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Templot default file locations





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#1 Chuntybunt

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 16:36

Is there any way to set the default location for saving and opening files in Templot? It's really annoying having to navigate from C/Program Files/Templot/etc etc etc to where I actually store my files even if I have already stored a file there.





#2 martin_wynne

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 17:19

Is there any way to set the default location for saving and opening files in Templot? It's really annoying having to navigate from C/Program Files/Templot/etc etc etc to where I actually store my files even if I have already stored a file there.

 

Hi,

 

After saving the first one, Templot will remember for the rest of the session.

 

But where do you want to save your files? The best solution is to install Templot in the same place. It is not logical to have a program in a different place from its data. You keep recipe books in the kitchen, not the bedroom or the garage. smile.gif

 

Just re-run the Templot installer, and put it in the same folder as your files (providing there are no spaces in the folder name or the entire path to it).

 

p.s. you should not install Templot in the Windows \Program Files\ folders. Please read the notes on the installer.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.


Edited by martin_wynne, 17 March 2018 - 17:34 .
p.s. added


#3 Vistisen

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 18:17

I'm sorry Martin but you are almost alone in thinking combining data and code in the same directory is a good idea. And to prove it I'll use your own analogy. Recipe books (code) tell you how to use milk, eggs, butter and flour (DATA) to make cakes. You might keep them all in the kitchen ( The same computer) But I've never seen anyone who keeps the recipe books in the fridge or in the flour bin. (the same directory) . I can give you three quick reasons for NOT mixing data and code. Security, Backup on remote locations or devices, and software upgrades overwriting files.

 

It might will be that Template is small enough to not fill to much in backups, and that the chances of it being hacked by criminals are slight, but the principles and best practices are there for a reason! As a sys admin you should be able to define a folder area that contains all data that need to backed up and the rest of the machine contains nothing that can not be reinstalled.  As you might have guessed by this - (slightly) aggressive post :angel: . I'm a victim of your 'unusual' approach to data management. When reinstalling my computer after a hardware change, I restored my offsite backup of data and found that I had lost a lot of templot work, because I forgot that, uniquely amount the 30+ programmes on my PC, templot saves data outside of the windows profile. In fact on modern hardened windows server products such as server 2012 or 2016 ( not that I would run templot on a server), You are simply not allowed to save files outside of the profiles on a C drive.


Edited by Vistiaen, 17 March 2018 - 18:19 .

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#4 Pete the Elaner

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 18:37

I am with you on that, Vistiaen.

 

Working files are best kept separate from program files, ideally in a network location like on a server, NAS on in the cloud where they can easily be backed up. There could be hours, days or even weeks worth of work there. You don't want these wiped out by a hard drive failure. If they are all in the same location, it is easy to back them up.

You don't want to be backing up your operating system (Windows linux, Mac etc) or program files because restoring them is difficult, but re-installing them is relatively easy. It is therefore desirable to keep program files & user data separate.

 

Windows has write-protected everywhere except the user profile since Windows 2000. From an administrator's point of view, this is quite nice because it stops the user from deleting an important system or program file, or changing anything for another user.

 

It can also be nice to store all files relating to a particular layout in 1 place. Photos you have taken for research of a particular location, drawings/diagrams (including Templot), wiring details, photos of the layout itself & I am sure there are other things I may have missed. You could then change Templot's default store when you started work on a new project.

 

Recipe books are not the same as user data. If these got destroyed in a fire along with your food, you could buy the books again, or download & print them off again.


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#5 martin_wynne

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 18:58

I'm sorry Martin but you are almost alone in thinking combining data and code in the same directory is a good idea.

 

Being in a minority of 1 is the story of my life. However I am not entirely alone -- looking in my C:\ folder I see several other programs which have installed themselves there. (Generally it seems the ones which always work and always have worked for years without any problems under different versions of Windows, some going back to Windows95.)

 

The Templot program code is so small in comparison to its data files and folders, that not to keep them all in the same place strikes me as perverse. So what if it gets backed up? So what if it gets lost or corrupted? It is easy to download again at any time.

 

It doesn't actually need to be "installed" as such. Just run the single .exe file. In fact some users install it on a USB stick along with their data files, so that they can run it on any computer that's handy. You can't do that if it has to be installed in some other location.

 

If you can't backup the default location, simply install Templot where it can be backed up.

 

But I'm not going to get into a prolonged debate on this. Templot is the way it is because that is the way I like it for my own use. No-one is under any obligation to use it if they don't want to.

 

Windows has write-protected everywhere except the user profile since Windows 2000

 

My computer belongs to me, not Microsoft. I'm the one who decides what gets write-protected and what doesn't.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.


Edited by martin_wynne, 17 March 2018 - 19:08 .


#6 Pete the Elaner

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 19:22

 

I'm the one who decides what gets write-protected and what doesn't.

Not necessarily. Someone could write a virus which uses your write access to screw Windows up & there are probably loads out there which do just this.. If the account you are logged on with can only write to the user profile, then this limits the damage that the virus can do.

For this reason, it is bad practise to use Windows normally while logged on with admin rights (although I admit I do it). A lot of companies give users admin rights to their own PCs to make life "easier", but I dread to think how much extra work this creates for the IT department.

 

Having never used it, I did not realise Templot was just an .exe so why place it in a folder on your C drive? Why not just run it from the network where all the files are? If it is a small file,

It is certainly not perverse to keep program & data files separate though.



#7 RichardS

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 19:26

Being in a minority of 1 is the story of my life. However I am not entirely alone -- looking in my C:\ folder I see several other programs which have installed themselves there. (Generally it seems the ones which always work and always have worked for years without any problems under different versions of Windows, some going back to Windows95.)

 

The Templot program code is so small in comparison to its data files and folders, that not to keep them all in the same place strikes me as perverse. So what if it gets backed up? So what if it gets lost or corrupted? It is easy to download again at any time.

 

It doesn't actually need to be "installed" as such. Just run the single .exe file. In fact some users install it on a USB stick along with their data files, so that they can run it on any computer that's handy. You can't do that if it has to be installed in some other location.

 

If you can't backup the default location, simply install Templot where it can be backed up.

 

But I'm not going to get into a prolonged debate on this. Templot is the way it is because that is the way I like it for my own use. No-one is under any obligation to use it if they don't want to.

 

 

My computer belongs to me, not Microsoft. I'm the one who decides what gets write-protected and what doesn't.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

 

I've installed Templot on my Data drive as opposed to C:/. It works fine. There's a world of difference between running a simple home PC to a network installation. Put it into a free cloud drive and it all gets backed up automatically. Simple.


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#8 martin_wynne

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 19:44

I've installed Templot on my Data drive as opposed to C:/. It works fine. There's a world of difference between running a simple home PC to a network installation. Put it into a free cloud drive and it all gets backed up automatically. Simple.

 

Thanks Richard. It amuses me that it's the IT professionals who get in a muddle with Templot. Home users with a laptop in their workshop, where Templot belongs, manage just fine. Here's the installer:

 

installer_options.png

 

cheers,

 

Martin.



#9 Vistisen

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 20:49

Thanks Richard. It amuses me that it's the IT professionals who get in a muddle with Templot. Home users with a laptop in their workshop, where Templot belongs, manage just fine. Here's the installer:

 

attachicon.gifinstaller_options.png

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

 

Now Martin you are just being provocative. We professionals are telling you, what is accepted as the right way of doings things. I respect your knowledge in railways and trackwork, and your frankly amazing program, But being an expert in your area of expertise does not mean that your know more than us in our areas of knowledge. I know that you can install it anywhere, That is not the point. Trying doing what you suggest in your dialog box on a computer O/S that is actually secure against all the sorts of attacks that are 'out there', and you'll never be able to save a design. This is the last post from me on this subject because frankly you are beyond help :no:

 

PS I still love Templot and have just this day run a locomotive and some very fussy 6 wheel Dapol milk tankers through my first hand built point and they ran perfectly, which is more than can be said for the tillig points I used previously.


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#10 martin_wynne

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 21:11

But being an expert in your area of expertise does not mean that your know more than us in our areas of knowledge.

 

I wouldn't dream of claiming to know more than you in your area of knowledge. However, I do know more than you about how I want my own program to work on my own computer. smile.gif

 

 

Trying doing what you suggest in your dialog box on a computer O/S that is actually secure against all the sorts of attacks that are 'out there', and you'll never be able to save a design.

 

I draw your attention to para 4. at: http://templot.com/c...erms_of_use.php

 

If you are not able to change the settings to whatever you want, you are not permitted to install Templot on the computer.

 

I'm glad you found Templot useful.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.


Edited by martin_wynne, 17 March 2018 - 21:25 .


#11 trustytrev

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 22:33

Hello,

       I think it should be pointed out that not ever one uses Templot on a Windows personal computer. Like Martin,I like to decide how I use my machines rather than being dictated to by Microsoft or anyone else. They are after all my machines. Windows is only one operating system. Can you imagine Ford getting away with cars that only run on fuel provided by themselves?

trustytrev.:)


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#12 AndyID

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 00:22

Now Martin you are just being provocative. We professionals are telling you, what is accepted as the right way of doings things.

 

Ha!

 

This professional decided that MS was heading for the buffers at full-speed a long time ago.

 

I did respect MS for quite a while but then they turned into a cash-register. Clearly MS has "lost the plot". MS is now in survival mode, just like those corporations who went before.



#13 Pete the Elaner

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 01:43

Ha!

 

This professional decided that MS was heading for the buffers at full-speed a long time ago.

 

I did respect MS for quite a while but then they turned into a cash-register. Clearly MS has "lost the plot". MS is now in survival mode, just like those corporations who went before.

Hmm,

 

I used to deal with MS products but now deal with Cisco.

Of the 2, Cisco are far more arrogant & inflexible, baiting customers to upgrade for no reasons other than their own profit. I was cheated from one of their exams (because it contained content off their official study guides). A colleague of mine failed an exam because he answered the question correctly instead of giving an incorrect answer which was in their study material (he researched it on the system he was being test on). They also have a history of failing overpriced CCIE exams because it costs a fortune to study for them & the candidate would much rather pay for an extra overpriced exam than waste the study.

Apple are also pretty rotten when it comes to their own products. I have never like the idea of installing iTunes to use a iPhone when Android will work nicely with any media player.

 

MS exams have seemed far more fair. Their products have some down a lot in price too. (Office Professional used to cost about £500 then needed upgrading every 3 years to avoid a complete re-purchase, but now the suite costs £70 pa for up to 5 machines.

 

Anyway, this is a detraction. Martin's view is that he wrote the program for his own needs. He provides it for free so why should he follow someone else's rules? If he charged for it, then that would be a different matter.

 

Back to the layout..