Class 116 diesel multiple units

[chrisf]

1968 saw the first allocations of 116s to Stratford, Cricklewood and Finsbury Park, while the process of re-liverying continued with very little of it being recorded. Some that were:

 

51128+51141 [LA403] blue with full yellow ends

50847+59352+50900 [LA308] blue with full yellow end

50865+59372+50921 [LA311, misformed] blue with full yellow ends

 

In January 1968 three 116 sets were transferred to Reading in exchange for three 117 sets.  Set LA328, comprising 50848+59356+50901 was observed at Paddington on 3^rd January.  The other two migrants were 50856+59364+50909 [LA320] and 50857+59368+50910 [LA313].  By April all three sets had been returned to Laira without receiving RDG numbers.  Also in April 50083 was reallocated from Bristol to Reading and replaced the fire damaged 51357 in RDG460.

 

On 24^th February 1968 the Rhondda Tunnel was closed abruptly due to its structural condition.  The last train through it was reported as formed by CAT321 but as this set was moved to Laira in January 1965 and later to Tyseley this leaves another mystery to be solved!

 

In April 1968 the first 116 sets was sent to Stratford – 50846+59354+50899, which had been CAT326.  In August two more arrived – 50841+59349+ 50894 [CAT325] and 50858+59367+50881 [CAT341].   Earlier in the year it had been announced that the Valleys services were to be recast from 5^th May and, amid much protest, they were.  To enable conductor-guard working a start was made on the fitting of inter-car suspended gangways as units were shopped.  At the same time the process of downgrading first class accommodation began.  By September the following Cardiff sets were known to have been fitted with gangways: 302, 304, 306, 315, 329, 344, 408, 412 and 414.   It was now necessary for the WR to be careful which sets were transferred away from Cardiff.

 

In June 1968 the first 116 was moved from South Gosforth to Finsbury Park – 50830+59343+50883.  The other three sets followed in July – 50824+59332+50877, 50827+59361+ 50880 and 50828+59336+50906.   There is no guarantee that either these or the Stratford sets retained their formations after transfer.

 

A notable move also took place in April when 51137+59447+51150 and two 122 power cars moved to Leith Central under their own power.

 

The influx of 116 vehicles to Cricklewood resulted from the unsatisfactory performance of the Cravens power twins in use between Kentish Town and Barking.  In July 1968 50849+50902, 50850+50903 and 50870+50923 were surrendered by Laira after a period in store and accompanied by three 122 driving trailers which saw little use after transfer.   In August the influx to Cricklewood came from Tyseley and included 50054, 50060, 50068, 50071, 50101, 50106, 50111, 59008, 59017 and 59021.  A consequence of the influx was the decision to redesignate the St Pancras – Bedford sets [Class 127] with the Red Triangle coupling code, the original bearers having been withdrawn.  Experience had shown that it was not wise to mix cars with hydraulic and mechanical transmission in one formation.  Although the 127s were prohibited from the Metropolitan Widened Lines, there was apparently no such obstacle to the use of the 116s and the necessity of using loco-hauled stock on the peak service to Moorgate was finally removed.  Sets of 116s were assembled from three power cars and one trailer.

 

So what happened in 1969?  The Hamilton sets received set numbers.   What else? Stay tuned …

 

Chris

 

[chrisf]

We have reached 1969.

 

Almost unnoticed, the last 116 left Bristol in March 1969 for Laira.  The set concerned was 50865+59372+50921.  In May the last set at Cardiff without gangways, CTN338 [50852+59360+50905] was transferred to Hamilton.  Set LA313 [50856+59364+50909] was transferred to Canton and took the number 338.  All Valleys sets were now in blue livery, the last in green livery having been 408 which went for overhaul in mid May.  All but three had full yellow ends and at this time only sets 305, 307, 313, 320, 327, 338 and 353 retained first class accommodation.

