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Red's Unsound Buildings - Designing Kelsby

freelance KLR Norfolk Light Railway 00 scenery kitbash




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#1 RedGemAlchemist

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 16:43

Having decided that the designing of the KLR itself might not be the most appropriate for the workbench thread on the RTR forum, I've set up this thread for the making of the actual railway and the towns and villages that it runs through.

Let's begin then with the obvious - the K of the KLR itself, Kelsby. Trying to recreate a small, typical East Anglian town is going to be difficult. I already designed the station in full a few weeks ago back on the workbench:
Kelsby Station final.png
:but what I want to focus on now is the village around it. I will be waiting a while for the actual construction of things - best to have a baseboard before I actually begin putting things together, but it's good to plan ahead and know what I want. This is a thread for brainstorming, since I like getting input from you far more experienced modellers. Right, let's go Town Planning for Dummies!


Edited by RedGemAlchemist, 25 March 2018 - 15:32 .

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#2 RedGemAlchemist

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 19:47

One thing I will start with, that I do have definitively in my head, is the idea of Kelsby being focused around a round towered Saxon church, which I consider quintessentially Norfolk, sat on a small raised churchyard overlooking a square with a village sign. 

800px-St_Peter,_Rockland_St_Peter,_Norfolk_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1703365.jpg

My inspiration is above. For those unfamiliar with mid-Norfolk, this is St. Peter's church in the village of Rockland, which is within walking distance of my house (in fact, Rockland is also where I grew up.) I pass this perfectly quaint little building every work day. And this being East Anglia I need to include a round towered church somewhere. 


Edited by RedGemAlchemist, 19 March 2018 - 20:18 .

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#3 RedGemAlchemist

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 18:41

I should probably have laid out my modus operandi for the KLR's aesthetic in the OP. Oops.

 

I want to basically distil what gives East Anglia, specifically Norfolk and Cambridgeshire, their unique character. I like to think I have a nice grasp on the Norfolk front, having lived here my entire life. However, some things are a bit more vague, especially on the Cambridgeshire front as my only real experience of Cambridgeshire is Ely, as I spend a lot of time there (my elder brother living there) which I don't especially think is a fair depiction. 

 

What I have so far really:

  • Norfolk likes flint. A lot. Also thatch
  • Norfolk has a lot of round towered churches
  • East Anglia has a lot of churches in general
  • Lot of pubs too
  • And bridges
  • It's all very, VERY green with an awful lot of trees
  • East Anglia has a lot of old airfields
  • East Anglia LOVES its historic buildings. Though really that can be said for Great Britain in general

That's... pretty much it. Most of it I can't particularly put into words, rather unhelpfully. I probably sound like a total berk saying I "know" Norfolk then coming up with THAT. But there you go. If anyone has anything to suggest, as always, feel free. Especially fellow East Anglians, your help would be most appreciated on this particular point.


Edited by RedGemAlchemist, 19 March 2018 - 20:19 .

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#4 FPH 603

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 20:40

This is sounding great. I follow with interest.
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#5 RedGemAlchemist

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 20:57

This is sounding great. I follow with interest.

Unsurprising coming from you buddy  :laugh: Joking aside, thanks. Even though it's just the framework for my scenery. Distilling an entire region's architecture, landscape and atmosphere to a quintessential is hard. Any help is greatly appreciated. 

Designing this is also going to be difficult to be honest, as I have no idea how big the first baseboard is going to be or even how much room Kelsby station itself will take up before anything else is added. I've not even got any boards yet, just the smattering of stock and locos that are on my Workbench thread. Such is the point of this thread, to give me more headspace to focus on just the design of the layout itself rather than having to also write around my surprisingly prolific workbench.


Edited by RedGemAlchemist, 19 March 2018 - 20:58 .


#6 FPH 603

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 21:18

You can get printable track templates from Peco, and from there you can determine how big of a baseboard you need. I actually did the reverse and chose a baseboard size before I planned the layout itself, and just chucked about old pieces of track until I had a good plan. The layout basically evolved from there. Once you have figured everything out it's to the model shop to get some track!
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#7 RedGemAlchemist

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 21:26

You can get printable track templates from Peco, and from there you can determine how big of a baseboard you need. I actually did the reverse and chose a baseboard size before I planned the layout itself, and just chucked about old pieces of track until I had a good plan. The layout basically evolved from there. Once you have figured everything out it's to the model shop to get some track!

To be fair, now I have a basic idea of what I'm doing with it I'm probably going to end up doing the latter, knowing me.


