The Ballad of "Peter" - Finding an alternate route

[RedGemAlchemist]

I've been having some... issues with a build.

For those unfamiliar with my workbench thread (which is probably most of the people on this site in all seriousness), this is Peter, the No.3 locomotive for my layout, the Kelsby Light Railway. Or rather, it should be. 
This little... thing has been the bane of my existence for the past month or so since I attempted to begin construction on it. It has gone through several iterations but has never managed to get past this point. 
It is supposed to look, roughly, like this:

Herein lies the issue.
Finding a motorised L&Y Pug, Hornby, Dapol or otherwise, for anywhere close to a reasonable price, is difficult to say the least. In fact "immensely frustrating" is probably a more accurate term. And with Hornby looking more and more like it's about to potentially go under totally it's likely only going to get more difficult as time goes on. 
So I come to you, those who are more experienced and talented than I, for help before this little black chunk of plastic makes me lose my mind. Is there an alternative route? Are there any other very small saddle tanks I can use to provide Peter with a cab and chassis for a reasonable price? And that doesn't use that generic Hornby 0-4-0 chassis that goes like the hammers of hell? 

Edited April 4, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[Dickon]

I've been having some... issues with a build.

No.3 WIP.jpg

For those unfamiliar with my workbench thread (which is probably most of the people on this site in all seriousness), this is Peter, the No.3 locomotive for my layout, the Kelsby Light Railway. Or rather, it should be. 

This little... thing has been the bane of my existence for the past month or so since I attempted to begin construction on it. It has gone through several iterations but has never managed to get past this point. 

It is supposed to look, roughly, like this:

No.3 final concept.png

Herein lies the issue.

Finding a motorised L&Y Pug, Hornby, Dapol or otherwise, for anywhere close to a reasonable price, is difficult to say the least. In fact "immensely frustrating" is probably a more accurate term. And with Hornby looking more and more like it's about to potentially go under totally it's likely only going to get more difficult as time goes on. 

So I come to you, those who are more experienced and talented than I, for help before this little black chunk of plastic makes me lose my mind. Is there an alternative route? Are there any other very small saddle tanks I can use to provide Peter with a cab and chassis for a reasonable price? And that doesn't use that generic Hornby 0-4-0 chassis that goes like the hammers of hell? 

The problem with the L&Y pug is its incredibly short chassis and the high cost of working second hand rtr examples. You might think about sourcing the bits you need from an Airfix or Dapol kit and running it coupled to a motorised van.  I know it's not as satisfactory as powering the loco itself but it may be a way  out, even if only a temporary one until a suitable chassis does eventually come your way...

[RedGemAlchemist]

The problem with the L&Y pug is its incredibly short chassis and the high cost of working second hand rtr examples. You might think about sourcing the bits you need from an Airfix or Dapol kit and running it coupled to a motorised van. I know it's not as satisfactory as powering the loco itself but it may be a way out, even if only a temporary one until a suitable chassis does eventually come your way...

Good idea. Only issue is its role in my railway kind of makes running a van behind it awkward. It's meant to be Kelsby's station pilot for the most part. And the short chassis was kind of the appeal as the loco is meant to be tiny.

[Dickon]

Good idea. Only issue is its role in my railway kind of makes running a van behind it awkward. It's meant to be Kelsby's station pilot for the most part. And the short chassis was kind of the appeal as the loco is meant to be tiny.

The tiny size and cheeky nature of the pug are what makes it so attractive.....and consequentially expensive.

[RedGemAlchemist]

The tiny size and cheeky nature of the pug are what makes it so attractive.....and consequentially expensive.

Exactly. Which is why I made this thread. I'm sick of constant failure in finding one and want an appropriate alternative, be it a workaround like what you mentioned Dickon or an alternative locomotive I can use, by Hornby or otherwise. I just want something because this is seriously irritating me. Edited April 5, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[sem34090]

I sometimes regret selling mine in order to help fund a Peckett. I had only bought a couple of months before I sold it, for £35. I managed to sell is for £45, but I personally see that as a very high price for such an old model. The Peckett is much better as a model, and selling the Pug essentially allowed me to buy the Peckett for £40, which is a very good price for a new model of that standard.

