Decoder at Fault?

[Sir TophamHatt]

I bought a couple of these decoders (I'm sure it was these), but no matter what settings I try I can't get smooth running all the time.

 

So wondering if it's the loco, my track or the decoder?

 

The train goes round the layout but will occasionally stop. Without intervention, it'll restart itself a few seconds later and carry on. It doesn't happen in the same place all the time, and sometimes it'll stop and restart about 5 or 6 times within the space of 15cm.

 

Seems to not like low speed. If I crank it up to 28, it's generally fine.

 

The track is pretty okay with many other trains, many of the same wheelbase.

That makes me think perhaps it's the loco.

 

The locos (a Bachmann Pannier and Hattons/DJM 58xx) run fine on DC. I am aware of the problems some people have had with the 58xx, but I don't think this is it.

 

So this is what makes me think the deocder just isn't up to the same standard as my Zimos or Lenzs.

 

Should I look at changing it?

[JST]

I have a Bachman loco with one of those decoders and it is fine.

 

I did have a couple of locos behaving as you describe but managed to cure the problem with the time honoured method of deep cleaning and sanitising the loco wheels and pickups.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...So this is what makes me think the decoder just isn't up to the same standard as my Zimos or Lenzs...

 

Not by a long chalk in my limited experience.  I had to tell a friend a couple of years past that much as he might have liked the low low price he got his multipack for, since he doesn't like the running when installed they aren't a saving at all. Despite endless adjustment on my part, they jerked about: fitted the same locos with a Lenz standard or Zimo and they performed perfectly on the same track on default settings. I did the comparison right in front of him, and he still doesn't want to believe it, but wants me to 'keep trying'. Afraid I have become unsympathetic, as the tone of what I have posted may well indicate. Polishing turds is no fun.

[Sir TophamHatt]

Hmm.

Hattons did give me some settings, which seemed to work but giving the loco a play today, just jerky.

I'll try and get a video.

 

Like I say, it might be my track isn't clean enough, but it's had probably 30 mins of constant running, if that. Most was brand new, or NOS.

[soony]

Hmm.

Hattons did give me some settings, which seemed to work but giving the loco a play today, just jerky.

I'll try and get a video.

 

Like I say, it might be my track isn't clean enough, but it's had probably 30 mins of constant running, if that. Most was brand new, or NOS.

did you remove the capacitors across the motor circuit?

 

Is the circuit wired for best practice on DCC , ie no loops and snubbers at the open end ( electrically open end) ....?

Edited March 19, 2018 by soony

[pauliebanger]

How much time have you already wasted on this and still not got a satisfactory solution?

 

 

Just fit a ZIMO in the first place and save all this faffing around.

[Sir TophamHatt]

Just to bring this to a conclusion, I ended up sending the decoders back (Hattons did accept them fine, no questions asked).

Fitted a couple of Zimo and both locos work fine at low speed, no stalling.

 

Thanks

[slngshotx]

I also returned a Hattons decoder for a refund, with the same issue.

 

Contacted Hattons initially and they couldn't offer any advice, other than try a different decoder, so I ended up purchasing a cheapo off Ebay which ran much better.

 

If anyone else has this problem I made a video showing the issue, the engine just stop/starts at random with no control input.

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WMswdCba2N5odpDlwgfPyZWNwWP9ceLW

[MarkK]

I also returned a Hattons decoder for a refund, with the same issue.

 

Contacted Hattons initially and they couldn't offer any advice, other than try a different decoder, so I ended up purchasing a cheapo off Ebay which ran much better.

 

If anyone else has this problem I made a video showing the issue, the engine just stop/starts at random with no control input.

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WMswdCba2N5odpDlwgfPyZWNwWP9ceLW

I have had exactly the same issue with these decoders.  