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#8 RedGemAlchemist

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 08:57

Anyway, here is the KLR route map, which some of you may recognise from my Workbench:

KLR Map.png

I am mapping as far as Alnerwick at least. I'll go further if I have the room. As aforementioned I have no idea how big this layout will be. My shed has a limited amount of space and I'm working in 00 so this will likely get very big very fast. I may not even get as far as Alnerwick!
 

Basic station layout plans

Kelsby Station final.png

Kelsby

 

Hewe Station final.png

Hewe

 

Alnerwick Station Final.png

And Alnerwick so far, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

 

I have no idea on how much baseboard I'll need, so I'm trying to get the aesthetic down pat first ready for when I can.


Edited by RedGemAlchemist, 20 March 2018 - 17:30 .

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#9 RedGemAlchemist

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Posted 21 March 2018 - 20:17

Ok. So I'm starting to have a plan. I've decided to break my own rule and start getting and making buildings that I know I'll definitely need. Kelsby village church can wait until I totally know whether I can fit it and it still look realistic. So I'll probably start with Kelsby signal box and station building. 

 

1920283_89184a39.jpg

This is the signal box at Wymondham South on the Mid Norfolk. Here is what comes to mind for me when I think of a Norfolk signal box. That or this:

5170310_e5096a43.jpg

This one is at Attleborough. I see it frequently as I take the train from Attleborough when I want to go into Norwich. 

 

2388397_d3d106ee.jpg

Station building? Has to be Whitwell. I love this little building and I feel something similar to this would fit the feel of Kelsby perfectly. 

 

So, I'm headed into Norwich on Tuesday so I might be able to pick up something along these lines when I'm in Langley's. Just thought I'd share some of my inspirations with you.


Edited by RedGemAlchemist, 21 March 2018 - 20:18 .

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#10 AdeMoore

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 22:31

Re “I have no idea on how much baseboard I'll need, so I'm trying to get the aesthetic down pat first ready for when I can.”.
Liking the look of this I did a similar thing, I wanted to model the S&D from Masbury to Windsor Hill tunnels in 00 so I found a way of calclating it 1st on Google maps you can right click and measure on a PC.
On a tablet I downloaded DistancePinner screen shot below.

65F85B20-CAC3-4ED3-8C2C-C2CD7A72002B.png



That gave me the scale 1 to 1 measurement 2.6 KM

Then plugged that into a 00 scale calculator like the Authentic Coalville Models one http://digitalarena....tm#.WrQBXsqnyhA
But that needs adobe flash so no good on my iPad
https://www.maptools...cale_calculator Found one here I needed a space of 34 meters to fit it in!
Or
2.6km is 1.616 miles
5280 feet in a mile so 5280 x 1.616 = 8532.48 x 4 = 34129.92 which equals 34.129 metres.
My shed is 5m at most with a doorway in that so no chance! Your fantasy mind does play tricks!
I hope that’s helpful though I’m uncertain if your proposal is fictitious or not!
Cheers
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#11 RedGemAlchemist

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Posted 23 March 2018 - 06:08

Re “I have no idea on how much baseboard I'll need, so I'm trying to get the aesthetic down pat first ready for when I can.”.
Liking the look of this I did a similar thing, I wanted to model the S&D from Masbury to Windsor Hill tunnels in 00 so I found a way of calclating it 1st on Google maps you can right click and measure on a PC.
On a tablet I downloaded DistancePinner screen shot below.

attachicon.gif65F85B20-CAC3-4ED3-8C2C-C2CD7A72002B.png



That gave me the scale 1 to 1 measurement 2.6 KM

Then plugged that into a 00 scale calculator like the Authentic Coalville Models one http://digitalarena....tm#.WrQBXsqnyhA
But that needs adobe flash so no good on my iPad
https://www.maptools...cale_calculator Found one here I needed a space of 34 meters to fit it in!
Or
2.6km is 1.616 miles
5280 feet in a mile so 5280 x 1.616 = 8532.48 x 4 = 34129.92 which equals 34.129 metres.
My shed is 5m at most with a doorway in that so no chance! Your fantasy mind does play tricks!
I hope that’s helpful though I’m uncertain if your proposal is fictitious or not!
Cheers

Hmm. Could be helpful, however I assure you the KLR is entirely freelance and a complete product of my own mind and the map is meant to be a very rough guide as to where it is rather than how far it runs.. 

And my shed is pretty big (it was originally a stable) so I'd be able to manage 20m if I wrap it around the walls. Food for thought.


Edited by RedGemAlchemist, 23 March 2018 - 09:34 .

