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Beginners - kit building Brass kits


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Hi, I want to show how I make basic brass kits so that young people and perhaps older modellers who have a fear of a soldering iron might take up the challenge.  Its easier than you think.

 

So I will show my extensive work bench, and some of my favourite tools, and how to build some of the kits I make.

 

I hate glue,   well not really, but you cant un-glue a model, but you CAN unsolder one

 

Image

2 shows what it looks like at the end of part 2

 

1 My fav. tools, a dremel is the best.... A vacuum vice from aldi,  A slab of Aluminium 

If you can find a slab of aluminium, great. Solder does not stick to it, and it does not get how.  - IF you cant, then use wood, or a lump of steel.

If thats a problem, then a mirror is a really good way of getting something flat.

 

6 - THE workbench - honest

THIS IS my workbech

By the day I write software

Some evenings I solder, paint and everything else.

 

7  Soldering Irons, I recommend for white metal a temperature controlled iron if you can,   Its hard to solder white metal to white metal (they are both solder)   (the iron if hot melts EVERYTHING)

The small iron is 25W for small stuff, the next is 60W and can heat up a lot of metal and the top one is a gas flame thrower that really knows how to get something hot, very useful on this kit when it went wrong.

 

4 & 5 Wood - you can find some old furniture some threw out. You can see here its great for drilling parts, and Img 4 has a right angle. Great for things not slipping away.

 

The kit. (img 3)

A Jidenco Fish Wagon

This is the kit I will be making with detailed images, and notes.

 

One trick I learned is to use your phone to take lots of close up photos, then look at them on the pc.

It really shows up problems you dont pick with your eye.

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Edited by bundeena2230
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I wouldn't recommend soldering on wood . It absorbs Flux and gives of nasty fumes . I use a Jewellers soldering board about £6 via eBay.

 

 

There is a thread on here relating soldering a simple etched LNER/LMS van.

 

Jidenco !! not a easy kit !!

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I wouldn't recommend soldering on wood . It absorbs Flux and gives of nasty fumes . I use a Jewellers soldering board about £6 via eBay.

 

 

There is a thread on here relating soldering a simple etched LNER/LMS van.

 

Jidenco !! not a easy kit !!

I am not saying its good, but if kids are trying to get started, its an option rather than moms kitchen table.

And I take your point - people dont breath in the smoke that comes off your soldering iron.  Its not good.

If you dont have a small fan, then slowly breath out as you solder, blowing the fumes away.

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I am not saying its good, but if kids are trying to get started, its an option rather than moms kitchen table.

And I take your point - people dont breath in the smoke that comes off your soldering iron.  Its not good.

If you dont have a small fan, then slowly breath out as you solder, blowing the fumes away.

Also smouldering wood fumes = not pleasant. Use flux such as from the O gauge Forum.

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My images of part one have been lost, I will buy another of these kits and redo the start, meanwhile I will show part two. 

What to look for, where it went wrong, how do I fix it.

 

After folding the sides (part one) and ensuring its all square, the sides were soldered in the corners, and along the floor the right angle of the sides to the floor were soldered to keep them in shape.

 

Well square is not a suggestion here, and although I thought I took care there was a small error that i had not picked.

 

Also the soldering of the floor caused some unevenness in the corner, causing the doors not to sit flush with the floor. This is what I am showing here.

 

I am not saying this was a good model, but I am brave enough to show it warts and all so others can learn from my mistakes.

 

IMAGES

 

The images show that the sides perhaps moved and then I squared them, making a 1mm error at one end, and thus a gap (Img 00)

 

The doors sat slightly up and not square when I soldered them. My asbestos fingers only so capable. 01a b c

But the beauty of the gas flame thrower is that it heats up a small area VERY quickly (5 seconds) and allows you to re seat it with a gentle tap from a screw driver to get it to sit on the floor properly

It was not much work to do a door, wait till it cooled down, and repeat for all 6 doors.  Now they look straight from the outside

THIS is why I dont use glue

 

2a - If you can, get a small square, its invaluable, if you can get a small and a larger one. You will learn to love them.

The Sides of this kit are SO thin, the bend and warp in the wind.  So keeping them square when you do something is so important. If you have a big lump of metal thats square, thats good too. Here is a piece of brass that I found in a scrap bin. 2b c

 

The sold bars worried me, as thin as a cigarette paper, they came naturally warped and bent. 