 

Now that all Cardiff sets had gangways, two years after the decision to thus equip them was taken, the way was clear for the introduction of conductor-guard working.  The August 1969 RO reported that hitherto it had been confined to late evenings but was soon expected to commence more widely as no retiring station staff had been replaced for some time and a number of stations were manned for one shift only.   Any illness or holiday leave left stations unstaffed at unpredictable times and little attempt would be made to check tickets in those circumstances.  Sound familiar?   .   

 

The trailers declassified were listed as 59030, 59031, 59335, 59340, 59344, 59347, 59350, 59353, 59355, 59359, 59362, 59363, 59366, 59369, 59373, 59375, 59445 and 59446.  Sets had been numbered as 3xx [with first class] or 4xx [without] and it would appear that no renumbering took place after declassification.  The WR set numbering system was in a state of flux: for example, it distinguished between those 117s with gangways and those without and some renumbering took place.  A unified system for the WR was some years distant.

 

At this time there were 35 sets to cover 28 regular workings, stabled as follows: Barry Island (2), Cardiff Canton (7 + 2 spare), Cymmer (1), Merthyr (2), Rhymney (8) and Treherbert (8).

 

The WR allocation of Class 116 cars at 6^th September 1969 was: Reading, one DMBS [50083] formed with two cars from a 117 set and four power cars minus seats used for parcels work.  Marsh Junction, nil.  Laira, five 3 car sets.  Canton, 35 3-car sets.

 

In September 1969 the Railair Express Parcels set, in blue with full yellow ends,  was observed at Newton Abbot, having seemingly returned from Scotland.  Trailer 59447 was stored and replaced by two GUVs, 86572 and 86174.

 

Ominously, there was news from the London Midland Region of a region-wide set numbering system.  Suburban triples were to be numbered 500 – 550, with 500 - 542 allocated to Tyseley [TY] and 561 - 565 to Cricklewood [CD].  It must have been fun keeping track of those, as no doubt we shall discover.  The first reported were as follows:

 

TY506: 50058+59006+50112

TY509: 50072+59009+50105

TY512: 50051+59012+50113

TY513: 50077+59013+50120

TY514: 50073+59014+50109

TY519: 50064+59019+50115

TY520: 50061+59020+50117

TY522: 50066+59022+50103

TY523: 50055+59023+50116

TY526: 50070+59026+50095

TY527: 50053+59027+50119

TY534: 50859+59342+50912

TY535: 50860+59438+50913

TY536: 50833+59442+50914

 

Up to TY529 the pattern is obviously that the set takes its number from the trailer but this does not work with TY530 upwards!  Nothing lasts for ever and in November 1969 the transfer to Cricklewood of 50063, 50074, 50102, 50114, 59011 and 59020 took place.   

 

In November 1969 the set numbers of sets based at Hamilton were finally reported:

 

143      50818 59326 50871

144      50820 59328 50873

145      50821 59329 50874

146      50822 59330 50875

147      50823 59331 50876

148      50825 59333 50878

149      50826 59345 50879

150      50829 59337 50882

150A   50852 59360 50905

 

So that’s it for 1969, unless you know better.   Coming soon: 1970

 

Chris

 

[chrisf]

1970 was a quiet year for Class 116.  In January 50073 and 50100 were transferred from Tyseley to Cricklewood and 59014 was stored.  A partial renumbering of sets took place at Laira.   This appears to have taken place more frequently than has been reported.

 

LA308, was 306: 51128+59357+51141

LA309, was 307: 50868+59365+50918

LA310, was 308: 50847+59352+50900

LA311, was 309: 50854+59356+50907

LA312, was 311: 50865+59372+50921

 

Following the withdrawal of the Bridgend - Cymmer Afan schools service CTN414 was disbanded.  50090 and 50132 were appropriated as extra power cars for the Cardiff - Crewe services as it had been found that the Swindon Cross-Country sets [Class 120] had difficulty in keeping time.  The set’s trailer, 59040, was transferred to Bristol and marshalled in Cross-Country set BL503.

 

Back in the Valleys it was reported on the RO that conductor guard working finally commenced on 2^nd February 1970 having been postponed for a month through lack of ticket machines.  The arrangements, said the RO, “seem to be functioning with less chaos than was generally expected, though anyone wishing to travel without a ticket would probably find little trouble in doing so on some journeys”.