 

I sold my pug to Ray Heard model railways, and it was still on their stand last time I saw them (one year on - and it was the same one, I could tell by the marks on the box!) they were selling it at £47, so they had clearly found it so hard to shift that they were only expecting to gain £2 profit out of it.

 

I mention a new loco here, but I am constantly finding that second hand is going up. There is, however, still the occasional bargain to be had so don't give up just yet. I managed to get a Mainline Collett Goods, in a set with wagons track and controller, for £25 last year simply by asking how much it was and the reply being 'however much you have'. I thought £15, or even £20 would be pushing it but I had £30, and I was expecting him to want more than £25. He didn't question it and the set was mine! And the loco's a decent runner. Bargains are increasingly hard to come by, but hang in there mate, you will find something. It may be weeks, it may be months, but if you can get to a show soon then it may be found there.

 

With regards alternatives, the only other small 0-4-0T chassis I can think of are:

 

Bachmann 'Percy'/'Bill'/'Ben'/'Not Percy' Chassis (Quite expensive but a much better option in some ways compared to the Pug. I think it may be DCC ready and the motor doesn't fill the cab. I may not be correct here, but I think that is the case.)

 

Hornby 'Peckett' W4 Chassis (No-Go. Expensive and a bit on the tall side for the body that you're using.

 

Hattons Andrew Barclay Chassis (No-Go. Expensive, and not even released yet)

 

Etched chassis (Etches may be around £25, but you will need wheels and motor, probably a gearbox too, and this all adds a lot of cost. Also, you risk not having a running model at the end. Some people will recommend kit and scratchbuilt chassis on the fact that they are cheaper, but this is generally only applicable if you have built up a stockpile of chassis, gearboxes, motors and other 'bits'. For a lot of us at the younger end of the hobby we don't have that stockpile, and with wheels at £15<, a decent motor anything from £5 upwards, gearboxes at not exactly the lowest prices. You could be looking at £35< just for the bits, and that is a lot of money. It may not seem much, but £35 for a pile of bits which you risk not being able to get a running chassis out of is as good as pouring money down the proverbial drain. I myself want to get to grips with chassis building at some stage, hence why (when I was given a Finecast M7, built but non-running) I am currently looking at chassis designs before committing myself.)

[RedGemAlchemist]

I sometimes regret selling mine in order to help fund a Peckett. I had only bought a couple of months before I sold it, for £35. I managed to sell is for £45, but I personally see that as a very high price for such an old model. The Peckett is much better as a model, and selling the Pug essentially allowed me to buy the Peckett for £40, which is a very good price for a new model of that standard.

 

I sold my pug to Ray Heard model railways, and it was still on their stand last time I saw them (one year on - and it was the same one, I could tell by the marks on the box!) they were selling it at £47, so they had clearly found it so hard to shift that they were only expecting to gain £2 profit out of it.

 

I mention a new loco here, but I am constantly finding that second hand is going up. There is, however, still the occasional bargain to be had so don't give up just yet. I managed to get a Mainline Collett Goods, in a set with wagons track and controller, for £25 last year simply by asking how much it was and the reply being 'however much you have'. I thought £15, or even £20 would be pushing it but I had £30, and I was expecting him to want more than £25. He didn't question it and the set was mine! And the loco's a decent runner. Bargains are increasingly hard to come by, but hang in there mate, you will find something. It may be weeks, it may be months, but if you can get to a show soon then it may be found there.

 

With regards alternatives, the only other small 0-4-0T chassis I can think of are:

 

Bachmann 'Percy'/'Bill'/'Ben'/'Not Percy' Chassis (Quite expensive but a much better option in some ways compared to the Pug. I think it may be DCC ready and the motor doesn't fill the cab. I may not be correct here, but I think that is the case.)

 

Hornby 'Peckett' W4 Chassis (No-Go. Expensive and a bit on the tall side for the body that you're using.

 

Hattons Andrew Barclay Chassis (No-Go. Expensive, and not even released yet)

 

Etched chassis (Etches may be around £25, but you will need wheels and motor, probably a gearbox too, and this all adds a lot of cost. Also, you risk not having a running model at the end. Some people will recommend kit and scratchbuilt chassis on the fact that they are cheaper, but this is generally only applicable if you have built up a stockpile of chassis, gearboxes, motors and other 'bits'. For a lot of us at the younger end of the hobby we don't have that stockpile, and with wheels at £15<, a decent motor anything from £5 upwards, gearboxes at not exactly the lowest prices. You could be looking at £35< just for the bits, and that is a lot of money. It may not seem much, but £35 for a pile of bits which you risk not being able to get a running chassis out of is as good as pouring money down the proverbial drain. I myself want to get to grips with chassis building at some stage, hence why (when I was given a Finecast M7, built but non-running) I am currently looking at chassis designs before committing myself.)