So here I have a length of brass right angle (plug for Eileens Emporium)  (love that place)

Using the dremel with a cutting disk two lengths were cut and used to firm up the solebars. 3a b c d

The end on shot shows it looks good 3e

 

Flux and Solder can bleed onto parts that you dont want it to, use a dremel steel brush, or a large flat file, my aldi special is good, it takes these off in moments, and as an additional bonus, leaves a wood grain pattern behind. 

Img 4a & 6a

 

PS - I spend half an hour naming these files and putting them up in order

Then this site randomly organises them.

Any clues how to make them display as you want them ?

 

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Edited by bundeena2230
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Always solder on a off cut of wood. Save small broken drills to peg out small items eg laminating coupling rods.

Heat can draw resin from the timber but this is easily cleaned off. Make small disposable jigs to give you a third hand.

In the black art of soldering, cleanliness IS godliness.

Brass needs cleaning immediately before soldering. Wash your work every session to remove all traces of flux. Mr Muscle or CIF bathroom cleaners are my favourites.

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Always solder on a off cut of wood. Save small broken drills to peg out small items eg laminating coupling rods.

Heat can draw resin from the timber but this is easily cleaned off. Make small disposable jigs to give you a third hand.

In the black art of soldering, cleanliness IS godliness.

Brass needs cleaning immediately before soldering. Wash your work every session to remove all traces of flux. Mr Muscle or CIF bathroom cleaners are my favourites.

Wise words

cleanliness is GOOD

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If you cannot feel your finger burning, see the doctor. Start a collection of useful clips to secure your work. Self locking tweezers are nice but expensive and top heavy if used as a third hand. Crocodile clips, hair grips and tiny G clamps help. Using a wooden base allows drawing pins to keep things steady. Lollipop sticks save burnt fingers, and predrilled, can be used with drawing pins to secure larger items like loco frames.

Lookout for a light pin hammer. Cost less than a good beer or coffee, but will allow you to straighten out distorted work. Car boot sales are a good source of small tools, and never pass up the chance to help a mate with his late grandfather's house clearance.

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I don't want to be too negative, but one reason your sole (sold?) bar is flexible (I assume you mean the overlay with crown plates, bolts etc.) is that it is meant to be folded into a U section, to represent a channel solebar. I haven't got this particular Jidenco kit, but I had to do this on another one, and it is probably one of the (many) worst features of their design. Easier said than done. I tried forming it many years ago before Hold and Fold, so it was a struggle, which I lost, H & F may make it possible.

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You can see from your photo how much deeper the overlay is compared with the structural solebar, resulting in much of the brake gear and axleguards being obscured. I don't know how the width of the channel has to be accommodated to match the bodywork above, presumably they should align.

You have chosen a difficult kit for this exercise, but if you can overcome all the problems you should be set for most available brass wagon kits.

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It maybe worth looking at photographs of the real thing or even other peoples models. I think the problem is a lack of research. 

 

There's one on here half way down. A Parkside kit of the same diagram.

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/galhowles.html

 

And another one here.

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/probloater.html

 

Reading the instructions would be a start. I know they aren't the best so I genuinely sympathise with you.

 

 

Carefully bend U/F channels rivet detail within the channel. This is best done by bending one lip in a vice then putting a piece of 1/8 th brass against the inside right angle, trapping in a vice with unbent lip sticking proud, with a straight edge bend down other lip. Affix both channels to underside of body, edges level with outside of body.

 

http://www.falconbrassworks.com/instructions/WK118.pdf

 

 

 

I'm not trying to be negative, but I think that the being able to "unsolder" you mentioned comes in here.

 

 

 

 

Jason

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Kev I was hoping you would be showing me how to replace those badly designed underframes, never been able to bend them. Nothing like starting with a real hard one to build, think I have about 3 Jedinco kits in various states of build, real stinkers but they do do some interesting prototypes that are too hard to resist

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Quote

“PS - I spend half an hour naming these files and putting them up in order

Then this site randomly organises them.

Any clues how to make them display as you want them ?”

 

Bottom of your text says attached thumbnails, so you have not hit the add to post text next to the image file after it has loaded. 2 images below show how your draft post should look.

 

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Keep typing then add another pic.

Should be one here but I didn’t hit add to post so all photos come at end under attached thumbnails.

