornby two or three years ago. The main difference is the Airfix coaches have lavs and regular NCs don't. Also from memory, I don't think Comet ever did these diagrams. John They were built as mainline sets for services between major cities such as Liverpool - Manchester, Manchester - Leeds, etc. However they decided that corridor stock was the way to go, so they were downgraded to suburban sets. They were often mixed with older pre grouping stock and non lavatory stock to provide facilities. Quite often used on excursions. Typical sets would be CL+BTL BTL+CL+BTL BTL+CL+CL+BTL It's a bit of a misnomer to call them Stanier coaches as they were built in 1930 two years before Stanier was appointed. Comet also make the earlier versions. M97 Lavatory Brake Third Non-gangwayed D1685 57 foot Built 1926 M98 Lavatory Composite Non-gangwayed D1686 57 foot Built 1926 Unfortunately I don't think anyone makes the D1761 Lavatory First. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 6, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2018 Hi I've purchased some Airfix & Dapol Stainer coaches 4 comps' and 3 Brake 3rds for through coach operations,I'm looking to see if there is anyway of super detailing them to enhance the appearance, I'm constucting a GWR Devon layout and haven't got a clue where to start so would be greatful of some advice apart from binning them working period is 1939-1942 . Thanks Bob There would have been a lot of pre-grouping, LMS Period 1 and Period 2 stock on through trains to the West Country at the start of WW2. There would probably be some of the panelled coaches made by Bachmann in evidence. http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/mrknlms229.htm Even into the 1950s these services seemed to attract a lot of old stock. There is a picture on the Warwickshire Railways site of a M&GN coach at New St in 1952. The next coach is ex-NER. There's also one about somewhere at the same period with an ex-Highland railway coach. For my 1950s 'Excursion' set I am using a variety of old Airfix, Mainline, Replica, Bachmann and Dapol coaches and parts along with Comet sides. The Replica version mentioned above represents Diagram 1915, of which over 300 were built 1935-7. I am currently using Comet sides to convert a Replica one to a Diagram 1913 Open Brake 3rd built 1934. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Don't forget that Dapol also make the old Airfix corridor stock. Available in kit form as well as ready made. An advantage of the kit version is you don't have to dismantle it. 57 foot Brake Third BTK D1905 Built 1934 60 foot Composite CK.D1898 Built 1934 http://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/1000396/1000588/1000636/0/Dapol_OO_Gauge_1_76_Scale_Coaches/prodlist.aspx?sort=5&showPreowned=false&pageid=1 Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted March 6, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 6, 2018 Don't forget that Dapol also make the old Airfix corridor stock. Which may well be what 81C was talking about. I doubt you'd see many inter-district sets on long distance trains to the south west. Hi I've purchased some Airfix & Dapol Stainer coaches 4 comps' and 3 Brake 3rds for through coach operations,I'm looking to see if there is anyway of super detailing them to enhance the appearance, I'm constucting a GWR Devon layout and haven't got a clue where to start so would be greatful of some advice apart from binning them working period is 1939-1942 . Thanks Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Which may well be what 81C was talking about. I doubt you'd see many inter-district sets on long distance trains to the south west. I was thinking that after I posted. As proved by Brossard's pdf they scrub up well with a bit of effort. Jason 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dava Posted March 6, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 6, 2018 It would be nice if the late Sir Bill [stanier] could get his name spelt right on the thread title. How much nvolvement he had with the coach designs is another matter. Though the resemblance of these coaches to the Collett GWR steel-panelled coaches of the same period is remarkable..... Dava Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted March 7, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) Can anyone advise on how to get them apart does the roof pop off then lever the 8 tabs? as per most Airfix stock and please could anyone tell me what colour is the seat material for the different classes. That sounds correct, from distant memory. The roof clips to lugs on the glazing which comes out as two separate pieces once the roof is off. You may find this thread on the Dapol reissue of these coaches of interest: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67996-making-use-of-Dapol-lms-coach-kits/ I also came across the old Comet Models site, which gives a good summary of the types then produced, helpfully along with length and build date. Of course you need to look on the Wizard Models site for current production. You need the Stanier (Period 3) designs for the Airfix coaches as earlier vehicles had different roofs, ends and gangways. The Mainline/Bachmann model would make a good basis for Period I (up to about 1928) conversions (the D1692/99 "two window" style vestibule 3rd would seem to be an obvious candidate as it looks nicely different). http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/modules/viewcategory.php/LMS%20Coach%20Kits%20and%20Sides Edited March 7, 2018 by Flying Pig Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 81C Posted March 7, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2018 Thanks again everyone for the additional information, I have seen some of the Replica