Oof. Ouch. Yeah, that's pretty much destroyed my hopes of ever getting one at all for less than £40 to be honest. I'd love a Peckett but again, money.

Also, me being able to get to a show Can't drive, and live in the middle of nowhere. My chances of getting to a show are limited at best. Only manage to ever get to Norwich because I have a friend who gives me a lift to the train station in Attleborough.

Also of what you've stated that leaves the Bachmann 0-4-0 chassis as the only halfway reasonable option to be honest. That's annoying though that might make me able to have the cab I originally thought of . Price wise though getting anything cheap in a short amount of time is kind of impossible it seems.

I also agree on the etches. Why I exclusively use chassis from RTR locos.

Edited April 5, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[sem34090]

The only other option I can suggest is chopping down either a Hornby 0-4-0 or the earlier triang equivalent, perhaps finding a way (resistors? I'm no electrician!) to tune down the motor without having to spend more than £10, and even that can be a push.

 

On the positive side, the old terrier model seems to be coming heavily down in price now, to less than £30. For an elderly model it isn't too bad, especially at those prices. Hopefully Hornby will reduce theirs down to railroad with a matching price tag, so even a brand new one (old tooling) at RRP will be no more than £45. I know this doesn't help on the 0-4-0 chassis front, but perhaps a terrier could fill the 'station pilot' role for now?

Edited April 5, 2018 by sem34090

[RedGemAlchemist]

The only other option I can suggest is chopping down either a Hornby 0-4-0 or the earlier triang equivalent, perhaps finding a way (resistors? I'm no electrician!) to tune down the motor without having to spend more than £10, and even that can be a push.

 

On the positive side, the old terrier model seems to be coming heavily down in price now, to less than £30. For an elderly model it isn't too bad, especially at those prices. Hopefully Hornby will reduce theirs down to railroad with a matching price tag, so even a brand new one (old tooling) at RRP will be no more than £45. I know this doesn't help on the 0-4-0 chassis front, but perhaps a terrier could fill the 'station pilot' role for now?

Hmm. Might have to if I can't find an answer before I start building the line proper.

[sem34090]

And you say that as if it's a bad thing?!

 

We need more terriers on layouts... and you even had a livery sample produced!

 

On a slightly more serious note, if you wanted something different to a standard terrier, then how about one of the 2-4-0T versions? Or my 2-2-2WT, 0-4-0+0-4-0T or 0-6-0+0-6-0 versions? I am tempted to get myself another terrier at some stage to do the 2-2-2T, maybe not as a WT though.

 

Also, please take note of the correspondence dispatched to Baronet Bradleigh by the WNR from Achingham this afternoon. A Mr E. Missenden has sent some information which may be of interest and assistance.

[RedGemAlchemist]

And you say that as if it's a bad thing?!

 

We need more terriers on layouts... and you even had a livery sample produced!

 

On a slightly more serious note, if you wanted something different to a standard terrier, then how about one of the 2-4-0T versions? Or my 2-2-2WT, 0-4-0+0-4-0T or 0-6-0+0-6-0 versions? I am tempted to get myself another terrier at some stage to do the 2-2-2T, maybe not as a WT though.

 

Also, please take note of the correspondence dispatched to Baronet Bradleigh by the WNR from Achingham this afternoon. A Mr E. Missenden has sent some information which may be of interest and assistance.

Was more that I was trying to keep to a theme. I like the Terrier but on a line intended to use Eastern design practice it's hard to justify it to myself. I'm sorry, I'm just weird like that. I can only just get away with the 14xx.

Though with some modifications a 2-4-0 or 2-2-2 would be fun.

And I will. Just waiting until I'm at a keyboard.

[sem34090]

You have post from Castle Aching, M'lud.

[RedGemAlchemist]

Update: still no luck on any front.

[kernowtim]

The latest Smokey Joes / caley pug / gwr 101 are surprisingly good runners at low speed and the top speed is reduced, even more so with dcc!! May be worth trying. For some reason a gwr 101 , named Truro ;-) runs slower than the 2 pugs!!

Edited April 7, 2018 by kernowtim

[RedGemAlchemist]

Hmm. Really all I want is a small 0-4-0 saddle tank, a little shorter than a Triang Nellie (as to be smaller than No.1 Bulldog), that runs well at low speed and looks good to be my station pilot for Kelsby. As always, the end result is more important than how I get there. 

[sem34090]

I'll also vouch for the latest 0-4-0 chassis, especially given how cheap brand new ones are on hattons. They used to have some on there for around £15, but I fear these have gone.

[RedGemAlchemist]

I'll also vouch for the latest 0-4-0 chassis, especially given how cheap brand new ones are on hattons. They used to have some on there for around £15, but I fear these have gone.

Hmm. I've got a few Hornby 0-4-0 chassis sitting around but I fear they may be too old. I'll have to test them when I get my test run set up.

[RedGemAlchemist]

I am a very happy bunny.
Thanks to a tip-off from OliverSR I am now the proud owner of 1 running Dapol Pug.

THE QUEST IS COMPLETE.

Edited April 9, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[Dickon]

Hmm. I've got a few Hornby 0-4-0 chassis sitting around but I fear they may be too old. I'll have to test them when I get my test run set up.

 

Hi Red. 

 

Given that you are looking for a short wheelbase for Peter have you considered shortening the wheelbase on a Hornby chassis.  Londontram explains how he did in in post #113 of the pug bash thread.  The 33 mm wheelbase of the minus the 4 or 5 mm to the hole he found in front of the back axle would give you 28 or 29 mm.  I know that's not quite as short as the L&Y loco but it would be considerably cheaper and what's 3 or 4 mm in a freelance?  It's the general character of the thing that counts not the number of rivets holding it together.

[RedGemAlchemist]

Hi Red.

 

Given that you are looking for a short wheelbase for Peter have you considered shortening the wheelbase on a Hornby chassis. Londontram explains how he did in in post #113 of the pug bash thread. The 33 mm wheelbase of the minus the 4 or 5 mm to the hole he found in front of the back axle would give you 28 or 29 mm. I know that's not quite as short as the L&Y loco but it would be considerably cheaper and what's 3 or 4 mm in a freelance? It's the general character of the thing that counts not the number of rivets holding it together.

Hmm. I've got a Pug now (see my last post) but thanks. I'll definitely remember that for next time though, save me a lot of hassle.

[LNWR18901910]

I've been having some... issues with a build.

No.3 WIP.jpg

For those unfamiliar with my workbench thread (which is probably most of the people on this site in all seriousness), this is Peter, the No.3 locomotive for my layout, the Kelsby Light Railway. Or rather, it should be. 

This little... thing has been the bane of my existence for the past month or so since I attempted to begin construction on it. It has gone through several iterations but has never managed to get past this point. 

It is supposed to look, roughly, like this:

No.3 final concept.png

Herein lies the issue.

Finding a motorised L&Y Pug, Hornby, Dapol or otherwise, for anywhere close to a reasonable price, is difficult to say the least. In fact "immensely frustrating" is probably a more accurate term. And with Hornby looking more and more like it's about to potentially go under totally it's likely only going to get more difficult as time goes on. 

So I come to you, those who are more experienced and talented than I, for help before this little black chunk of plastic makes me lose my mind. Is there an alternative route? Are there any other very small saddle tanks I can use to provide Peter with a cab and chassis for a reasonable price? And that doesn't use that generic Hornby 0-4-0 chassis that goes like the hammers of hell? 

He looks like Percy the Small Engine. Nice model, though.

[RedGemAlchemist]

He looks like Percy the Small Engine. Nice model, though.

Thanks. Then again, Percy is supposedly inspired by the GWR's 1340 Trojan which is a similar Avonside tank, so that's hardly surprising

If you need a Percy, you're more than free to use the concept. There's a simpler and slightly cleaner version on the newest post of my concept library. Credit goes to Captainalbino more than me though, his similar idea which he used to build a model of the aforementioned Trojan was instrumental in both concepts. I merely simplified his idea.

Edited April 10, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist