Vintage 0 gauge wagon ID

[Il Grifone]

I spotted this wagon on eBay recently (at a rather silly price considering its condition).

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/O-GAUGE-KIT-BUILT-LMS-WAGON-PLEASE-SEE-BELOW/112862878682?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

Years ago I acquired a similar wagon (in rather better condition) in grey and lettered LMS together with a MR van which is missing an end (I keep meaning to build it a new one...).

 

I suspect they are Bond's, but I'm sure someone here knows better and can quote chapter and verse.

 

Many thanks in advance!   

 

I'll try and dig them out and post a picture, but I am in the (slow) process of retiling the bathroom....

 

EDIT This could be another one, but the 'ironwork' is rather cruder than on mine.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNKNOWN-MAKE-KIT-BUILT-O-GAUGE-WAGON-PLEASE-SEE-BELOW-1/112919257213?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D49138%26meid%3Df01ebcd3b52b4f45a19414430739876e%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D112862878682%26itm%3D112919257213&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

 

I forgot to mention that the surviving buffers on mine are oval in shape (as in track oval, rather than elliptical). I did find some replacements but have still to fit them (one has broken due to zinc pest).

Edited April 9, 2018 by Il Grifone

[hayfield]

I have picked up 3 or 4  rolling stock items made from wood which I believe were made either from early kits, or commercially made parts added to scratch built bodies

 

Bonds of Euston come to mind, as does CCW, ERG. Castings were quite common, as was strapping and corner plates (from brass or ali)

 

I have a CCW catalogue from the late 50's showing a few loco and wagon kits, plus many spare parts

[Nearholmer]

I think it might be Millbro, by the shape of the one remaining headstock and the sheet metal support for the W-irons, but I wouldn't claim that to be definitive. It might be another maker, or a ki/scratch build using commercial parts.

 

Wide oval buffers are often a hallmark of LMC, but they sold parts separately, and others may have made them too.

 

One thing is for sure - it's overpriced!

 

The second one linked to is a very iffy scratchbuild using similar commercial parts.

 

I've got a few wooden wagons, and if I get time later will photograph the undersides of some for you.

 

Kevin

Edited April 9, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Il Grifone]

Many thanks!

 

I discounted LMC as their stock was made using litho covered solid bodies AFAIK. I could be wrong. I believe their post war production included plastic (bakelite?).

 

This (the first one - scratchbuild seems likely for the second one) is almost identical to mine (it's stashed away somewhere so I can't speak for the headstocks) so I would think it's a commercial production. The general quality also suggests this - my one attempt at an end for the van was quickly abandoned....

 

They have 3 link couplings - not the best to couple to the rest of my collection (mainly Hornby, but there are some Bing and Märklin items and a solitary examples of Lima (mineral wagon) and B/L (post war timber wagon). 

[Nearholmer]

Leeds made both 'wood and metal' and 'wood, metal, and litho' before they made Bakelite, the latter starting c1937.

 

The Dutch HRCA website has the best photo archive of examples http://www.dutchhrca.nl/lmcw.htm

 

I still get deeply confused between the products of all the "old" makers, and it is especially challenging because, just like now, home-builders mixed-up bits from several suppliers, throwing in a bit of scratchbuilding, either when they originally built things, or when carrying out later repairs or improvements. And, some of the commercial suppliers built so few things that their 'standard recipe' isn't well-known, if indeed they had one!

 

I suspect that the encyclopaedic knowledge of who made what castings and other bits over seventy years ago is fast dying out!

 

Kevin

Edited April 9, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Il Grifone]

It would appear that LMC produced much more than I thought.

 

So I did a search on the net and came up with this:

 

http://www.milbromodelrailways.co.uk/page_3074501.html#wagonrecognition

 

Both my wagons appear on the lists at the bottom of the site. It would appear that the conclusive (?) evidence is double sided impressed planking on the wooden sides. I will have to dig them out and check. It would appear that there was a certain amount of collaboration between the two companies (which would explain the LMC buffers). IIRC they have solid metal spoked wheels.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Il Grifone