 

For probably the first time a full list of Tyseley formations was published, said to be correct to 16^th August 1970.  It is probably no surprise that some temporary reformations were subsequently observed: Tyseley had quite a history.  All the following set numbers are prefixed TY and the vehicle numbers M:

 

500      50061+59000+50092

501      50057+59001+50097

502      50051+59002+50107

503      50076+59003+50118

504      50059+59004+50104

505      50065+59005+50094

506      50058+59006+50112

507      50069+59007+50099

509      50072+59009+50105

510      50067+59010+50093

512      50051+59012+50113

513      50077+59013+50120

515      50050+59015+51143

516      50074+59016+50110

518      50056+59018+50098

519      50064+59019+50115

522      50066+59022+50103

523      50055+59023+50116

524      50078+59024+50109

526      50070+59026+50095

527      50053+59027+50119

528      50062+59028+50117

529      50085+59338+50127

530      50831+59339+50884

531      50861+59341+50886

532      50079+59351+50121

533      51129+59439+51141

534      50859+59342+50912

535      50860+59438+50913

536      50833+59442+50914

537      51130+59340+50108

538      51131+59341+51144

539      51133+59443+51146

540      50832+59029+50885

541      50835+59334+50888

542      50837+59358+50890

 

Chris

[The Johnster]

Re 50090 and 50132 used on Cardiff-Crewe services as extra power in conjunction with 120s, they were intended to improve timekeeping by improving the power/weight ratio of the 120s, which were struggling on this hilly route.  They were locked out of use so that passengers could not access them, and IIRC were always marshalled at the Crewe end of the train.  As traincrews had carriage keys, they became the de facto traincrew accommodation on these trains, and various combinations of seating removed to form card tables, or beds, were in use!  Bubble cars were also used for this purpose, though timekeeping was still poor on the route and continued to be so until loco and coaches replaced the 120s, and even then it was not until the introduction of 33s and later 37s on the route that the traction was really on top of the job!

Edited July 21, 2018 by The Johnster

[br2975]

When W50090 and W50132 were split to form 'booster' cars for the North & West they were initially referred to as "Set 101" & " Set 104" .

.

They 'disappeared' locally during summer 1971, reappearing in about December, I had W50090 on the 05:35 Cardiff-Crewe on 28th December 1971.

.

Now, the confusing bit.

.

The Bristol & S.Wales DMU diagrams for 1971-1972 show a Canton , "two car suburban unit" working MO to Swansea where it spent the rest of the week shuttling twixt Swansea and Carmarthen, returning to Canton for any maintenance.

.

Canton only had one twin-set, 50090 & 50132, hence the use of Pressed Steel bubble cars on the North & West.

.

I'll have to turn out my notebooks for any further info.

Edited July 21, 2018 by br2975

[br2975]

Apologies to Chris F. for starying a little off topic, but one cannot stay with W50090 & W50132, and their use as 'boosters' on the North & West services, without giving a slightly wider view,

.

Therefore,  I've attached below extracts from my notebooks of some Cardiff - Crewe (North & West Route) sightings during 1971-1972.

.

Unfortunately, my 1970 notes are long lost.

.

The relevant DMU diagrams for the time show the 'booster' car, be it Cl.116 or Cl.121 as leading from Cardiff, which was usual, but not sacrosanct.

.

The diagrams also required a 'three car cross country unit with buffet' (Cl.120 Swindon unit) albeit, I cannot recall one of the buffets ever being staffed.

.

There are a few anomalies in the sightings below

e.g.

(i) a cross country unit sandwiched between two boosters, 1x Cl.11 and 1x Cl.121

(ii) A Cl.119 Gloucester RC&W 'cross country' unit, rare on North & West services.

(iii) A Central Wales twin unit, probably working home to Canton.

(iv) an occasion where a 'bubble car' arrives from Crewe attached to one Cross Country set, and returns north later, attached to a different set.

 

50090 50683 59294 50735    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23/10/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
50090 50693 59299 50738    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 07/11/1971 Canton
50090 50732 59298 50674    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20/11/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
50090 50693 59299 50738    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23/12/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
50090 50729 59266 50660    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28/12/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
50132 50648 59296 50706    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20/03/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
50132 50693 59299 50738    .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .05/04/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
50132 50683 59294 50735    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13/04/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
50132 50683 59294 50735 50729 59266 50660 . . . . . . . . . 07/11/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
50132 50705 59265 50647    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..20/11/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
55022 50723 59278 50674    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..08/05/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
55022 50729 59266 50660    ................................................24/06/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
55022 50727 59291 50679    ................................................30/06/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
55022 50705 59265 50647    ................................................14/11/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
55023 50679 59291 50723    ................................................12/04/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
55023 50705 59265 50647    ................................................08/05/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
55023 50727 59291 50679 50729 59266 50660 ..................31/07/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
55023 50705 59265 50647 50673 50724  ............................28/11/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
55023 50695 59299 50738 50706 59296 50648 ..................23/12/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
50660 59266 50729 55024 50674 59278 50723 ..................13/04/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
55024 50693 59299 50738    ................................................08/05/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
55025 50693 59299 50738 50647 59265 50705 ..................24/04/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
55025 50705 59265 50647 50132   ......................................01/05/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
55025 50674 59278 50723    ................................................24/06/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
55025 50693 59299 50738    ................................................11/07/1971 Canton
50647 59265 50706 55025 50660 59266 50729 ..................21/08/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
55026 50660 59266 50729    ................................................05/04/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
55026 50693 59299 50738    ................................................16/04/1971 Crewe - Cardiff
55026 50648 59296 50706    ................................................16/04/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
55026 50729 59266 50660    ................................................01/05/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
55026 50738 59299 50693    ................................................07/07/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
55026 50729 59266 50660 50659 59282 50700 ..................07/08/1971 Cardiff - Crewe
55026 51075 59434 51103 50682 59288 50726 ..................24/12/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

[The Johnster]

The Buffets were staffed on some services, Brian; I used to work a Sunday afternoon one as far as Hereford as part of my link working which always had the Buffet open.  The reverse working didn't IIRC.  Tea/coffee, bottled ale and pop, chocolates and packets of biscuits; I don't remember anything as involved as sandwiches and there was no hot food.  A public timetable for the period should show which services had catering, but I would not rely on it as gospel, as this was the sort of service in the front line for ad hoc counter closures due to staffing problems.  

 

Our on train catering staff in the 70s was almost entirely made up of men who had previously been employed as stewards on the big ocean liners; Cunard, P & O, Union Castle and so on.  They were a friendly bunch, and always good for a yarn, but I have never encountered a more naturally and consistently crooked bunch of people in my life, and I doubt that even you have all that often...  They were 'at it' to a man, selling their own stuff, cooking the books, all sorts; no wonder the service lost money.!  My great uncle Ted, previously mentioned on the forum, was a previous incarnation of them, having learned his trade in the army at Aldershot (the only shot he ever heard) in the Great War and working for the GW on the Barry-North Shields 'Ports to Ports' double home.  He was what we called a character, dodgy as f***, and it was good to see tradition being kept up!

 

We are drifting OT again, sorry Chris!

[The Johnster]

Apologies to Chris F. for starying a little off topic, but one cannot stay with W50090 & W50132, and their use as 'boosters' on the North & West services, without giving a slightly wider view,

.

Therefore,  I've attached below extracts from my notebooks of some Cardiff - Crewe (North & West Route) sightings during 1971-1972.

.

Unfortunately, my 1970 notes are long lost.

.

The relevant DMU diagrams for the time show the 'booster' car, be it Cl.116 or Cl.121 as leading from Cardiff, which was usual, but not sacrosanct.

.

The diagrams also required a 'three car cross country unit with buffet' (Cl.120 Swindon unit) albeit, I cannot recall one of the buffets ever being staffed.

.

There are a few anomalies in the sightings below

e.g.

(i) a cross country unit sandwiched between two boosters, 1x Cl.11 and 1x Cl.121

(ii) A Cl.119 Gloucester RC&W 'cross country' unit, rare on North & West services.

(iii) A Central Wales twin unit, probably working home to Canton.

(iv) an occasion where a 'bubble car' arrives from Crewe attached to one Cross Country set, and returns north later, attached to a different set.

 

50090 50683 59294 50735    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23/10/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

50090 50693 59299 50738    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 07/11/1971 Canton

50090 50732 59298 50674    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20/11/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

50090 50693 59299 50738    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23/12/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

50090 50729 59266 50660    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28/12/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

50132 50648 59296 50706    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20/03/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

50132 50693 59299 50738    .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .05/04/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

50132 50683 59294 50735    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13/04/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

50132 50683 59294 50735 50729 59266 50660 . . . . . . . . . 07/11/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

50132 50705 59265 50647    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..20/11/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

55022 50723 59278 50674    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..08/05/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

55022 50729 59266 50660    ................................................24/06/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

55022 50727 59291 50679    ................................................30/06/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

55022 50705 59265 50647    ................................................14/11/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

55023 50679 59291 50723    ................................................12/04/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

55023 50705 59265 50647    ................................................08/05/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

55023 50727 59291 50679 50729 59266 50660 ..................31/07/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

55023 50705 59265 50647 50673 50724  ............................28/11/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

55023 50695 59299 50738 50706 59296 50648 ..................23/12/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

50660 59266 50729 55024 50674 59278 50723 ..................13/04/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

55024 50693 59299 50738    ................................................08/05/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

55025 50693 59299 50738 50647 59265 50705 ..................24/04/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

55025 50705 59265 50647 50132   ......................................01/05/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

55025 50674 59278 50723    ................................................24/06/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

55025 50693 59299 50738    ................................................11/07/1971 Canton

50647 59265 50706 55025 50660 59266 50729 ..................21/08/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

55026 50660 59266 50729    ................................................05/04/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

55026 50693 59299 50738    ................................................16/04/1971 Crewe - Cardiff

55026 50648 59296 50706    ................................................16/04/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

55026 50729 59266 50660    ................................................01/05/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

55026 50738 59299 50693    ................................................07/07/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

55026 50729 59266 50660 50659 59282 50700 ..................07/08/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

55026 51075 59434 51103 50682 59288 50726 ..................24/12/1971 Cardiff - Crewe

This shows that a strengthener, with the passengers locked out, could occasionally be marshalled in between two 120s; I have been trying to remember if I ever saw this, and must have, but was not sure.  I may well have travelled on the return working of some of these observations; work to Hereford and home on the cushions was a regular occurrence, and may have even been guard on any Sunday pm train mentioned here.  

[br2975]

I've scoured my notebooks for sightings of Canton based Cl.116 units during the 1971-1972 period.

.

Other Western region sets seen during the period, the formation of which may impact upon this thread are also included.

 

The results are laid out below, in "Set number" order, followed by the formation of cars and then the earliest date I recorded the set during the 1971-1972 period, albeit some sets escaped my sight until 1973 .

.

Asterisks indicate a change in set formation, or "Set number"

.

C300 51135+59445+51148 – 12/07/71
C301 51136+59446+51149 – 23/10/71
C302 50855+59368+50908 -  05/04/71
C302 50855+59363+50908 – 24/04/73 **
C303 50080+59030+50122 – 01/05/71
C304 51134+59444+51147 – 16/10/71
C304 51140+59032+51153 – xx/11/71 & 24/04/73
C304 50082+59340+50124 - 03/02/72 **
C305 50857+59368+50910 – 16/10/71
C306 50081+59031+50123 – 05/04/71
C307 51134+59444+51147 – 16/04/73
C308 50086+59036+50128 – 03/02/72
C309 50869+59035+50922 – 01/05/71
C310 50091+59041+50133 – 04/07/71
C311 51132+59034+51145 – 04/07/71
C312 51139+59033+51152 – 04/07/71
C313 50863+59371+50916 – 01/05/71
C314 50088+59362+50130 – 01/05/71
C315 50845+59353+50898 – 01/05/71
C316 50867+59375+50920 – 04/07/71
C317 50087+59037+50129 – 31/05/71
C318 50089+59039+50131 – 12/07/71
C319 50839+59347+50892 – 01/05/71
C320 50848+59356+50901 – 14/05/71
C321 50834+59038+50887 – 01/05/71
C323 50843+59355+50896 – 12/07/71
C327 50866+59374+50919 – 01/05/71
C328 50842+59350+50895 – 11/07/71
C329 50844+59335+50897 – 01/05/71
C330 51128+59357+51141 – 20/07/76
C331 50851+59359+50904 – 04/07/71
C337 50836+59344+50889 – 01/05/71
C338 50856+59364+50909 – 04/07/71
L440 50084+59373+50126 – 21/06/71
C344 50082+59340+50124 – 05/04/71
L345 50862+50872 – - - - - - - 29/08/72
C346 50858+59366+50911 – 23/10/71
C347 50084+59373+50126 – 16/04/73
C351 50864+59369+50917 – 03/02/72
C353 51138+59448+51151 – 29/08/71
C354 50847+59357+50900 – 21/04/73
P357 50868+59365+50918 – 29/06/73

.

.........51137+86174+ 86572+51150 - 22/02/71 'Railair Express Parcels' set, Bristol, Marsh Jct.

Edited July 24, 2018 by br2975

[chrisf]

Brian's log above is invaluable!  We will revisit it when the time comes, after my well-earned holiday, to deal with 1972.  In that year the WR instituted a revised set numbering system covering the whole region and identifying different classes by the first digit of the set number.  It will come as no surprise that the 116s were numbered 3xx under this scheme as most of them had already been given 3xx numbers when introduced in 1957-58.  Let us, though, not get ahead of ourselves.

 

For 1971 there is little to report but snippets.  In April 50090+50132 were noted paired and in use on the Pembroke Dock branch, apparently taking time off from their strengthening duties on the Cardiff - Crewe service.  118 power cars 51313 and 51328 were drafted in to take their place.  Also on the move was trailer 59040, seemingly still marshalled in the Cross-Country set in which it had lately worked at Bristol.

 

No sooner do we publish a list of Tyseley formations than there are changes.  The game of musical power cars produced the following in October:

 

502      50861+59002+50912

527      50859+59027+50119

531      50052+59341+50886

534      50053+59342+50914

536      50833+59442+50107

 

I propose to deal with 1972 after my return from holiday the week after next.  We are nowhere near the end of the story ...

 

Chris

[Phil Bullock]

Have a good break Chris - looking forwards to your return!

 

Phil

[br2975]

Brian's log above is invaluable!  We will revisit it when the time comes, after my well-earned holiday, ........................

 

I propose to deal with 1972 after my return from holiday the week after next.  We are nowhere near the end of the story ...

 

 

Enjoy your break Chris.

.

Brian R

[Pteremy]

Sorry, out of sequence, but example of blue/white livery 26/8/68 (arriving at Minehead)

 

http://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/photos/gallery/class116

[royaloak]

Sorry, out of sequence, but example of blue/white livery 26/8/68 (arriving at Minehead)

 

http://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/photos/gallery/class116

Thats a 119, you can tell by the huge brake area, the middle coach was a former buffet plus the overall lack of doors to each seating bay.

[The Johnster]

Yes, an entirely different and more 'main line' concept, though mechanically identical.  This is the Gloucester RC&W version of the Swindon cross country, class 120, for main line work, though the 'Derby' cab is used, not a 116 which is a high density suburban dmu, with no toilet facilities and, in it's original form, no gangways, and an open saloon interior layout based on concurrent emu practice, itself derived from compartment stock. 

 

116 had a door to each seating bay and no sliding ventilators in the windows, as did 117 but these incorporated lavatories in the trailer, centrally positioned.

Edited August 1, 2018 by The Johnster

[Pteremy]

Sorry folks - mea culpa - should have know better than trust a caption/description. But, assuming that the date is correct, is still illustrative of the livery applied by summer 1968 (which was the point).

[brushman47544]

Sorry folks - mea culpa - should have know better than trust a caption/description. But, assuming that the date is correct, is still illustrative of the livery applied by summer 1968 (which was the point).

The 119s (and 120s for that matter) being denominated cross country units received blue/grey livery, whereas the 116s as suburban type units went through plain blue and in some cases the “refurbished” livery of white with blue stripe, before receiving blue/grey in the 80s.

[Pteremy]

Ah! Then I think I have misunderstood the reference to 'blue and grey' in post #330. Thanks for the clarification.

[The Johnster]

To complicate the issue, some Cross Country dmus received plain rail blue liveries early on (1966) with sye and white roof end domes.  These were Swindons, 120s, I cannot recall any Gloucester sets being so treated.  A very few sets would have been involved and blue/grey appeared as soon as full yellow ends came into use.  

 

IIRC, blue/grey for dmus was initially restricted to the WR Cross Countries, 119 and 120, the Swindon Inter Cities, 123, and the Trans Pennines; I would not care to make an objective statement about the Scottish Inter Cities as I do not know enough about them.  The livery was for main line stock, and the suburban multi-door types and low density branch types were not classed as such, though of course many of them did main line work!  Everything else, Metrocamms, Birminghams, Cravens, etc were plain blue; it suited them IMHO.

[Phil Bullock]

http://www.miac.org.uk/images/120xxx.jpg

 

For those watching in black and white, the all over blue unit is the one with the white cab roofs and small yellow panel....

 

Phil 

[dibber25]

To complicate the issue, some Cross Country dmus received plain rail blue liveries early on (1966) with sye and white roof end domes.  These were Swindons, 120s, I cannot recall any Gloucester sets being so treated.  A very few sets would have been involved and blue/grey appeared as soon as full yellow ends came into use.  

 

IIRC, blue/grey for dmus was initially restricted to the WR Cross Countries, 119 and 120, the Swindon Inter Cities, 123, and the Trans Pennines; I would not care to make an objective statement about the Scottish Inter Cities as I do not know enough about them.  The livery was for main line stock, and the suburban multi-door types and low density branch types were not classed as such, though of course many of them did main line work!  Everything else, Metrocamms, Birminghams, Cravens, etc were plain blue; it suited them IMHO.

 

I've been trying to find the picture I took of an all-over blue 119 at Birkenhead but when you want proof, it's always illusive! (CJL)

[EddieK]

Sorry, out of sequence, but example of blue/white livery 26/8/68 (arriving at Minehead)

 

http://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/photos/gallery/class116

The livery is Blue and Grey. The only white apart from the lettering was the thin white border to the grey area.

[EddieK]

To complicate the issue, some Cross Country dmus received plain rail blue liveries early on (1966) with sye and white roof end domes.  These were Swindons, 120s, I cannot recall any Gloucester sets being so treated.  A very few sets would have been involved and blue/grey appeared as soon as full yellow ends came into use.  

 

IIRC, blue/grey for dmus was initially restricted to the WR Cross Countries, 119 and 120, the Swindon Inter Cities, 123, and the Trans Pennines; I would not care to make an objective statement about the Scottish Inter Cities as I do not know enough about them.  The livery was for main line stock, and the suburban multi-door types and low density branch types were not classed as such, though of course many of them did main line work!  Everything else, Metrocamms, Birminghams, Cravens, etc were plain blue; it suited them IMHO.

 

To confuse matters, here is a Blue/Grey 101

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/45603744@N06/31520607880/

 

This is one of 5 sets to gain this livery on the WR. At this time, every other DMU not mentioned above was plain blue, although the prototype refurbished Met Camm emerged in its white livery in Summer 1974.

 

My suspicion about the WR sets (800 - 804) is that until their arrival the WR had two main types of DMU - Cross Country and Inter City sets for longer distance, more luxurious services (Classes 119, 120, 123) and suburban units for branch lines and local commuter services, (Classes 116, 117, 118, 121, 122). When the five Class 101s arrived, they fitted neither category, but must have been considered to be closer to Cross Country sets and so gained the more prestigious livery, even though every other 101 set was just a "bread and butter" set in plain blue.

 

As an aside, the five WR Met Camm sets were eventually refurbished and gained the "blue stripe" livery before reverting to Blue/Grey when this livery was applied to DMUs more widely from 1979 onwards.

 

Sorry to divert this thread, but with Chris F on holiday, anarchy has taken over....

[The Johnster]

One has to consider that the WR's definition of a main line set was one with sliding ventilators in the windows; ventilation would not have been available on such stock with the saloon doors close, which they did on springs, from open droplights otherwise.  Rules are proved by exceptions, of course, and you are quite correct IMHO in your assertion that the WR did not really know what to do with the first low density branch line 57' bodied dmus it got hold of...

 

In the event, the 101s proved well up to any work the WR threw at them, (though you might argue that the Cross Country sets were a bit more comfortable and better appointed), and had a bit more go in them than the 119s and 120s, which were very weak by the mid 70s.  I remember working a Cardiff-Bristol 120 in about 1975 which failed to make over 50mph at any part of the journey except the drop into the Severn Tunnel, and was down to second gear climbing out the other side; all engines were working.  A moderate headwind could upset timing on some sets, which to be fair had been originally designed for a 15 year life which they had already come to the end of.

Edited August 3, 2018 by The Johnster

[br2975]

In Chris' absence, I offer up the following;

 

Set CTN414 had been formed 50090+59040+50132 and was (in theory) used daily on the Bridgend - Cymmer Afan service.

.

Also in use were the following bubble cars, CTN101 W55025 and CTN102 W55026.

.

The 'bubble cars' were removed from the Bridgend - Cymmer Afan service, and as mentioned previously, used as additional power cars on the Cardiff - Crewe "North & West" services, where the Cl.120 Swindon Cross Country units were failing to keep time.

.

The 'bubble cars' were replaced by two former Chester Park Royal twin-sets M50413+M56168 and M50414+M56169, which were split on arrival at Canton, the trailers stored and M50413+M50414 combined to form set CTN100.

.

Leading up to the withdrawal of passenger services on the Bridgend - Cymmer Afan section (  as mentioned by Chris, still advertised as Bridgend - Treherbert ) most services were operated by (supposedly) CTN414 which allegedly ran ECS from Canton - Bridgend each morning in order start the day on the 0705 ex Bridgend. I suspect the set ran as part of 4F04 the 06:30 Cardiff - Swansea parcels, which operated as a DMU set and spent 5mins at Bridgend (06:53-06:58).

.

Early afternoon, the Park Royal set ran ECS from Canton, formed the 15:08 and 17:08 Bridgend - Cymmer trips, returning ECS from Bridgend (around 19:15hrs) to Canton.

.

When the 1970 school summer term ended, the local authority schools contract ended also, and brought about the end of the Bridgend - Cymmer Afan passenger workings.

.

The Park Royal sets were reformed and  packed off to Reading.

.

Unit CTN 414 was, in theory, also disbanded, power cars W50090 & W50132 finding use as both a twin unit, with occasional appearances in West Wales, and also as seperate 'additional power boosters' on the North & West Route, standing in for Cl.121 'bubble cars' .

 

The trailer W59040 transferred to Bristol, where it was sandwiched between two Cl.120, Swindon Cross Country power cars to form set BL503, which unit was, ostensibly, a weekday depot spare, being diagrammed as  'set No.27'.

 

The unit was easily spotted by its blue and grey liveried power cars, and all blue trailer.

.

On 2nd. October, 1971, together with hundreds of other railway enthusiasts I was at Severn Tunnel Junction to see the breaking of the "1968 Ban" by 6000 KGV.

.

My memories of KGV that day have faded with time, but my recollection of D1000 'Western Enterprise' bouncing as it climbed out of 'the hole' are still distinct, as is the sight of the Marsh Junction spare set, by then formed W50665+W59040+W50715 on a Bristol - Cardiff - Bristol diagram for the day.

.

Brian R

Edited August 6, 2018 by br2975