JSpencer Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 I appear to have forgotten the golden rule of Humbrol matt varnish when I was using it last night - use lots of very light coats otherwise it turns white and you get a poor finish! This is one of those rare occasions where the photo actually makes it look better than it is. I think I might have to turn this model into a weathering test to try and hide the finish as I don't really want to start painting it all over again. WP_001353.jpg Very nice. Have you ever found a photo of an R1 in this livery? It was so short lived that very few locos that therefore very few classes had a loco in the livery. I've only ever seen 69 in Wainwright livery and others in grey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted April 27, 2018 Author Share Posted April 27, 2018 Very nice. Have you ever found a photo of an R1 in this livery? It was so short lived that very few locos that therefore very few classes had a loco in the livery. I've only ever seen 69 in Wainwright livery and others in grey. No I haven't, in all likelihood it was used but not for long enough for anyone to bother photographing it. The only reference I have is for 323 on the Bluebell railway carrying it, so I don't really know how accurate the colour is. I'm not too bothered about prototypical accuracy for this model though as it's more of a test exercise and I just wanted to have a go at a more rare livery. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted April 28, 2018 Author Share Posted April 28, 2018 Weathering done, and I think I've redeemed myself somewhat. This is only the third thing I've ever tried to weather, and the first locomotive, so I'm quite pleased with how it's turned out. The transfers were very faded anyway, so it don't think it would have looked right pristine, even if I hadn't cocked up the varnish. The loco got several washes of black acrylic, then some black weathering powder over the chimney, boiler top and cab roof, so it was a very simple job too. The conrod hasn't been weathered yet as it's fresh out of a box from Shapeways that arrived this morning, more on the contents of that delivery in a future post... 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted April 30, 2018 Author Share Posted April 30, 2018 So the Shapeways order has arrived, the first part of it being the refined cab detail piece designed for use with the 3D printed chassis - obviously it won't work with the original motor as it's designed to clear the wheels and gears I'm planning to use. Unfortunately I don't have any reference for what the control layout should be, so it's basic detail only. The part also fills in the holes under the front cab windows, one of the more obvious weaknesses of the Dublo/Wrenn body. This should hopefully make detailing the R1s a lot easier, which is just as well as I have a few to do! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted May 3, 2018 Author Share Posted May 3, 2018 The second part of the Shapeways order was the chassis itself, not looking too bad for a first go! It comes with conrods and body mounts attached which have to be cut off before painting and assembly. The photos show the chassis compared to the basic test model (in black) and next to an R1 body with the cab detail part and body mounts attached - M2 captive nuts fit into the mounts so the chassis can be bolted to the body. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 At first look seems to be very promising, Are you going to use brass axle bearings ? what motor and gears is it designed to use ? coupling rods may be better in metal ? As I said a promising development Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted May 3, 2018 Author Share Posted May 3, 2018 At first look seems to be very promising, Are you going to use brass axle bearings ? what motor and gears is it designed to use ? coupling rods may be better in metal ? As I said a promising development Thanks The chassis is designed to use Markits bearings, a scale-link 60:1 gearset, mitsumi 030 motor (cheap and widely available) and a flywheel. Not decided on the flywheel size yet, probably a 15mm one on this model as I think this is the biggest that will fit. The conrods would be more robust in metal, but the issue there is that it is very difficult to accurately make conrods with the exact same dimensions as the chassis wheelbase - at least with the limited equipment I have. I have had this issue before when trying to fit RTR conrods to a 3D printed chassis on another project, they need to be almost perfectly aligned to work properly. The 3D printed ones are quite flexible in the lateral direction but since all the forces will be in the longitudinal direction I think it should be fine, provided they are handled carefully when building the chassis - this is why I'm testing it! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 The conrods would be more robust in metal, but the issue there is that it is very difficult to accurately make conrods with the exact same dimensions as the chassis wheelbase - at least with the limited equipment I have. I have had this issue before when trying to fit RTR conrods to a 3D printed chassis on another project, they need to be almost perfectly aligned to work properly. The 3D printed ones are quite flexible in the lateral direction but since all the forces will be in the longitudinal direction I think it should be fine, provided they are handled carefully when building the chassis - this is why I'm testing it! Personally I think metal coupling rods are essential, there are 2 options 1 Design the chassis to fit a commercially available set 2 Buy a set of Alan Gibson universal coupling rods using the 3D ones as the forma I also have s suspicion that the meshing of the gears may be an issue, perhaps a design using a thin etched motor mount or gearbox may give better results Still the chassis looks very good, which is a good first step Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted May 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 4, 2018 (edited) I'm not sure that just meshing the gears in the chassis will be accurate enough, as the WSF has a bit of 'flex'. This chassis was for a 4-4-0 (GN G1 tank) The bearings were epoxied in (wouldn't take cyano/superglue) and the motor is with a high level box which the chassis and body was designed around. For the pick ups all I could come up with was to put bolts through the chassis then solder the pick ups to those, it actually works well. (ignore the excess wire, just testing) The rods are Gibson and the chassis was again designed around the availability of suitable parts. The least you can do with WSF that requires glue the better. Edited May 4, 2018 by chris p bacon 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Personally I think metal coupling rods are essential, there are 2 options 1 Design the chassis to fit a commercially available set 2 Buy a set of Alan Gibson universal coupling rods using the 3D ones as the forma I also have s suspicion that the meshing of the gears may be an issue, perhaps a design using a thin etched motor mount or gearbox may give better results Still the chassis looks very good, which is a good first step Metal rods are probably not crucial - BUT I would suggest metal bushes in the holes or the crankpins will wear through the plastic in next to no time ! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted May 4, 2018 Author Share Posted May 4, 2018 Metal rods are probably not crucial - BUT I would suggest metal bushes in the holes or the crankpins will wear through the plastic in next to no time ! I have a plan for that, involving tiny lengths of brass tube. We'll see if it works as the build progresses... The bearings were epoxied in (wouldn't take cyano/superglue) and the motor is with a high level box which the chassis and body was designed around. For the pick ups all I could come up with was to put bolts through the chassis then solder the pick ups to those, it actually works well. (ignore the excess wire, just testing) The rods are Gibson and the chassis was again designed around the availability of suitable parts. The least you can do with WSF that requires glue the better. The first trial seems to indicate that the bushings will be push-fit, I agree that the less glue used the better, although I have managed to get superglue to work before, just seems to need much longer to set than normal. Pickups are planned to be DCC Concepts ones intended for adding lighting to coaches, although I may have to rethink this as they seem to add a lot of friction. With regards to the flex issue affecting the mesh, the box of the chassis is actually pretty rigid, but the motor mount itself might need a bit more strengthening. I'll be painting and assembling it hopefully over the weekend if I have time, so we'll find out pretty soon! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted May 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 4, 2018 The first trial seems to indicate that the bushings will be push-fit, I agree that the less glue used the better, although I have managed to get superglue to work before, just seems to need much longer to set than normal. I've tried several makes of superglue with different consistencies but none of them worked out well, In the end I managed to get 5 minute epoxy to take and it's still ok. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted May 4, 2018 Author Share Posted May 4, 2018 I've tried several makes of superglue with different consistencies but none of them worked out well, In the end I managed to get 5 minute epoxy to take and it's still ok. I've only really used it on non-structural, low-stress stuff like handrail knobs and lamp irons, never for any mechanical parts, so it might not be as good as I thought. I'll have to track down some epoxy then! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Thanks The chassis is designed to use Markits bearings, a scale-link 60:1 gearset, mitsumi 030 motor (cheap and widely available) and a flywheel. Not decided on the flywheel size yet, probably a 15mm one on this model as I think this is the biggest that will fit. WP_001367.jpg Looks like gear meshing will be a problem if you have the worm right at the end of the motor shaft giving lots of scope for flexing. Personally I would have thought a metal gearbox with bearings for axle and motor shaft would have been needed to take the strain off the plastic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted May 4, 2018 Author Share Posted May 4, 2018 Looks like gear meshing will be a problem if you have the worm right at the end of the motor shaft giving lots of scope for flexing. Personally I would have thought a metal gearbox with bearings for axle and motor shaft would have been needed to take the strain off the plastic. Sorry, that photo is slightly misleading - the worm isn't actually fitted yet! It's a very tight fit, so needs drilling out slightly before I can fit it properly, but it will go much closer to the body of the motor so I don't think there will be any issues with flex or vibration from the motor itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted May 9, 2018 Author Share Posted May 9, 2018 Once primer was on, the chassis had a (very) quick sanding before painting in Humbrol crimson - I was hoping this would pass for SECR red, but it was far too purple-y (see second photo). Adding a load of yellow and repainting, it is now much better, although probably still a little dark. Assembly has also started and is going very well so far, the bearing are push-fit as planned and pickups line up well, although the one under the cab could probably do with being further down - photos of the build will come later as my phone camera doesn't want to play right now. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted May 11, 2018 Author Share Posted May 11, 2018 Wheels on, still fits nicely under the Wrenn body. Takes a little bit of wiggling to get the axles to rotate freely but once everything is lined up, it works well. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Do they rotate freely when the coupling rods are fitted ? How is the motor meshing coming along ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted May 11, 2018 Author Share Posted May 11, 2018 Do they rotate freely when the coupling rods are fitted ? How is the motor meshing coming along ? Motor fitting was on the list to do tonight, that may now be delayed a little as I'm too busy to get any modelling time over the weekend. I don't actually have a set of coupling rods available at the moment as I used the ones from this chassis on the test chassis (under the green loco in previous posts). So I'm going to order a new set with the R class cab when I've finished designing that. I also need to fit the Romford crankpins and paint the wheels first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted May 13, 2018 Author Share Posted May 13, 2018 Building a CAD model immediately after returning from a stag do might not seem like the most sensible idea, but checking it over this morning, I haven't done too badly. The part has been ordered for printing and includes the R class cab conversion, safety valves, steam reverser and spare conrods so I can experiment with them. The cab should fit the Wrenn body but is designed to sit slightly further back than the original to reduce the oversized bunker and allow for a slightly longer boiler. This also makes the cab side windows more central like on the real thing. My theory is that Dublo moved the cab forward so they wouldn't have to extend the protrusions on top of the boiler that hide the motor, since I'm remotoring it anyway I don't have to work around that issue. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted May 15, 2018 Author Share Posted May 15, 2018 Wheels painted and attached, with a slightly clumsy attempt at lining. It looks better in real life! Still need to clean up the treads, but I can now move on to motorising it. 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted May 22, 2018 Author Share Posted May 22, 2018 The chassis is now motorised and the pickups wired in. If I'd been more clever about it, I would have wired the motor before installing it so the wires didn't have to go over the top. Runs quite nicely too, equally good in both directions and not too loud. Connecting rods will be next, but exams are taking up all my free time at the moment so it may be a while. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted May 22, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 22, 2018 Hi Tom, looking good there. Just a quick tip on cleaning the wheel treads (which works for me, anyway), is to put one wheel at a time, mounted on its axle, in an electric drill and turn at high speed, using a cotton bud dampened with cellulose thinners on the wheel treads. This should give a nice, crisp edge between the painted wheel front and the metal wheel treads. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted May 26, 2018 Author Share Posted May 26, 2018 Looking at the model so far, I think I'll have to concede defeat on the colour front, especially if I'm trying to match the Humbrol colour of transfers. Phoenix paints duly ordered, at slightly eye-watering expense! Also working on the Conrods, fitting brass sleeves inside the printed parts should make them nice and robust, as well as free-rotating. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted May 29, 2018 Author Share Posted May 29, 2018 The body has started to be modified and detailed, the first stage is to get rid of all the oversized details and errors on the Wrenn body. So its been attacked with a knife and a Dremel to remove the under-boiler section, the moulded coal load, the motor bulge in front of the cab and all the handrails and lamp irons, as well as any moulding seams I could find. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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