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Edited by AdeMoore
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Thanks all for your feedback 

Re : Steamport Southport

 

With respect, rather than criticises - perhaps you can view this from  new users perspective - a 16 year  old that might do this - research ? Get over it, this is post X box - instant fulfilment - if the details are not there, where is the link to find it ?

And as you and I know its not there,   so we have to help new modeller to give them tools that will help them find the information that you and I know where to go... OR - this art is lost.

Perhaps the answer is

IF we want this model making hobby to endure,   Do we make the skills more obvious to find ????????

 

Research     - WHY is there NOT a RnWeb index on kits So i can Find more relative information... NOT why dd you not look   - 

Cus they Wont

or cant...

 

I know, I live with 2 of them...............

 

Unfortunately 

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Hi Bundeena 2230, greetings from the Shire.

 

I suspect I may have discovered one of the other purchasers of MRJ at the Kirrawee Newsagent, since I asked them

to secure it for me.

 

Whilst I fully admire your intention to involve and demonstrate how to go about things, surely this has been done before,

to a limited extent, on RMWeb and, as 'micklner' referred to in his post of 18 March referring to  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/31727-lochgorm-4mm-lner-cov-b-van/

which considers a kit specifically designed so as to serve as a 'new to kit building / soldering exercise'.

 

It might be nice to see a few more step-by-step 'how to's', as you are clearly trying to do, and I can only plead GUILTY to

personal failure in such regard, but surely if a 15 or 16 year old, in the UK anyway, wants to know about railway modelling

the best thing to do would be to join a Model Railway Club ?.

 

I acknowledge things are far more limited in Australia, but given your putative beneficiaries, how does this young British Railway

enthusiast, lacking the skills which seem to be common across railway enthusiasts everywhere, ie concern with detail and research,

arrive at wanting to build a Jidenco kit of anything at all ?

 

I hope you will not find my comments too negative, and I would certainly like to see how your Jidenco build continues.

 

Best regards

Charles

Edited by Charles
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Hi Bundeena 2230, greetings from the Shire.

 

I suspect I may have discovered one of the other purchasers of MRJ at the Kirrawee Newsagent, since I asked them

to secure it for me.

 

Whilst I fully admire your intention to involve and demonstrate how to go about things, surely this has been done before,

to a limited extent, on RMWeb and, as 'micklner' referred to in his post of 18 March referring to  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/31727-lochgorm-4mm-lner-cov-b-van/

which considers a kit specifically designed so as to serve as a 'new to kit building / soldering exercise'.

 

It might be nice to see a few more step-by-step 'how to's', as you are clearly trying to do, and I can only plead GUILTY to

personal failure in such regard, but surely if a 15 or 16 year old, in the UK anyway, wants to know about railway modelling

the best thing to do would be to join a Model Railway Club ?.

 

I acknowledge things are far more limited in Australia, but given your putative beneficiaries, how does this young British Railway

enthusiast, lacking the skills which seem to be common across railway enthusiasts everywhere, ie concern with detail and research,

arrive at wanting to build a Jidenco kit of anything at all ?

 

I hope you will not find my comments too negative, and I would certainly like to see how your Jidenco build continues.

 

Best regards

Charles

 

 

One of the problems with model railway clubs is the wide difference in what clubs offer. I am a member of a very large club and the vast majority are folk who use RTR models, we have the odd scratch builder and some very proficient in kit building. We have several club layouts in different scales and gauges, most use RTR track but build super layouts. My previous club which is tiny in comparison had more accomplished scratch and kit builders, but achieved far less.

 

Its not just going to a club, but finding a club with a person(s) who has the ability/skills required. Plus with young people normally clubs require they are accompanied by a family member.

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One of the problems with model railway clubs is the wide difference in what clubs offer. I am a member of a very large club and the vast majority are folk who use RTR models, we have the odd scratch builder and some very proficient in kit building. We have several club layouts in different scales and gauges, most use RTR track but build super layouts. My previous club which is tiny in comparison had more accomplished scratch and kit builders, but achieved far less.

 

Its not just going to a club, but finding a club with a person(s) who has the ability/skills required. Plus with young people normally clubs require they are accompanied by a family member.

 

Thank you, Hayfield.

 

Very well reprimanded, as I realised I deserved when following your links.

 

My model railway club was EKMRC in 1970, before coming to Australia in 1971.   

 

I guess the 'world' has changed since then, although it deed seem to me at 14

that we were all 'flying in the dark' with forming a new club.

 

We went to Model Rail 1971 in the McLennan Galleries, where we made our

presence known.

 

I was treated as an Adult there, but I understand we might live in a different world

today.

 

Your references show that I was far too quick to say that RMWeb is a bit 'light' on

how to type postings.  Indeed, considered again, 90% of RMWeb postings are

nothing but 'how to' type postings, when read accordingly. 

 

At the risk of imposing upon another's thread, it may well be that a 'Here is a build'

group, of a particular kits may well be a manner in which RMWeb could advance.

 

The obvious question is - 'So are you going to start, Charles ?'.

 

I'll give it my best shot, and I'm happy to be quoted upon having said so.

 

Good Luck to Bundeena (whose namesake is very near to one of the most

beautiful places on planet Earth).

 

Charles

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Thank you Bundeena2230 for your posts. I find your 'real life' experiences with this kit very informative and reassuring that we can all have a go regardless of experience and/or skill level.

I am not the teenager you talk about but I am relatively new to the hobby after an exile of 20+years. It is always interesting to read other people's views and see demonstration of skills, there is always something to learn or an idea of a different way to try. 

 

I have a couple of build threads on RMWeb and try to encourage others to input on my builds to help others reading and myself. Feel free to have a look and comment if you like, the more the merrier.

 

The kit does look particularly tricky in places. I have a few brass wagon and loco kits to build but have been going mad on plastic kits recently hoping that the 'lessons learnt' there will benefit me later when building etched kits.

 

Thank you for your posts, keep them coming.

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Frankly, I don't think it matters how many how to's you see, you will always learn something more.
Everyone has different ways of doing things and/or finds a better way than shown of how to put a kit together, we all learn.
Bundeena.....Keep it going. I'm in my sixties and still learning here in Oz!

 

Khris

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Thank you, Hayfield.

 

Very well reprimanded, as I realised I deserved when following your links.

 

My model railway club was EKMRC in 1970, before coming to Australia in 1971.   

 

I guess the 'world' has changed since then, although it deed seem to me at 14

that we were all 'flying in the dark' with forming a new club.

 

We went to Model Rail 1971 in the McLennan Galleries, where we made our

presence known.

 

I was treated as an Adult there, but I understand we might live in a different world

today.

 

Your references show that I was far too quick to say that RMWeb is a bit 'light' on

how to type postings.  Indeed, considered again, 90% of RMWeb postings are

nothing but 'how to' type postings, when read accordingly. 

 

At the risk of imposing upon another's thread, it may well be that a 'Here is a build'

group, of a particular kits may well be a manner in which RMWeb could advance.

 

The obvious question is - 'So are you going to start, Charles ?'.

 

I'll give it my best shot, and I'm happy to be quoted upon having said so.

 

Good Luck to Bundeena (whose namesake is very near to one of the most

beautiful places on planet Earth).

 

Charles

 

 

Charles

 

As a youngster I had no clubs near, but friends with train sets to start with, then progressing to layouts as we got older.

 

We are in a different world now and most clubs whilst quite happy for anyone to join, for safety reasons require children to be accompanied ( plus we are not child minders)

 

As for skills to be quite honest few and far between at most local type clubs, most of my skills have been developed with the assistance of those on here and Templot Forum

 

You are so right in that it is good to share each others modelling experience, I have received no end of help with many projects, or just simple requests

 

Perhaps we should start a thread about making things from scratch by recycling household items, that is a great learning curve which leads to better building and kitbashing of commercial kits.

 

Good luck and good modelling

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi, I would like to thank all the supportive comments I have received. Great

I have found the part one of this article, and will post it now, following this, showing where I went wrong with the kit.  *** Big news ***  I won another of these kits this week on ebay,  so I will be repeating this first step to correct the error - hopefully  

 

I have also - thanks to the enthusiasm over a couple of messages - to pull out of storage about 20 part built kits that I now have to rummage through boxes to find bits, or make them, so if people are interested, I will post these,   OR  I can make a web site and take it away from here, if this is what the nice people here want.

 

One of which that I will start to redo with "background enthusiasm"  is my wife's  stepfather's  layout  that he sold when he nearly died and went into a retirement home.  (Images below)

If you want to see how I built this from scratch, please comment on it.

It will be DCC controlled with servos, working arms on the dolls ( I was originally an electronics engineer - even built my own DCC decoder using an Arduino)

Here is a few images, starting with the almost completed first stage.

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It had to fit what was already on his layout, at the north end of his station.

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A detailed look at one of the supports 

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The "X" bits, I made a jig to form them, then sat back with a glass of wine and made, and made, and ,,,

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Unfortunately, there are two sides to this 

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I wasnt sure if I should put a clock in the centre or make it a brace

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The base had to be strong, to support the servo motors and electronics, more than solder would cater for,  so I went out and bought a new toy, which was surprisingly not so expensive.

Especially when you consider the amount of fun this thing unleashes.

We still havnt seen the cat since.

PS - I since learned - use a neighbours garage instead, saves cleaning up the burn marks.

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And lots of detaily bits - ie start with a square, cut a slice of tube off

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repeat

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check

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more squares, more tube

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and the oil lamps

 

and how to make translucent lenses for the LED's to shine through

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Patience, is buying a hundred lead oil lamps for the layout

drilling them vertically to insert a LED

drilling them horizontally for the  LED to shine through

Wiring a LED so small you can hardly see, yet have to attach wires to 

And shoving in said oil lamp without the wires shorting out to the oil lamp body.........  I have patience

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So, part one is here

 

Firstly, Grandpa's kit that I bought off ebay.

Typically your main problems besides missing parts, are tarnished brass (goes a rose or orange colour)  and cellotape - used by the kit maker to keep the fret on the cardboard used to hold the kit.

 

The answer, a great Australian invention "BRASSO" 

I use this libarally, applied with an old paint brush, and when I strike a "deep" problem, such as rose colour, where the etching solution has bitten too deep or is still eating into the brass, I will work this with a cotton bud.

Failing that, a Dremel with a soft BRASS circular brush will work that area quite well,  and the same for the discolouration of where tape has sat for 30 years.

A note for new users

If the blemish is light, apply brasso, wait a while, then rub hard with a tissue, or cotton bud, or paper towel. 

BUT  look ahead of where your doing this. IF the fret has small or THIN bits, ease up and work lightly here, or you might snag a part and rip it out of the fret. = uncool

ALSO

if the damage is bad, ie its really discoloured everywhere and rose bits.  Then cote it with Brasso, and go watch a movie.  When you get back the fret will be a dull sand colour, and you should to this.

Re apply a thin coting of brasso over your work, then use a paper towel, tissue, whatever to rub over it.  Your paper will quickly go black, so you rotate your tissue / bud and keep going.

You will go through a lot of tissues, and the harder you rub, the shinneyer it will look - BUT - you WILL damage smaller parts.  So speed is bad, even though it makes things look good quickly.

If people want, I will make a YouTube video and post it to show how I do it.

 

OK so here is Grandpa's fret from ebay

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And you clean it with Brasso, maybe once, maybe more, its amazing how it looks good after multiple cleans. 

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Then wash it off.

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I am going to post the instructions so the numbers of the kit will be meaningful.

My image here has highlighted the numbers etched in the brass in RED - which are easier to see when its clean.

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Now early this year I bought a load of brass from a retiring modeller who also sold me this "hold and fold" bending jig.  Which looks great, but somehow my bends were not perfect, but looked good.  Initially

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Now here is a tip for new brass users - take photos - lots of them, then zoom in and LOOK....  I missed this step here, I did not look and take notice.

When I looked from the top - I thought the sides were so thin it was naturally buckling, but if you stop and think about it. it buckles for a reason.  DUH,,,,

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So, as a macho beast does, I squared up the sides, cus I can, and heck it looked good when I did.   

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BUT  I was masking a problem I should have gone back to - to find out why....  Looking here,  its not so bad, is it ?

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IF   I had looked a little closer - like I am here,  I would have seen the clues in the photos I was taking but not looking at..... another DUH....

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Without zooming in, it looked ok, sat flat and was kinda square.  Depending on how hard you pushed the set square into the thin thin brass....

post-7474-0-40822100-1522662473_thumb.jpg

 

Note all the black bits of paper from polishing the brass.

 

wasnt really square, but it WAS clean......

 

 

 

post-7474-0-07233600-1522661757_thumb.jpg

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