[Izzy]

I have had this problem with what you could call the 'cheaper' decoders at times, and especially the Bachmann branded Soundtrax N gauge ones - the 6-pin blue sleeve type. The sightest error with the signal to the decoder, poor current collection etc, and they seem to re-set to zero and start off from scratch again. Just poorly written/basic firmware/components IMHO. I had cascaded these down to just lighting in DMU trailer cars but they seem useless even for this, the lights constantly going out when the driven car lights stay on, so they are just spares for basic testing now with new installs/re-builds, anywhere where if they go phut it will be no big loss.

 

As has been said many times it does come down to the 'get what you pay for' scenario. Use Zimo/CT and the difference is clear, they seem to remember their last settings and generally carry on.

 

With the current availability of the Zimo MX600 & MX622n at @£20 using anything else just seems to me a total waste of time and effort unless you need really small decoders for 2mm when CT are supreme.

 

Izzy

[MarkK]

I also returned a Hattons decoder for a refund, with the same issue.

 

Contacted Hattons initially and they couldn't offer any advice, other than try a different decoder, so I ended up purchasing a cheapo off Ebay which ran much better.

 

If anyone else has this problem I made a video showing the issue, the engine just stop/starts at random with no control input.

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WMswdCba2N5odpDlwgfPyZWNwWP9ceLW

Hatton's wouldn't have my decoders back because I didn't have the little clear packet they came in, despite having their logo printed all over them !  Lesson learned.

[lambretta]

sounds the same as this thread 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/133335-hattons-decoder-problem/

[slngshotx]

Hatton's wouldn't have my decoders back because I didn't have the little clear packet they came in, despite having their logo printed all over them ! Lesson learned.

Strange I sent mine back in an anti-static components bag, since the plastic packet had torn anyway.

 

I'd maybe ask again, not sure they can insist on the original packaging. I'd consider the decoders faulty.

 

Let us know how you get on.

[MarkK]

Strange I sent mine back in an anti-static components bag, since the plastic packet had torn anyway.

 

I'd maybe ask again, not sure they can insist on the original packaging. I'd consider the decoders faulty.

 

Let us know how you get on.

Just had a read through their T&C's, there is a clause on original packaging.  Shame really, its only £30 - going to cost them more in the long run if I never go back.  The most annoying thing is that its duff gear, and I am not alone in having experienced it.  I have invested in a Powercab and Lenz decoders now and have moved on. 

[Phil S]

Do the terms and conditions apply in the case of a faulty product? - surely only to 'changes of mind' under long distance selling regulations.

-or is it the case that the decoder is working 'as it should'  - did they list a series of exclusions (eg by current rating specification) that would mean it is not intended for the loco you chose to fit in?  - did they ask what loco it was for, or did you tell them such that specific skill and judgement was provided?

[MarkK]

Do the terms and conditions apply in the case of a faulty product? - surely only to 'changes of mind' under long distance selling regulations.

-or is it the case that the decoder is working 'as it should'  - did they list a series of exclusions (eg by current rating specification) that would mean it is not intended for the loco you chose to fit in?  - did they ask what loco it was for, or did you tell them such that specific skill and judgement was provided?

The decoders were the recommended items specified next to the relevant model on their website.  The decoder instructions confirmed that each individual decoder was appropriate for the model they were intended.

 

Following the first communication with an advisor, I was left with the impression that my choice of controller - 'Hornby Railmaster via E-Link' was only good for Hornby decoders and, therefore I was not experiencing the performance from their decoders as advertised.

 

I took this on board.  I invested in a NCE Powercab and found the decoders exhibited the same behaviour.  I operated the locomotives with Lenz decoders and the performance is remarkable.

 

At this point I made contact for a second time and the advisor agreed that it sounded like the decoders were faulty.  They agreed to take them back up to the point I advised I did not have the original packaging, at which point they declined stating it was their returns policy. 

 

The decoders were fitted to brand new locomotives, suitably run in.  I tested them on both layout and a rolling road.  I have lost countless hours altering CV's to no avail.  Then having read other members had also experienced the same, even seeing a posted video of said decoder exhibiting exactly the same fault, they must have at least an inkling that they have sold me substandard goods. 

[Crosland]

At this point I made contact for a second time and the advisor agreed that it sounded like the decoders were faulty.  They agreed to take them back up to the point I advised I did not have the original packaging, at which point they declined stating it was their returns policy. 

 

If the goods are returned as faulty, then they cannot insist on the original packaging.

 

One of my biggest bugbears is companies that do not understand their responsibilities under consumer legislation. it's real shame that a company like Hattons also seem to fall into this category.

[Oldddudders]

I’m not clear whether the Hattons product is actually faulty, or simply not good enough for the OP’s purpose, which does seem reasonable. It might well be that some other locos would be more forgiving.

 

Perhaps the model equivalent of the new car owner complaining of something, and being told “They all do that, sir.”

[MarkK]

I’m not clear whether the Hattons product is actually faulty, or simply not good enough for the OP’s purpose, which does seem reasonable. It might well be that some other locos would be more forgiving.

 

Perhaps the model equivalent of the new car owner complaining of something, and being told “They all do that, sir.”

The decoders were recommended for the model by Hatton's themselves.  On both locomotives the decoder manages approx. quarter wheel rotation before stopping.  Forgive me for expecting more of them.  A member has posted a video to this thread of the problem.

[Oldddudders]

The decoders were recommended for the model by Hatton's themselves.  On both locomotives the decoder manages approx. quarter wheel rotation before stopping.  Forgive me for expecting more of them.  A member has posted a video to this thread of the problem.

I do not dispute your right to a product that works. Please read what I wrote. But if “they all do that” rather than your examples being defective, it is not quite the same thing.

[MarkK]

I do not dispute your right to a product that works. Please read what I wrote. But if “they all do that” rather than your examples being defective, it is not quite the same thing.

I wouldn't imagine "they all do that", particularly as other members have stated that they had operated the controller/decoder combination as I did without issue.  It's sad that a major retailer who I thought of better fobbed me off blaming the issue on a particular controller.  Only to purchase a popular well known second to prove it wasn't.   

[Torper]

If "they all do that", they're all defective and shouldn't be on the market.  As Crosland says, consumer law is quite clear; if a product is faulty you can return it regardless as to whether or not you have the original packaging and should not be fobbed off as MarkK has been (it's not too late to go back to them and I suggest you do so, quoting this thread if necessary).  That is different to the situation where you're just returning something because merely you don't like it, or ordered the wrong thing - then the retailer can expect it to be returned in a resellable condition with, presumably, the original packaging.

 

DT

Edited May 25, 2018 by Torper

[Sir TophamHatt]

While this has no bearing now, heres a video of the Hattons decoders:

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ofkiZH8G-wTg8enk-y-eonZjnYY64h0Z

 

I had to push it twice but you can see it randomly starts and stops.

 

Same as the other video and as described above.

 

Fitted the Zimo and get none of these problems.  No messing about with CV numbers, just use the default Zimo settings.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Sir TophamHatt

[Phil S]

have you removed ALL the capacitors (including the one beneath the motor)-  and also seen if there was a difference between back emf on and off ??  ....   not that that excuses unworkable performance - but may explain it,and the highlight the decoder weakness.

[MarkK]

have you removed ALL the capacitors (including the one beneath the motor)-  and also seen if there was a difference between back emf on and off ??  ....   not that that excuses unworkable performance - but may explain it,and the highlight the decoder weakness.

I had tried them in a model with all capacitors removed.  I went through all the possibilities with regards CV's.  The two Lenz chips work remarkably in the two models with factory fitted capacitors left in place.  What is worthy of note is that both decoders had some CV settings differing to what the factory settings should have been according to the literature supplied.  On re-setting the decoder factory defaults then appeared.  Which makes me suspicious that these had already been somewhere else, although i can't prove that.