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#12 RedGemAlchemist

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Posted 24 March 2018 - 10:20

Been looking at Bachmann Branchline stuff. Man, do they make some nice prebuilt resin buildings. 
I should probably explain that I am NOT a fan of card buildings. I know, blasphemy, right? But with card kits I have kind of a bad history. So for me it's plastic kits, prebuilt or wooden kits, mainly because they're more durable, especially considering my layout will be in a 400+ year-old clay-lump stable so if a hole appears in the roof card ones might not last. Preferably plastic kits, as that then allows for modification to KLR styling. 

Hornby-Skaledale-R9836-OO-Scale-Granite-Station-Building681.jpg

Found this Skaledale beauty too. Paint that into Norfolk carstone and I think we'd have Kelsby station down pat.


Edited by RedGemAlchemist, 24 March 2018 - 14:55 .

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#13 beast66606

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 19:52

Interesting project.

 

I'm now a Norfolk boy - living not too far from Eccles Road.

 

Wymondham (South box) is still on the national network (for now) although closed of course.



#14 RedGemAlchemist

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 20:02

Interesting project.

 

I'm now a Norfolk boy - living not too far from Eccles Road.

 

Wymondham (South box) is still on the national network (for now) although closed of course.

Thanks. This is just one thread of two that I have about the making of the KLR - the other of course being my loco and stock workbench. Nice to have another fellow East Anglian on board - every little helps.

Eccles Road is just down the road from me, so very local indeed in fact.
Hmm. Thought Wymondham South was MNR property. The more you know. I know Wymondham Abbey station is though.


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#15 FPH 603

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 21:01

Liking the new title! :laugh:



#16 RedGemAlchemist

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 04:11

Liking the new title! :laugh:

Well, I just thought "my other two ongoing threads have comedic titles, so why not make it three for three?"


Edited by RedGemAlchemist, 26 March 2018 - 04:12 .

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#17 beast66606

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 10:14

Thanks. This is just one thread of two that I have about the making of the KLR - the other of course being my loco and stock workbench. Nice to have another fellow East Anglian on board - every little helps.

Eccles Road is just down the road from me, so very local indeed in fact.
Hmm. Thought Wymondham South was MNR property. The more you know. I know Wymondham Abbey station is though.

 

Wymondham South will be moved - eventually !

 

You're over the other side of the A11 - there be dragons over that side. :blum:


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#18 RedGemAlchemist

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 12:38

You're over the other side of the A11 - there be dragons over that side. :blum:

Only if you go towards Watton. You're relatively safe here in Ellingham as long as you don't go outside xD


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#19 Guy Rixon

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 15:24

Concerning Cambridgeshire and vernacular architecture...

 

Cambridgeshire has more clap-boarded buildings than I'm used to seeing elsewhere. This includes houses in villages, not just barns and such. The boarding seems to be stained black in most cases. 

 

Clay for brickmaking in Cambridgshire is mainly yellow. If a Cambridgshire building is in red brick, then either the building is very old (from before local brick-making)) or it is rotten posh and they could afford to import prettier bricks.

 

There's no decent building-stone in Cambridgeshire. Churches and university colleges may be built of stone, but houses and store buildings not so much. There is, apparently, exactly one dwelling house built of stone in Cambridge city (actually called "The Stone House", at the town end of Madingley Road; used to belong to Clive Sinclair).


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#20 RedGemAlchemist

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 16:15

Concerning Cambridgeshire and vernacular architecture...

 

Cambridgeshire has more clap-boarded buildings than I'm used to seeing elsewhere. This includes houses in villages, not just barns and such. The boarding seems to be stained black in most cases. 

 

Clay for brickmaking in Cambridgshire is mainly yellow. If a Cambridgshire building is in red brick, then either the building is very old (from before local brick-making)) or it is rotten posh and they could afford to import prettier bricks.

 

There's no decent building-stone in Cambridgeshire. Churches and university colleges may be built of stone, but houses and store buildings not so much. There is, apparently, exactly one dwelling house built of stone in Cambridge city (actually called "The Stone House", at the town end of Madingley Road; used to belong to Clive Sinclair).

Thanks for the information. Kelsby is just over the Norfolk border (hence the use of carstone/carrstone/gingerbread/whatever you want to call it), and I don't know if the Cambridgeshire side being mostly in the Fens east of Ely has any bearing (there appears to be a lot of stone buildings in Ely - go there a lot as my brother lives there) but thanks. It'll help make Hewe and Alnerwick, plus the other stations if I end up making them, that little bit more authentic.
I know round towers on churches are an almost exclusively Norfolk thing, which is why Kelsby's church will have a round tower but none of the others (if any) will. Planning on using an empty silicon sealant tube I took from the bins at work for the basis of the tower. Doing the flint exterior is going to be a challenge.

Thanks for the useful information, Guy. If there are any other recommendations, not just from you but from anyone, as always feel free to say.


Edited by RedGemAlchemist, 26 March 2018 - 17:16 .

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#21 RedGemAlchemist

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 15:24

Ok. Kelsby will now have platforms. Also some pillboxes. Ok then. Langley's didn't have any kits by Ratio, which I was planning to use for my railway buildings as they're cheap and, in my mind, perfect for modifying, but beggars can't be choosers. So here we are.

DSC_00011.jpg

Already started building the first pillbox as I write this. Was expecting Metcalfe's stuff to be flimsy garbage like the crummy cardboard kits Hornby used to put out in the '90s. This stuff is more like thin wood. Pleasantly surprised by that. Might have to try more Metcalfe stuff for little things.


Edited by RedGemAlchemist, 27 March 2018 - 15:33 .

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#22 RedGemAlchemist

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 16:26

And behold! The quickest build I've ever done to this point!

Kelsby Pillbox.jpg

Plus there's some lore to go with it, that I came up with as I made it. 

There is a World War 2 pillbox stood by the road entrance to the yard at Kelsby station. It was built in 1940 on the request of the ever-cautious Edward Sr., the 4th Baronet Bradleigh, then CEO of the KLR, to protect the station from any invading force who may wish to capture the railway (though why any invading Germans would want a railway that runs from the middle of nowhere to the outer edge of nowhere is still a topic of much debate). Shortly after it was built his then 7-year old daughter, future KLR CME Emily Bradleigh, along with her younger brother Edward Jr., painted a wooden sign reading "Kelsby Station" in crude bright red letters and hung it in front of the embrasure pointing out into the road, replacing the hand-carved sign that had been destroyed for the pillbox's installation. Edward Sr. was charmed, but not overly impressed and removed it.
Following the War the pillbox sat on the corner and simply rotted as there was no real reason to restore it, until 1980 when Edward Jr., by this point the 5th Baronet Bradleigh and CEO of the KLR and apparently remembering fond childhood memories with his older sister, had it restored in full, its door painted vibrant green to match the woodwork of the KLR's buildings... and a sign, painted by his own children much in the same vein as the one he and his sister had made so long ago, was placed in the same place. This sign remains, in memory of both Emily and Edward Jr. who have both since passed but were so influential to the railway as a whole for much of the 20th Century. Colloquially known as "The Slab", the pillbox continues to greet those entering the station at the start of their journey along the KLR, its welcoming green door and charmingly childlike sign flying amusingly in the face of the reason it was built.


Edited by RedGemAlchemist, 27 March 2018 - 16:34 .

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#23 RedGemAlchemist

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 19:39

Platforms.jpg

And I now have all the platforms I will need for Kelsby... passenger platforms anyway. Goods platforms are another matter. Not painted obviously, and I have a question though: which would be better? Red bricks, considering Kelsby itself is in Norfolk, or that yellowy brick that Guy talked about because it's so close to the Fens? Hmm. Decisions, decisions...

Also, for a 50+ year old mould the Kitmaster platforms are not half bad.


Edited by RedGemAlchemist, 27 March 2018 - 19:45 .

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#24 Shadow

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 19:40

One thing I will start with, that I do have definitively in my head, is the idea of Kelsby being focused around a round towered Saxon church, which I consider quintessentially Norfolk, sat on a small raised churchyard overlooking a square with a village sign. 

attachicon.gif800px-St_Peter,_Rockland_St_Peter,_Norfolk_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1703365.jpg

My inspiration is above. For those unfamiliar with mid-Norfolk, this is St. Peter's church in the village of Rockland, which is within walking distance of my house (in fact, Rockland is also where I grew up.) I pass this perfectly quaint little building every work day. And this being East Anglia I need to include a round towered church somewhere. 

 

Another small round tower church at Shereford, just west of Fakenham.

 

St Nicholas

 

DSC03468.JPG


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#25 RedGemAlchemist

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 20:18

Another small round tower church at Shereford, just west of Fakenham.

 

St Nicholas

 

attachicon.gifDSC03468.JPG

Been there a couple of times, actually. It really is a beautiful little building.

East Anglia is full of little places like that are just quirky and almost cute. I want the KLR to be all about that. Those little things that make the region I call home the weird, wonderful little backwater it is.


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