Jol Wilkinson Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 I've no idea about such things, but introducing a website called something along the lines of "Coopercraft - A warning" that appears at the top of a Google search may work wonders. With the only content being the fact that a County Court Judgement has been made, and also a link to certain Railway Modelling Forum threads..... But as is usually the case, a great idea but is there a volunteer to set it up and fund it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 But as is usually the case, a great idea but is there a volunteer to set it up and fund it? Well volunteered, that man! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Well volunteered, that man! Sorry, can't do. I'm retired and don't have the time. I find myself being volunteered for a number of other activities by my wife, her family and the proprietor of a certain 4mm kit supplier. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted April 21, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2018 Doing a quick Google Search for just the name 'Coopercraft' got these hits. The first 3 are the site itself, then a car restoration then the Warning thread from RMweb followed in 8th by another from Scaleforum in 2015 where they also highlight problems. Hopefully the warning thread will be pushed a little higher up the search results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted April 21, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2018 (edited) Here is the thread from Scalefour forum. It started as a well intentioned effort at helping Coopercraft but seems to have died a natural in 2015. https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4337 Edited April 21, 2018 by Colin_McLeod Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted April 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 21, 2018 I've no idea about such things, but introducing a website called something along the lines of "Coopercraft - A warning" that appears at the top of a Google search may work wonders. With the only content being the fact that a County Court Judgement has been made, and also a link to certain Railway Modelling Forum threads..... That won't get around the problem of people searching for Slater's wagons, Blacksmith Models or the like. They will not be drawn to a Coopercraft warning site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Sorry, can't do. I'm retired and don't have the time. I find myself being volunteered for a number of other activities by my wife, her family and the proprietor of a certain 4mm kit supplier. ....plus an elderly MGB? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted April 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 21, 2018 One thing this thread highlights is that the law to a large degree relies on us all being self policing. If you decide to opt out then an unscrupulous person can exploit the system very effectively and operate with seeming impunity if they remain within certain boundaries as they fall below various thresholds, exploit restrictions in recovery systems and know that the cost of seeking redress through the courts is probably too much to make it worth the effort, especially if people know that a court decision in their favour effectively means nothing in reality. These people are making a mockery of the system and laughing at it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 ....plus an elderly MGB? Yes, that's todays activity. Going back to Coopercraft and a "warning" website, sadly it is easy for people to suggest a good idea, less easy to get someone to do it. I fear that, outside the appalling situation where money is being/has been taken with no supply of ordered items, that the manufacturing side of Cooper Craft products is over. I believe, from conversations within "the trade", that some or all of the moulds may have been modified to fit the different machine that Paul Dunn owns. That may have made them unusable, even if he were to purchase the same type of machine they were originally designed for. These, I am told, can be picked up for a relatively small amount. I also understand that help was offered to Paul Dunn to help overcome these manufacturing problems, but that he declined it The Slaters products may have been the subject of a "marketing" agreement, and the production seems to have remained with Slaters so there is some hope there. Etched items, such as the Blacksmith range, can be ordered by Paul Dunn from the etchers, so those could continue to be available, although w/m castings to go with them seem to be unobtainable. Jol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 This has appeared on the S4 forum: https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=60616#p60616 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 This has appeared on the S4 forum: https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=60616#p60616 If that's who I think it is, he could at least spell the name of his own range correctly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted April 23, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 23, 2018 I did think the bit on the first page of the website may have been new (spelt wrong there too). Now we know where the owed money may have gone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 The business might just about to have some assets, though have we not been promised a repaired/new machine was in the offing before ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharris Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) I noticed that Cooper Craft (or Copper Craft, come to that!) doesn't appear in the Expo EM traders list for the first time this year (although he was listed for Scaleforum North). Have at least some of the powers that be finally noticed that he's persona non grata around here? Edited April 23, 2018 by sharris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted April 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 23, 2018 What, so the latest possible twist in this sorry saga is that although he can't repay his debts to customers he can afford to buy a new moulding machine? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meil Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) If you look up who Great Western Man is you find it is Paul Dunn! Time to get the Bailiffs lined up. Edited April 23, 2018 by meil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) The ScaleFour Forum post form Paul Dunn, albeit under a nom de plume, says "A replacement reconditioned machine is on order, and hopefully in the next few months the Copper Craft, Mailcoach and Kirk LNER coaches will start coming back out again. Also please note that the EM newsletter 216 is incorrect as the Kirk LNER kits haven't been sold, and will still form part of the Copper Craft range of kits." The business might just about to have some assets, though have we not been promised a repaired/new machine was in the offing before ? Very true, but this is the first time that mention of a "new" machine has been made. Odd that it has taken so long, unless he has recently received a windfall (and probably rather more than the payments he has received and not returned) What, so the latest possible twist in this sorry saga is that although he can't repay his debts to customers he can afford to buy a new moulding machine? See above. It should put him an a position to fulfil outstanding orders. I wonder how long it would then be before we start to overlook this saga and start buying CC, Mail Coach and Ian Kirk kits again, when there is no alternative product available. Most regrettable that he didn't take this course earlier and avoided all the ill feeling and bad publicity. Edited April 23, 2018 by Jol Wilkinson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted April 23, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 23, 2018 If that's who I think it is, he could at least spell the name of his own range correctly. Oh, I don't know. If his forum name there is Great Westen Man, I think Coppercraft fits just fine. It also accords with remarks earlier in this thread suggesting he may not be the most educated man on the planet. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted April 23, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 23, 2018 What, so the latest possible twist in this sorry saga is that although he can't repay his debts to customers he can afford to buy a new moulding machine? If you look up who Great Western Man is you find it is Paul Dunn! Time to get the Bailiffs lined up. So you'd rather 'grab' his new moulding machine and stop him re-establishing the range of kits mentioned, rather than wait a bit and see if he manages to make some money that he can then use to repay his creditors? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted April 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) I do wonder whether the resolution of matters with Slater's - if, reading between the lines, that is what has happened - has eased matters. But this is pure speculation on my part which I'm only posting because this is the current Co(op)percraft thread... Edited April 23, 2018 by Compound2632 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted April 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 23, 2018 So you'd rather 'grab' his new moulding machine and stop him re-establishing the range of kits mentioned, rather than wait a bit and see if he manages to make some money that he can then use to repay his creditors? I think that is a false dichotomy. The sums he owes to persons will be quite modest given the nature of the kits he purports to produce. We have had a rather full and detailed account of the efforts of one person to reclaim money owed, including court proceedings, use of bailiffs and even assistance from a newspaper contributor, and I have no reason to doubt that story or the others on the long thread which was closed. Therefore he legally owes money and has evaded paying in spite of at least one court judgement. Therefore how can he now pay the considerable sum needed to buy a moulding machine if he can't pay his creditors? If he has the money to invest in his business then he has the money to repay his creditors. Whether I'd like to see his kits re-appear is irrelevant really, it is a simple matter that if you owe money then you repay that money before opening the cheque book to spend for your own benefit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 A bit more gossip ... when I was at S4N I overheard a conversation which was about Coopercraft's attendance at the show. Now I can't vouch for the overheard chat but it was the general opinion that Coopercraft's invite was withdrawn because the society didn't want to get involved in any possible legal proceedings or run the risks of reputational damage by appearing to be associated with Coopercraft. Might just be tittle-tattle but on the other hand. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 So you'd rather 'grab' his new moulding machine and stop him re-establishing the range of kits mentioned, rather than wait a bit and see if he manages to make some money that he can then use to repay his creditors? In an ideal world no one would like to grab anything, I doubt if this machine will appear as there have been statements in the past about machines which never materialised. Stock will be more valuable than the machine, but at the end of the day there are many who are owed money, I expect they would rather have the goods and if he intends to honour these outstanding orders, he should at least be in contact with his creditors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 I think, on principle, IF there is a new machine and kits start being produced again, I would prefer to avoid them. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted April 23, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 23, 2018 A bit more gossip ... when I was at S4N I overheard a conversation which was about Coopercraft's attendance at the show. Now I can't vouch for the overheard chat but it was the general opinion that Coopercraft's invite was withdrawn because the society didn't want to get involved in any possible legal proceedings or run the risks of reputational damage by appearing to be associated with Coopercraft. Might just be tittle-tattle but on the other hand. I don't think they wanted blood stains on the floor actually. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts