RhB Station signalling

[MartinB]

Folks,

 

Despite taking lots of photos of various stations, I don't have enough to work out what signalling the following:

 

Stugl

Begun (before being rebuilt)

Mout

Preda

 

Can anyone help as to what aspects these stations have?  I could have a reasonable guess, but would prefer to get them correct

 

Thanks

 

Martin

[MartinB]

You can find cab-ride video's on YT showing this section as well as Streetview from Google, who covered this line as well.

 

In general the RhB is now upgrading their stations with new signalling.

 

In the old situation, most stations the size of those you're interested in had an entry and exit signal on each side of the station. All signals were 3 position lights : green/red/yellow (top->bottom). The mainline was signalled for green, the siding would be green/yellow. Both exit signals would carry an additional signal for departure (departure-starter: white/green diagonally).

 

In the new situation, each track would have individual signals made for the respective track: 2-postion lights for the mainline, 3-position lights for the siding(s). Each exit signal would carry the departure-starter signal. Shunting would be governed with dwarf-signals, copiously spread throughout the station, generally between both entry signals.

 

Do note that the 3-position lights could also have a green/red/green combination, depending on how fast the siding can be run over: green/green allows 60 kph, green/yellow just 40 or even 30 kph.

 

HTH!

 

The cab rides are a good idea.  With some of the other additional lights on the signals, I may go for some of the Microscale ones then

 

Martin

[PaulRhB]

Go to google maps and you can drop the street view guy on the line and ride the RhB for the up to date stuff.
Here's a traditional set up leaving the siding, track 1, with Green - yellow at Wiesen Copyright Google
Dropped pin
near Bahnhofstrasse 12, 7494 Wiesen, Switzerland
https://goo.gl/maps/YZDQQrcax222


As DM says YouTube videos are good if you find the older ones for the original signalling
These were the diagrams I did for Rhätia that had three tracks. EDIT: Vorsignals corrected thanks to DM

 

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2018 by PaulRhB

[PaulRhB]

Apart from missing the the lower indicator box / shunting allowed signal below the head it's done to cab ride videos from the late 90's. As I was using the Schneider signals that don't offer that option I left it out.

A RhB driver helped with the detail and the bit that was really fudged was the junction to the lower branch which was too close in but that's not on these diagrams.

 

This is an extract from Gion Caprez's help with Rhätia that the diagrams were done from although the junction mentioned isn't on these diagrams as it was fudged

 

"Quote

1-track numbering. Let's assume the track next to the station building and the through track are the original layout. Then a few decades later the fast loop was added. Track numbering would be 1-3 starting next to the station. Track 1 would be reached by a pair of "slow" turnouts like No. 4., while track 3 would have a pair of "fast" turnout like No. 6.

 

2- signal aspects would be "green" for track 2 (entering and leaving), "amber/green" for track 1, "green/green" for track 3. So you would need 4 of the 4 lens signals.

 

3- signals are generally placed on the left hand side (today's standard). But on single lines they are placed where convenient. I would place the signals in the station somewhere between the points and the frog of the outermost turnout, like you did.

 

4- the signalling of the junction is a more difficult matter. You may look at Reichenau as a precedent. The present signaling, installed last year, has speed indications that need a lot of signals. I would suggest something like the previous layout, where the junction is secured by block signals:

"green" indicating passage through the straight track, "green/green" through the diverging track. So the upper signal on your plan would be ok., and the lower one needs another green lens. Then you need to place a signal with "green/red/green" lenses just next to the points for trains running leftward. As a bonus you can wire the station signal to show "amber/amber" when the junction signal is red!

 

5-you need a signal guarding the station entry for trains coming down the loop, again of the 4 lens variety.

Quote"

 

Hard to find the older style on google now, there's a lot of variation Kublis has a three aspect signal into the station but 4 aspect leaving! Finding correct period photos is the only way to be fully accurate. Even signals siting to the left varied a lot with many on the right for sighting.

Images copyright Google

Zernez

 

Zuoz

Second signal added but still keeping four aspect for the green/green

 

Kublis

Edited March 22, 2018 by PaulRhB

[MartinB]

Go to google maps and you can drop the street view guy on the line and ride the RhB for the up to date stuff.

Here's a traditional set up leaving the siding, track 1, with Green - yellow at Wiesen Copyright Google

Dropped pin

near Bahnhofstrasse 12, 7494 Wiesen, Switzerland

https://goo.gl/maps/YZDQQrcax222

IMG_3400.PNG

 

As DM says YouTube videos are good if you find the older ones for the original signalling

These were the diagrams I did for Rhätia that had three tracks.

image003.png

 

image004.png

Thanks Paul,

 

The signaling finally makes sense to me   I am also looking at some of the Schneider signals, but think I'll end up going with a number of Microscale signals.  I'll take a look at Google earth as well....I always forget about that.

 

Thanks

 

Martin

[PaulRhB]

The new 'speed signalling' is different again and most of the old style single signal indications have now been upgraded with signals for each main track as the image of Zuoz above, (but not track 1 usually the loop siding), retaining the same indications though.

At Zuoz the right hand one retains all four aspect positions ,(green-red-yellow-green), with the yellow it doesn't need blanked out to allow it to show green green while the left one, (green-red-yellow), only needs a single green bulb as it doesn't apply to track 3 at all.

Edited March 22, 2018 by PaulRhB

[MartinB]

Hi Paul,

 

I used to have a link to a site that explained Swiss signaling, but cannot find the link.  The info above helps for stations, but with the advent of more speed signaling, how do things look on the open route?  Do you have any links at all?

 

Thanks for your help

 

Martin

[PaulRhB]

No sorry, do you mean this site?

http://xover.mud.at/~invisible/mirror/sig/asr/ensigchsysl.html

 

Nothing on speed signalling I'm afraid, apart from cab ride videos, as my modelling is focused pre the station rebuilds I haven't looked into it myself.

Edited March 22, 2018 by PaulRhB

[PaulRhB]

Sorry I missed that I'd been told seperately that was only speed signalling so hadn't checked further. I'll update the drawings tomorrow I thought with white green you were talking about the shunt permissions not the Distant / Vorsignal. Must read it slower

[PaulRhB]

Drawings corrected thanks

[MartinB]

I watch a number of cab ride videos on YouTube, a order for a largish number of Schneider distant signal ordered.  The more I think of things, I certainly feel the Microscale signals will be the way to go.....

 

I see Q decoders seem to be the preferred decoders for these signals, does anyone have any experience of them?

 

Martin

[WIMorrison]

I am looking for the physical size of the 2 aspect signals used in some of the pictures - I have seen a YouTube vid of a chap making them and think I might give it a go, but I am unclear on the actual sizes.

 

Size is H0 or real life will work, ideally face place size and height of pole

 

Thanks

 

Iain

[PaulRhB]

I am looking for the physical size of the 2 aspect signals used in some of the pictures - I have seen a YouTube vid of a chap making them and think I might give it a go, but I am unclear on the actual sizes.

 

Size is H0 or real life will work, ideally face place size and height of pole

 

Thanks

 

Iain

Iain

Pm me your email and I'll send you a drawing I have, I don't have copyright so can't post it here.

[MartinB]

looking at the signaling from my visit a couple of weeks ago, it seems a lot of work to simplify the signaling has happened over the last year or so.

[PaulRhB]

It's the new speed signalling so the aspects are simpler but there's a lot more signals from what I can see.

[Alan L]

On 22/03/2018 at 01:15, PaulRhB said:

Apart from missing the the lower indicator box / shunting allowed signal below the head it's done to cab ride videos from the late 90's. As I was using the Schneider signals that don't offer that option I left it out.

A RhB driver helped with the detail and the bit that was really fudged was the junction to the lower branch which was too close in but that's not on these diagrams.

 

This is an extract from Gion Caprez's help with Rhätia that the diagrams were done from although the junction mentioned isn't on these diagrams as it was fudged

 

"Quote

1-track numbering. Let's assume the track next to the station building and the through track are the original layout. Then a few decades later the fast loop was added. Track numbering would be 1-3 starting next to the station. Track 1 would be reached by a pair of "slow" turnouts like No. 4., while track 3 would have a pair of "fast" turnout like No. 6.

 

2- signal aspects would be "green" for track 2 (entering and leaving), "amber/green" for track 1, "green/green" for track 3. So you would need 4 of the 4 lens signals.

 

3- signals are generally placed on the left hand side (today's standard). But on single lines they are placed where convenient. I would place the signals in the station somewhere between the points and the frog of the outermost turnout, like you did.

 

4- the signalling of the junction is a more difficult matter. You may look at Reichenau as a precedent. The present signaling, installed last year, has speed indications that need a lot of signals. I would suggest something like the previous layout, where the junction is secured by block signals:

"green" indicating passage through the straight track, "green/green" through the diverging track. So the upper signal on your plan would be ok., and the lower one needs another green lens. Then you need to place a signal with "green/red/green" lenses just next to the points for trains running leftward. As a bonus you can wire the station signal to show "amber/amber" when the junction signal is red!

 

5-you need a signal guarding the station entry for trains coming down the loop, again of the 4 lens variety.

Quote"

 

Hard to find the older style on google now, there's a lot of variation Kublis has a three aspect signal into the station but 4 aspect leaving! Finding correct period photos is the only way to be fully accurate. Even signals siting to the left varied a lot with many on the right for sighting.

Images copyright Google

Zernez

 

Zuoz

Second signal added but still keeping four aspect for the green/green

 

Kublis

 

[Alan L]

Was reviewing this information and in the text write up it states that you would need 4 of the 4 lens signals.

The diagram only shows 3. Where would the 4th one be located?

 

Lower right hand corner for train going right to left as it enters the station??

 

Thank you - Alan

[PaulRhB]

Alan, yesthere would be one at the right as you say with a distant too. I omitted them to simplify the diagram so they are ‘off scene’.