coaches on ebay and wondered why the were bidding out at lottery prize money. Thanks Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 7, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) Thanks again everyone for the additional information, I have seen some of the Replica coaches on ebay and wondered why the were bidding out at lottery prize money. Thanks Bob It's worth trying different searches, I've picked up a couple for around £12 last year for donors. Search on the replica cat nos, 12221 for LMS and 12222 for BR liveries respectively, or just browse generic descriptions like LMS coach. Rails usually have some but nowadays seem to put a lot of s/h in bundles at crazy prices, long gone are their 99p starts but if they have something you want on Ebay make an offer rather than pay the BIN price. Edit Rails have about 10 of the BR version (12222) on Ebay for £17.50 + £2 p&p at the moment Edited March 7, 2018 by TheSignalEngineer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 81C Posted March 7, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2018 It would be nice if the late Sir Bill [stanier] could get his name spelt right on the thread title. How much nvolvement he had with the coach designs is another matter. Though the resemblance of these coaches to the Collett GWR steel-panelled coaches of the same period is remarkable..... Dava It would be nice if you called him William I doubt if he was called Bill how common. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 It would be nice if the late Sir Bill [stanier] could get his name spelt right on the thread title. How much nvolvement he had with the coach designs is another matter. Though the resemblance of these coaches to the Collett GWR steel-panelled coaches of the same period is remarkable..... Dava They were updates of Midland Railway designs including using the same dimensions. So it must have been the GWR copying the Midland.... Jason 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 81C Posted March 7, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) They were updates of Midland Railway designs including using the same dimensions. So it must have been the GWR copying the Midland.... Jason Jason I'm really not interested on who done what I like to go happy about my day playing with my train I came on here after some facts which members have kindly gave me the benefit of the knowledge that is all, I suggest you join Diva on a seperate thread picking holes in one and other. Edited March 7, 2018 by 81C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted March 7, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2018 Clive, I know everything there is to know about this subject. More than anyone else in the Country. I am the most informed person you will meet. I can spell Stanier in several languages too. Just drop me a PM and I'll let you have the information you require and also I am happy to fund your collection of Comet Kits that you will require.All the best my friend. Wibble Bottom 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Stineer, Stunier, Stamier, .....Bliddy Miglund spill chicker Yours truly Assambird Kindum Brewnell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 7, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) At least Airfix made / Dapol make their LMS corridor coaches in both 57' and 60' lengths, unlike the exquisite Hornby coaches which are all 57' - so no composites or brake composites, at least of the Period II and III styles. So with the Comet sides there's plenty of scope for ringing the changes, though the steel roofs are only appropriate for Period III coaches. The Airfix / Dapol lavatory non-corridor coaches are Period II designs, with only 25 built to each design - so a much rarer coach in reality than on model railways! However, the fully-panelled Period I versions were a bit more numerous - 145 composites and 248 brake thirds. The challenge for the LMS period modeller is that, with their late 20s build dates, the Period I coaches could well have retained the Midland-style fully lined livery up to and through the war (in common with the majority of wood-bodied stock). With their wood and canvas roofs, these models are good for conversion to other 57' Period I and II coaches. Is there any evidence that Stanier himself was directly involved with coach design? The so called Stanier coaches, or Period III as Essery & Jenkinson termed them, seem to stand in a steady line of evolution from the late Midland and LNWR designs. Edited March 7, 2018 by Compound2632 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Clive, I know everything there is to know about this subject. More than anyone else in the Country. I am the most informed person you will meet. I can spell Stanier in several languages too. Just drop me a PM and I'll let you have the information you require and also I am happy to fund your collection of Comet Kits that you will require.All the best my friend. Wibble Bottom Mr Mallard, Do you have that list of possible comet conversion items that you mentioned on a.n. other thread,and for which I'd asked if you'd be kind to send me a copy? Rgds, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 81C Posted March 7, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2018 Mr Mallard, Do you have that list of possible comet conversion items that you mentioned on a.n. other thread,and for which I'd asked if you'd be kind to send me a copy? Rgds, Drop Phil (Mallard) a PM as per his post for any info'. Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Drop Phil (Mallard) a PM as per his post for any info'. Bob Tried that, but will do it again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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